Am I eligible for Plan PIVE?

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20 Nov 2012 19:41 by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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 I've got an ancient SEAT Ibiza which was fine in the summer but in last week's storms it leaked like mad and I had 4" of water in the passenger foot-well.  And the engine was so damp it wouldn't start - it needed a day of sunshine and a good squirt of WD40.

So i wondered about taking advantage of Plan PIVE, getting 2,000 euros off a new or almost-new car.  I'm still very new here and was not going to become fiscally-resident until next year when I retire and stop earning money in the UK.  Am I still eligible for Plan PIVE?



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20 Nov 2012 23:18 by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 409 posts Send private message

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 I don't think so, but I'm not an expert on this initiative. What I do know is that 1000 euros is discounted by the the car manufacturer and the other 1000 euros is given by the government, so you will have to declare this aditional income and pay full tax on the 1000 euros in your yearly tax declaration. So given that this is part of the procedure and you are not a tax resident, one would assume you can't. I stand to be corrected though.

 




This message was last edited by mac75 on 21/11/2012.

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21 Nov 2012 08:32 by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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That's the bit that made me doubt my eligibility too Mac. PIVE runs till March so l could register as fiscally-resident in January and hope there's still some money left in the pot ....

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21 Nov 2012 09:39 by solwayiceman Star rating in Scotland. 50 posts Send private message

Hi Tamaraessex

If this is run the same way as last time then all you need is a car that is eligible ie more than 10 years old ., that was last time. Also you only get the 2000 of a new car not second hand although you can get a newer second hand car but you only get 1000 off as I said this was last time as I dont know how this one differs. There is nothing about TAX to pay it was just so straight forward chose your car and take your old one in sign the papers and drive the new one away, easypeasy this was in Alicante other parts of Spain might be different.

Give it a try as I said there were no tax problems when I changed mine just so sraight forward in fact too easy. You dont have to be a Tax resident you are only buying a car no tax implecations with that.

 



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21 Nov 2012 10:01 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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All info needed here

http://www.planpive.net/como-solicitar-la-ayuda-de-2000-euros-para-comprar-un-coche.html

Cars have to be 12 years or older, 10 years for a commercial -  you do need to sign a delcaration that your tax and social security payments are up to date so you do need to be a tax resident..



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21 Nov 2012 11:39 by solwayiceman Star rating in Scotland. 50 posts Send private message

Ok that was different from last time sorry. You know what its like here change rules and paperwork weekly, and officals make things up all the time HeyHow but I wouldnt change that counrty is great and people are too.



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21 Nov 2012 11:51 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

 

I am tempted to get a new car, mine is a 1997 Corolla  but has done only 70,00 kms, has passed every ITV first time and is almost like new, both mechanically and in appearance. I may have replaced two bulbs from new.
 
From a 'green perspective' I feel that it would be irresponsible to scrap it. 

 





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21 Nov 2012 12:18 by gerrryuk Star rating in Mezquitilla, near To.... 179 posts Send private message

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Not only that John but it sounds as if someone is going to get a bargain by buying yours.



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21 Nov 2012 14:48 by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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Thanks TeamGB that was what l feared. I'd seen you have to be up-to-date with social securityand wondered if that meant tax-resident. Hmm, might need to wait till early 2013 when I register.

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21 Nov 2012 15:45 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

 

Tamara, 
                                Hmm, might need to wait till early 2013 when I register.
 
 
                              if you spend, or intend to spend,  a total of 90 days permanently here you are obliged to register on EU Citizens Register.  If you do that, according the Hacienda,  you are immediately tax resident in Spain.
 
Or, if you spend 183 days or more in Spain in any year to are also tax residents.     There are qualifications about one’s centre of economic actives too, but I don’t think that affects you.
 
One cannot just decide where they will be tax resident.  The rules are very precise.
 
 
I explained this as you did not say how long you spend here.

 





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21 Nov 2012 17:33 by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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Yes, thanks John.  My point is that I CAN decide to a certain extent!  I am "backwardsing-and-forwardsing" at the moment, well under both the 3-month rule and the 183 days rule.  Early in 2013  it is likely that I will be in a position to decide to move here permanently, so will then declare that intention and register immediately on the Citizens' Register and be fiscally-resident.

