When it comes to buying a property, whose side is the agent on?

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03 Sep 2013 20:41 by kelju Star rating in South Yorkshire . 302 posts Send private message

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Do agents agents hold out to get the best price for the person selling the property (thus getting maximum commission), or are they keen to agree a price with the purchaser that will ensure a sale - stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap?

just wondered

Kelju





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03 Sep 2013 21:04 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

Where England or Spain? Because they work differently, one charges a per cent based fee on the selling price, the other sticks a chunk on top and hopes they get it, As you must be aware now in the UK the estate agent has to tell the seller of every offer they receive whether it be low or high, and also if you dropped your house by say £10,000 the agents fee don't drop that much, certainly not enough for them to lose sleep over.

In Spain you drop your house 10,000€ and the agent still marks it for sale plus his bit on top, they don't want to lose anything. But at the end of the day like all business's they all have to make a profit.





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03 Sep 2013 21:15 by kelju Star rating in South Yorkshire . 302 posts Send private message

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Thanks baz1946, it is Spain I am referring to, we have seen an apartment up for sale for €140k and wondered if we put in an offer for say €115k, whether the agent would actually present that price to the seller, or because they might be protecting their commision, claim that the seller has rejected the offer in an attempt to push it higher and gain the maximum commission over what is right for the seller and buyer.

Kelju





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03 Sep 2013 21:30 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

I would think that on 140,000€ the agent has put on top about 12,000€ so the seller wanted about 128,000€ to sell the apartment, your offer of 115,000€ isn't to far away from the sellers price, as to if the agent would tell them is anyones guess, if they accepted your offer the agent might still want about 12,000€ for selling, of course this is based on assumption that the agent is working how most in Spain do and not or a percent basis.

Why not put your offer forward and tell the agent that if you go ahead he has to cut his percentage down, as well as the seller, if they are any sort of business person they wont let you go and I would think bend over backwards to do a deal and take some money.





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04 Sep 2013 08:09 by elaineG Star rating in Spain . 409 posts Send private message

On the occasions I have had dealings with estate agent in Spain over 30 years,  both for myself and friends, the agents have always contracted a percentage (between 5% and 7.5%) never a ‘lump sum on top.’

Thus, if they get an offer it would seem that, as they would be losing only the percentage but gaining a sale,  unlikely they would work very hard for a possible higher price when they had a firm, offer ‘Bird in the hand …..’  (a 10,000 reduction on  150,000 asking price would amount to 5% less commission; so  7,000 instead of 7,500). 

If one allows an agent to ask whatever they like over your ‘hoped for price’ then it could result in less or even no offers.  I would never recommend that a seller enters into such an agreement.

 

There is also the remote possibility that a seller might be able to haggle with an agent so they would take a lower fee, so the seller could/would accept a lower offer.

 

This is from a copy of an agreement I have on file:-  

 


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This message was last edited by elaineG on 04/09/2013.



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04 Sep 2013 09:14 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

On every one I have sold the agent asked me what I wanted for the house, and would like back for the house, Never a mention of X amount of commission and none of them have worked out to be anything like 4/5/6 percent on the top, In fact the last one I sold i have just worked out her commission and it was 9.5 percent on top of my price, either I sold to cheap (Not true because I was 10,000€ more then the same in the area) or she was being cheeky with her fee...But it sold quick.

Never had any contract or agreement that mentions a fixed selling percent either, and if you do it that way you don't get back what you want for the house anyway : 179,000€ — 5% = 8,950€ = 170,000€ return.

So it would seem that agents are doing it differently in many areas.





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04 Sep 2013 09:53 by elaineG Star rating in Spain . 409 posts Send private message

I find it hard to understand why anyone entering into any contract to sell a property would do so only verbally.   (A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on!!)

In my 50 odd years of property dealings in UK, Spain and Far East, I have always had a written contract.

The extract I attached is from a standard Spanish contract

…….   and if you do it that way you don't get back what you want for the house anyway :179,000€ — 5% = 8,950€ = 170,000€ return.

