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21 Aug 2014 16:33 by nitram Star rating in castalla. 172 posts Send private message

Just had our AGM and new president elected, (like pulling teeth) as you will all know volunteers no, names in hat no, next plot and no, alphabetical order no.

After votes taken next alphabetical order was voted in. minutes sent out, now 1 week later newly elected president said he has got family issues and not going to do job, so next step at community’s expense court action.

Has anybody been down this road ¿ and what were the costs ¿ and how long did it take for judge to rule on it, what court did you go to ¿ could we use our local court in our town ¿

Thank you in advance





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21 Aug 2014 17:08 by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

Why should anyone  be forced to take on this burden?





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21 Aug 2014 17:42 by nitram Star rating in castalla. 172 posts Send private message

23 Aug 2014 10:19 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Why should anyone  be forced to take on this burden?

Well as they say someone must do it, so if no one volunteers what are they to do? And I think Nitram said it was a very small community with very few communal areas so it cannot be an enormous task.

I was a reluctant president of a community of 24 dwellings with just a swimming pool. It was pretty easy, even though at the time I could not speak Spanish.  After the first year I was happy to continue until I sold and moved.





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23 Aug 2014 13:03 by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

People don't move to Spain to take on responsibilities they don't want.

they move for a better less stressful life

let those who like being in charge take it  on, eg ex teachers, council leaders, military etc.

if no one will take it on, then the council should step in.





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23 Aug 2014 13:19 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

"if no one will take it on, then the council should step in."

 Camposol, Sorry but I guess you are having a bad day.

There is no legislation for anyone, including a Municipality, to take over. 

The Horizontal Property Law is quite specific.  It applied when they bought.

And yes I agree that people do not come to Spain to get lumbered,  but that is what they chose to do when they buy a property in a Community.  If they now realise that was a mistake then they have the solution, sell up, albeit they may lose money.  Or they could I suppose pay someone to do the job for them, like say an abogado, although I think they would still carry the can if anything went wrong, or the community were to be sued.  They could also give Power of Attorney, then the person they pay, could also sign for them (useful for a person who does not live in Spain) even though they would continue to have the responsibilities and liabilities that being president carry..

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 23/08/2014.



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23 Aug 2014 14:03 by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

Thank God our urbanisationtion  is run by the council!

 





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23 Aug 2014 14:26 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Camposol, I am curious. When you say your ‘urbanisation’   I guess you mean you live in a villa which is on a public road, so not part of a community.

I used to be in that situation as far as the road was concerned, so the municipality paid for road maintenance, lighting etc.,  but I was still in a community re communal  land, so we still had a President.





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23 Aug 2014 14:31 by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

It is like a large community, of about 5000 villas, but there was opposition to an entity,  and as it is so big, the council will gradually take each sector over.





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23 Aug 2014 14:34 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

When you say the municipality will take over, do that mean you have a community (or several) but the municipality will take over the public areas, as was my case.





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23 Aug 2014 15:04 by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

Yes, eventually.

i think most people buying in a community do not realise what they might be lumbered with.

to me a president would need to be very experienced in the sort of areas involved, legal etc

How on earth can the average expat, who's moved out to Spain, for a relaxing environment be supposed to cope with all that?





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23 Aug 2014 15:32 by nitram Star rating in castalla. 172 posts Send private message

Disagree i´m afraid, so what you are saying is that millions of millions of Spanish national´s are Legal experts ¿.

 

I have just looked at a Community Forum all Spanish and there was two questions from different people,

1) I am 85 years old and the rotation has just come around for President and it´s me do i have to do it answer from  a legal person Yes.

2) I have got a heart problem i can´t be President court ruling yes you can.

So if your old or have a medical problem not a trained person whats stopping and what stops anybody, ex-pat or not from doing the job ¿.

I dont see how the council can run a urbanization ¿, yes we are lucky we dont have roads, pavements, street lights, green areas to look after, however we do have Communal Elements, Wall´s internal road and lights, T.V ariel, and thats it budget for 43 property´s 600euros a year 15 euros a year per property.

Yes some expats are not used to a Community, but ask yourself, has anybody lived in a block of flats in the U.K and had to pay a managment fee i.e for gardens, lighting,garages private roads etc what is the differance non, and the management of the flats never consuted the owners they do as they pease.