Technically, for the first 3 months I will be tax-resident in both countries, as the Uk tax year goes on until 5th April.  It is likely I will close my business and retire at the end of March, submitting a closing tax return in the UK after the end of the financial year, ie in May / June.  However (if all goes to plan)  I will declare my intention to be resident in Spain early in 2013, will therefore be fiscally-resident here for the WHOLE of 2013 (as Spain does not recognise part-years) and will therefore do slightly complex tax returns in both countries in 2014 showing that my earnings in the UK between Jan and March 2013 were declared and taxed in the UK.

For certainty and clarity, I am not yet in a position to be certain that I will be able to move here fulltime in April, and therefore nothing I have said in this post should be taken as an announcement of intention to be a fulltime resident (which could, of course, trigger something leading to earlier tax-residency).  I currently visit my home here in Spain for holidays in between working in the UK.

If anybody can spot any flaws in this plan, or can suggest a better way to organise things, I'd be delighted for suggestions.  As you can see, 2013 will be slightly more complex than I would wish!

However I am NOT interested in the Blevins-Franks option of moving everything to Luxembourg between April and December 2013, taking advantage of the possibility of being tax-resident nowhere for that period, and reducing tax liability in both UK and Spain.  Odd though it may sound, I want to pay my dues.



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21 Nov 2012 17:45 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

I would take advice, from an accountant who is not looking to make money on the advice. (Blevins Franks are looking to make commissions)
 
 Once you become tax resident in Spain you are obliged to pay tax on your worldwide earnings. 
 
 Your idea of being able to choose which part of your tax you pay where, could be a problem.





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21 Nov 2012 20:45 by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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No I'm not wanting to choose where I pay (indeed if l could choose, l'd pay in Spain because the UK has had a great deal of tax from me, and Spain needs my contribution as I am now benefiting from their education system, their roads, their infrastructure etc to which I have not contributed).

But my Jan to March earnings will have to be declared in the UK at the end of the 2012/13 tax year. By the time l make my 2013 Spanish tax return in the spring of 2014, l will already have paid the tax on the Jan to March earnings, and this will (l hope) be counted under the dual taxation treaty.

Other than earnings on which l will already have paid UK tax, l am not looking to choose, or hide, or dodge anything! And even those, l would not hide, l just don't want to pay tax a second time.

Yes l agree, l need an independent accountant, not an investment adviser. Someone l can explain it all to, openly and honestly, who will help me find my way through the maze!

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15 Dec 2012 14:45 by wencra Star rating in mollina - malaga. 66 posts Send private message

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on this subject, and for future referance is this an on going scheme, or limited time(or just open to spanish changes as and when) is there a set time in the year when it is in operation, and final question is it just to buy a new car or can it be used for a motorbike or campervan

thanks

 


This message was last edited by wencra on 15/12/2012.



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15 Dec 2012 17:15 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

I am in the process of buying a new car, not a motorcycle,  on Plan Pivy.
 
As I understand it, there is no time limit on when it will finish, but the dealers thought it was imminent. It is definitely not an on-going facility.
 
The trade in car must be at leas 12 years old  and believe registered in the name of the owner for 12 months.

Incredibly,  although  I do not need credit,  by taking  6,000 euros  over 2 years on credit, I will pay just over 800 euros interest but have been given an additional  2,000 euros discount on the price of the car.





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15 Dec 2012 17:52 by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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The current scheme runs until the end of March 2013. The vehicle you buy has to cost under something like €23,000 but check the exact amount in the links someone helpfully provided earlier in the thread. I believe new or one-year-old campers are likely to be over this but this isn' my area of knowledge so check out the small print in the link or go and ask in a garage.

The €1000 from the dealer is meant to have no strings but many dealers are saying you MUST take out their finance (though as John has found it's still good value) but the government's €1000 contribution has to be declared on your tas return and could therefore be subject to tax.

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15 Dec 2012 18:49 by wencra Star rating in mollina - malaga. 66 posts Send private message

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hi tamaraessex  thanks for your reply, as I said was a general questionas won't be moving over for a while, just wanted to check will dig deeper closer to our departure 





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15 Dec 2012 19:19 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5247 posts Send private message

Tamarar close,  but  see

http://www.planpive.net/requisitos-del-plan-pive.html

for the actual details.