Sorry I thought it was women who were not worldly-wise.

In the example.  The seller wants 170,000, the agent adds their commission and the asking price is 179,000.





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04 Sep 2013 12:10 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 407 posts Send private message

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I would say the agent is on his/her own side using all the information he/she can get from both sides to get the house sold for the best commission full stop. It's their business. You might find the odd one that defends the seller if the offer is ridiculous but I would say the one who has the money is in charge and the agent will more than likely take their side to get the sale.

Baz who is charging those commissions? That is daylight robbery for a €140,000 property. 12,000??? here in Valencia they are all charging around 3%. What is going on where you live? Is everyone mad? I assume this was time ago..

She wasn't being cheeky... she was a thief. But if you were happy with what you got so be it. But be aware, you were ripped off for 5000 euros.



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04 Sep 2013 13:02 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

 

I find it hard to understand why anyone entering into any contract to sell a property would do so only verbally.   (A verbal contract is not worth the paper it’s written on!!)

In my 50 odd years of property dealings in UK, Spain and Far East, I have always had a written contract.

The extract I attached is from a standard Spanish contract

…….   and if you do it that way you don't get back what you want for the house anyway :179,000€ — 5% = 8,950€ = 170,000€ return.

Sorry I thought it was women who were not worldly-wise.

In the example.  The seller wants 170,000, the agent adds their commission and the asking price is 179,000.

Who 's had a verball contract then? not me for sure,  I said,  if you read my post correctly, I said  'NEVER HAD ANY CONTRACT THAT MENTIONED A FIXED SELLING PERCENT EITHER' Totally different to what your implying I said and had.

It's your example which looked like one of your house sale contracts, (was I supposed to know it wasn't then?)  that the figures came from, and the vender wants  the selling price of 179,000€... In black and white, now you say above the agents adds their commision which bumps up the asking price, so what is it then?  vender wants 179,000€ and take the agents fee of 5% out, or 170,000€ and the agent puts his fee on top, both the same one way or the other.

Never sold any house's in the Far East, I have always tried to sell something, somewhere, that makes more then a good pair of shoes, but have sold plenty in the UK..Spain and a couple in Germany.





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04 Sep 2013 13:25 by elaineG Star rating in Spain . 409 posts Send private message

'NEVER HAD ANY CONTRACT THAT MENTIONED A FIXED SELLING PERCENT EITHER' 

Sorry I was giving you benefit of the doubt. I did not imagine that you had no contract, verbal or writteni.e. no understanding of what your agent could or would do.

The extract I posted was my son's.  He wanted 170,000, the agent's 5%, clearly shown in the written contract,  was added, so the agreed asking price was 179,000 plain and simple.





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04 Sep 2013 13:29 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

 

Baz who is charging those commissions? That is daylight robbery for a €140,000 property. 12,000??? here in Valencia they are all charging around 3%. What is going on where you live? Is everyone mad? I assume this was time ago..

She wasn't being cheeky... she was a thief. But if you were happy with what you got so be it. But be aware, you were ripped off for 5000 euros.

 

I went to look at a detached villa advertised at 155,000€ May 2013,  after speaking to the seller's on my own later on it turned out they wanted to clear 140,000€ for the place, yet the agent advertised it for, as I say 155.000€ the seller was happy for the agent to do this it seems, i didn't buy this one, and not down to the fact of the price difference either.

When I wanted to sell my last house I told the agent what I wanted for the house, the figure I told her was the amount I wanted back, no less, no more, we agreed it, and as i said my house was 10,000€ dearer then the very same one further along, which even today is still on the internet for sale, I made no mention of what she would put on top but obversly it was easy to find out.

She sold the house very quickly, I got every penny back I wanted for it, I dont care if she put 20,000€ on top, no one can even say if it hadn't sold in 18 months it would have been down to the price due to the situation in Spain.