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23 Aug 2014 15:33 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Most communities are of sufficient size to be able to financially support an administrator.   Thus all the legal work is undertaken by them, on behalf of, but supervised by, the president.

 I now live in an apartment block.   I also own a lock up garage in another community, my son owns three properties in other communities   . All have an administration.  That is the norm. 

Occasionally one might have a president who is capable and willing to do the lot.

In big communities there are often vice presidents and maybe a committee, sub committees etc. 

I just took brief look at Camposol on ‘Street View Google Earth’.   It appears that you do not have community land/property, if that is the case then the Municipality could take over.  However, if there were apartment blocks, or private land,  they could not take those over, no more than a council could do in UK, if they were privately owned..





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23 Aug 2014 17:39 by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

What I am saying is not about the actual administration, but about how a president is elected

I cannot see why anyone can be forced to do it against their will , however easy or difficult the job is

who can  be happy doing a job they never wanted to or asked for





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23 Aug 2014 17:51 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

I cannot see why anyone can be forced to do it against their will

It's because that’s what they signed up to when they signed the contract before the Notary,  when they bought the property.  They also signed to pay the community charges etc .Just because they don’t like it now does not annul their contract.

It was  the same as when they signed the contract for the electricity, i.e.  they must pay for what they use, or the IBI, they must pay the town hall taxes.

Sorry but it's not rocket science

PS sorry for repeating what I have said but you keep asking the same question

 

 


 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 23/08/2014.



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23 Aug 2014 18:41 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

I have little sympathy for the consequences property buyers suffer in Spain. They do not research the difficulties and obligations sufficiently. They think British values and laws apply in a foreign state. Then when called upon to make a contribution they run for cover and seek to pass the buck.

Spain has historically always been a country apart from mainstream Europeans values. It is slowly changing  but like everything else substantial it takes many generations.

The HPA is a sensible method of separation between the disparity of incomes, cultural values and available capital resources of foreigners. It relieves the Spanish from the political difficulties of dealing with the inhabitants of expat urbanisations.

In my view it was one of the most sensible pieces of legislation the Spanish have ever produced.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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23 Aug 2014 18:47 by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

Johnzx, I have no problem paying for utilities, community  charges etc.

I just don't think anyone should be press ganged into being president!





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23 Aug 2014 22:44 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

hugh_man´s avatar

Local Councils may be ok at emptying your bins, ensuring you have street lights and maintaining roads but they would draw the line at maintaining any Community facilities such as gardens, pools, lifts, community satellite dish etc.

Not an ideal solution but Spanish HPA is not very different to Community living anywhere else in the world, owners form a Community and elect a President or a Board of Directors to oversee its affairs.

in actual fact many new developments in the UK are now set up with their own management companies and responsibilities.

management companies or Administrators should carry out every day running of a Community wherever it is.

if owners are not prepared to accept the task they cannot complain about any measures they disagree with.

 

as has been previously stated, buying in Spain or elsewhere means we accept certain responsibilities.





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24 Aug 2014 08:10 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Yes that's correct Hugh_Man. However in Spain the difference is the community committee and president have specific legal powers and responsibility under the HPA legislation. Enforceable with financial penalties when things go wrong.

That fact gives them a status way beyond community associations in the UK. 



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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24 Aug 2014 16:39 by acer Star rating. 1391 posts Send private message

Camposol, perhaps your view is coloured by your particular urb.  No disrespect but I reckon finding you've been elected as President of Camposol would be a nightmare situation (with the occasional subsidence and disappearing bridge etc!).  At best it would be a full time job.  But in reality a professional administrator would be an absolute must, so might be a survivable experience.

But smaller urbs should be straighforward - so long as it's been well managed in the past.  And it's part of what you signed up for when you bought so comments like those of Nitrams are a bit misplaced.

In UK I own a flat in a block of 16.  We were getting rooked by a corrupt freeholder so 7 years ago I helped organise a buy-out.  We all pitched in to buy the freehold and now we manage the place ourselves...except I actually do it, but it's a doddle, probably not that dissimilar to being President of an urb in Spain.

In Spain some larger urbs pay their Presidents, or discount their community fees, so not all bad.



_______________________
Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.



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