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19 Dec 2012 21:57 by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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 LATEST NEWS .......  Well it turns out that non-residents ARE eligible for Plan PIVE as well as residents.  John has written usefully elsewhere about his current experience of getting a 2000euro gift from the dealer and the government for a new car, but I thought I'd add mine anyway so that forum members have the info from both a resident and a non-resident perspective.

Firstly, I am buying a 6-month old car with 150km on the clock.  In other words it was matriculated, then moved to Malaga, sat in a showroom, and now I'm buying it.  It's the new tiny SEAT model (equivalent of the VW Lupo), known as the SEAT Mii.  Stupid name, nice little car.

Eligibility - you need to show your Empadronato, NIE, and passport.  Escritura only if you are taking out the finance option.  You also need (of course) to provide your Permiso de Circulacion relating to the car you are handing in for scrapping (this being the core point of Plan PIVE, to get old cars off the road).  Your old car must be 12 years or older.  And it must be Spanish-matriculated, and in your name.  There is no mimimum length you need to have owned the old car.

Now, John wrote about the extra benefits of taking out the finance option.  It would have been the same for me.  SEAT are offering a FURTHER 2000euros off if you take their finance.  And it's not a bad rate - 6.75% on a mimimum of 6,000 euros.  And with a payback period of 2 years at 253 euros per month you end up paying 800 euros more on finance than by paying cash.  So you gain a further 1200euros.  Can't see why they are doing it, but it's true, and was offered in two SEAT dealerships and also in the Peugot and Open dealers as well (the finance, not the extra 2000 euros off, that's just SEAT).

However, to get the finance you need to show proof of regular income INTO your Spanish bank account, other than transfers from your own UK account.  I have a small monthly rental income which goes into my UK bank account, which wasn't acceptable.  They would have needed a statement from the lettings agent to say I would receive the funds monthly, which was all a bit of a palaver so i didn't do it and just paid cash (I didn't lose out much, as on the 2nd-hand car, albeit almost new, there was only a further 1000 euros off for taking the finance, so I only missed out on 200euros).  Showing UK pension is fine even if it's paid into a UK bank, as they understand it will keep coming.  Or any form of work-related income, in Spain or UK.

Where to buy?  I first went to dealers in Velez-Malaga, but was warned by a friend that a lot of English go there so i wouldn't get the best prices.  it's true - I went into Malaga and got better prices.  There was definitely room for negotiation.  Obviously having the language helped (I became a bit of an exhibit at one stage, and two other sellers gave me a thumbs up when I told my seller that yes, she knows I understand that it is difficult for her to reduce the price further, but she also knows that I understand it is possible!).  I got another 1000 knocked off for cash, plus a satnav thrown in.  It was loads of fun!  Oh and an extra year's guarantee.

Finally, different dealers seem to do the destruction of your old car differently.  The three dealers in Velez-Malaga all said we had a week AFTER I collect my new car, before the old one has to be destroyed.  SEAT in Malaga are saying I must hand in the old one BEFORE they can complete the paperwork (they will need 24 hours to get the destruction certificate).  As it turns out that's fine, as my clutch went last week so I've abandoned it at my mechanic's garage, and SEAT are sending the grua (towaway truck) to get it from there.  

So, in summary - go for it, it's a great deal!  Haggle for all the extras, and be prepared to walk out and go to a different dealer.  If possible do it in Spanish or take along a Spanish friend / neighbour.  And it appears to be worth buying an old wreck for 300 euros just to use for this Plan PIVE!  But the fund is limited ..... it will run NO LATER than the end of March, and may finish sooner once the fund is used up.

Hope that's useful!



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28 Dec 2012 18:11 by kathyslad Star rating. 329 posts Send private message


" if you spend, or intend to spend, a total of 90 days permanently here you are obliged to register on EU Citizens Register. If you do that, according the Hacienda, you are immediately tax resident in Spain."

Sorry, this is not right. Could you point me to where on the Hacienda website it says this ?



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