I personally think she is very clever because if someone had offered her 10,000€ less for my house she could have taken it, and the buyer could have thought they got a bargain because they ripped us of with the offer. I know for a fact with mine she sold 215 house's 2012/2013 so someone is doing something right.

You are going to have to explain how you think I got ripped of for 5,000€ because for the life of me I cant think how that happened.

 





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04 Sep 2013 13:56 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

 

'NEVER HAD ANY CONTRACT THAT MENTIONED A FIXED SELLING PERCENT EITHER' 

Sorry I was giving you benefit of the doubt. I did not imagine that you had no contract, verbal or writteni.e. no understanding of what your agent could or would do.

The extract I posted was my son's.  He wanted 170,000, the agent's 5%, clearly shown in the written contract,  was added, so the agreed asking price was 179,000 plain and simple.

 

Exactly what I first said, you want X for your house, the agent puts his mark up on top, the house is being marketed / sold for the higher price, in the UK you want X, the house gets sold for X, you pay the agents fee's out of your part of X.

The piece of your son's contract you showed is not plain and simple either, theirs no mention of 170,000€, selling price,  there is of what he wanted to sell at= 179,000€ thats it, and the agent then wanted 5% plus tax of the final selling price, your now saying different, matters not.

Lets brush over the fact that you really did think I sold my house's with only a verbal contract shall we, hence the comment that you thought it was only woman that were not worldly — wise.





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04 Sep 2013 16:07 by elaineG Star rating in Spain . 409 posts Send private message

 Yes, Baz, I am  'sure' you know what you mean

 

.

 





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04 Sep 2013 16:16 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

elaineG....A Lady through and through.





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04 Sep 2013 18:12 by kelju Star rating in South Yorkshire . 302 posts Send private message

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All,

Thanks for the replies and the interesting discussions over the rights and wrongs of contracts, written or otherwise. I have picked up some useful information which will assist me to make an offer when I view the property on the 15th Sept.

Thanks again

Kelju



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04 Sep 2013 20:29 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4493 posts Send private message

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In answer to the original question, they're on their own side of course. If your offer isn't accepted then don't be shy about asking the agent outright how much their commission is and asking them to come down a bit to get a sale. It's always negotiable. And just for the record, I'm in agreement with John Elaine on this one!!



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05 Sep 2013 08:53 by kelju Star rating in South Yorkshire . 302 posts Send private message

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Thanks Roberto, I'll bear that in mind



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05 Sep 2013 09:24 by amogles Star rating in El Campello (holiday.... 170 posts Send private message

We're in a buyers market. There are agents out there with a window full of pretty photographs of attractive houses but getting zero customers. I've just bought a property myself and I've sat with my agent for hours talking over this and that and the other and during all that time not one other person entered the shop and the phone didn't ring once. But those agents still need to pay their own costs and make a living, so unless I'm completely mistaken, they would far rather settle for a lower price and hence a lower cut for themselves than risk losing the only customer who walked into their shop in a month.





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15 Sep 2013 00:13 by kelju Star rating in South Yorkshire . 302 posts Send private message

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Unbelievable!......repeat this several times in a Victor Meldrew type of voice to get the way I am feeling at the moment.

Arrived in Spain late Friday night with an appointment to view the property Saturday AM, to be met by the agent at the appointed time and informed that the seller's personal circumstances had changed and they had decided to withdraw the property from the market.

I think we must have killed a Robin al some point in the past, either that or we are destined to never find the property we are looking for.

Kelju



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15 Sep 2013 08:50 by elaineG Star rating in Spain . 409 posts Send private message

Kelju, That was bad luck but people do change their minds.

 

However, in Spain, unlike UK , after one has agreed to buy and signed the Compraventa (buy/sell agreement) and put down the usual 10% deposit, it is more or less binding, in that if the sealer pulls out they must refund the deposit and a further amount equal to that, or if the buyer pulls out, they forfeit  the deposit.  In UK of course the deposit is returnable up to exchanging contracts.





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