Would you buy properties selected by us?

I do not doubt Maria's honesty and integrity, I personally know people she has advised and if I was considering buying in Spain would look at this option.

Having said that I would not consider buying another property in Spain in the forseeable future. It is still bandit country for property, what's legal today could be illegal next week, month, year due to retrospective planning laws. The land grab laws are still there and the utter contempt the authorities have for the people who's lives they wreck  is shocking. Spain has a long, long way to go before I would consider it a safe place to buy.

You're very right.  There is still a long way to go before people have any sort of confidence in buying in Spain again.

And the fact that people are still being affected by the absolutely most ridiculous law which is the Land Grab Law, is incomprehesible in a modern society.

So much damage has been caused internally to the property market in Spain and to people's lives, it's no wonder that the last reported property sales figures show a continued decline.

Justin

 I personally think we all need to do our part for the market to resurrect, it is not just a matter of wiaiting for the prices to go down or tax cutting. 

It is about offering the products that are already there in a way people will feel safe in terms of legal safety, technical quality and right price. This independent search will be done by independent proffessionals who will get paid for the work they are doing according to the scales their proffessional associations allows them to. No commissions playing.

If a client wants to hire us for conveyancing, we will just charge the conveyancing fee.

If a client otherwise also want us to help them to find a good property, then, we will charge them addittionally a small fixed amount for the search. No commissions.

maria

your idea sounds intereststing, and if I was in a position to buy in Spain again and felt it was safe to do so, then I would consider your service. 

At the moment I'm still in the position of having my life's savings robbed from me ultimately by Spain's own justice system, thanks to the 2 year court delay that allowed Aifos to go bust before my embargo or the sum awarded to me in my  court win could be actioned.  I was never given a BG either as you know, but I can't fund the cost to take the bank to court, not knowing if I would win?.

If it were just some crooked agents, lawyers, developers etc that were the problem, and we could trust the justice system, the councils, and the banks to recognise right from wrong and compensate accordingly,  then I'm sure some trust would return, but it's not happening is it. 

My case and many like it couldn't be more black and white, yet still I'm left cheated by the very people in Spain we have to trust for justice.   Until those of us cheated are granted real justice by getting our money back then how can we feel confident or advise anyone to buy?   Bad news spreads far faster and further than good news, and there are many potential buyers who have heard the bad news ......and after years of corruption, lack of implemented law and regulation and poor justice are still hearing it, so the changes need to start NOW!. How long  will it be before those trying to get Spain's property industry going again, realise that?.

 Goodstich:

I do completely agree with you. And we are primarily keeping the fight up in that field.

At the same time, we think we also need to provide tools for people to be able to buy in Spain again. 

As you know we are campaigning for Law 57/6o to be effected and also reformed. Effection through Courts and reform through the Bank Guarantees in Spain petition: http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/

I whish you all the luck and please let me know if there is anything we can do for you.

Kindest,

Maria

 That's the first we have heard of this Goodstich!!!

When did all this happen to you????????

georgia

Goodstich will continue to tell his TRUE story everyday to anyone who will listen until he gets back his money.

Do you expect these people to shut up and not spoil the Spanish property market?

 I don't expect anyone to shut up,no....but.....as he was speaking directly to Maria and i know she has heard this probably a thousand times, i am sure a simple "as you know my situation,i would be very wary" would have done the trick....no?

PLEASE keep this thread on topic.  It was becoming an interesting dsicussion about Maria's proposed new service.

Please don't trash it and any further posts MUST be about the original subject or I'm hitting the delete key

Justin

 sorry Justin

Maria

With regards to your idea and you providing the tools for people to buy.  I agree with the need for someone who can be trusted, but so many have had their trust betrayed in Spain by those promising THEY can be trusted, that I still think the system you work within at the moment takes away trust in the majority of potential buyers, and with good reason. You might well do your parts with integrity, but how many others in system can buyers be confident will do the same.?  

.......... a big 'well done'  once again to you, Keith, ads etc,  who I realise are doing all they can through law 57/60 to get justice for those cheated. I'm still wondering if the BG route is worth considering, but time constraints are probably against me now anyway?.  My lawyers says we wont win, but what other options are there unless the courts suddenly decide their 2 year delay when dealing with a company on the brink of going under from the start was unreasonable???

georgia

It's worth remembering that new people will find the site and 'old news' could be new to them?, and I feel any first hand experience of being cheated could just help someone not go through a similar misery.  Better armed with the reality eh! 

 I have to agree with many comments on here. I think the problem is Maria (and I think from reading your posts you are one of the more honest ones and that is good to know) that all faith has been lost in the Spanish system. British mainstream TV is now showing programmes such as "Homes from Hell" where Spanish property regularly features. With audiences of MILLIONS the trust in Spain is gone, and will probably never return. Providing a service or a few tools to help will not help the deeper rooted problems in the Spanish property market and the bad reputation it has.

I am an owner in Spain and I would never trust the Spanish system to ever make another purchase; and I was a lucky one! Just a 5 minute browse of the internet reveals what an awful state Spain is in. Land Grabs, corrupt officials, scams etc etc. If anyone said to me we have a service that will find you a property my first thought would be "who are they working for and where is the scam". I know you are not like this (reading your posts) but that is how many feel in the UK now.

Spanish property will continue to decline as now all faith is lost. I wish it would not as I would like to sell the property one day. My future money investments will stay well clear of Spain.

Good luck Maria, Spain needs more people like you, but I will pass with any future Spanish investments of any type.

It was British TV brought people to Spain in the first place and now they quite happily report the horror stories.

What's needed is total reform if ever there is to be trust.

TaxExile

I think you are right, but there is still so much denial, probably because the reality is just to grim to face up to for many?.  Some of those with a financial interest will try to convince the rest of us that the problems only affect the minority, and we have to accept the way it is because ''that's Spain''.  That clearly isn't true though, the damage done has spread and those like Maria who are trying to do things right, are still fighting a tide of doubt and misstrust.  It's going to take the majority of pieces in the jigsaw puzzle being in the right place before people will trust in the system.

I admire those trying their best to bring trust in to the system to encourage the buyers back, but they have to understand which must come first.  People will not buy until changes are made to the system that the lawyers work within, and those changes could probably be much faster if the lawyers would stand together and say the current lack of implementation of law, regulation and justice is just not acceptable to the majority of potential new buyers.  If they wont do that and in doing so get the will of the Spanish people and expats behind them, then we have to wait for the Spanish government to take the lead, and what chance of that?

 Goodstich:

Good independent lawyer, being paid just by their clients, getting business just out of their clients free choice can make the difference.

If these lawyers ( us among them) perform and strict job when conveyancing....there is nothing to be afraid of. No properties without license will be transmitted, full guarantees check. Also, you will always have the Indemnity Insurance of the lawyer for any problem ariding out of the work carried out by them.

The boom years made everyone be just on the benefits and not on the rights and the guarantees ( banks, developers,lawyers and buyers) Things are different now.

I am encouraging every of my clients affected to sign Keith Rule Petition. The signers are very few yet in comparison with real people affected and I consider it to the be the most effective way for our voices to be heard:

http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/

maria

that sounds good but what about the land grab, what about the court delays, what about those awaiting justice from the banks, the courts, the local councils?.  These are legal bodies of trust that people need to know are trustworthy. They need to see that those wronged are being compensated NOW, and not having to engage in years more expensive litigation that's only used because decent common sense regulation wasn't in place when they did nothing but follow the rules in the first place.

With respect, how can you say 'there's nothing to be afraid of'  when the situation above is still the reality for many now and still could be for new buyers?  If Keith's petition is affective and many of us cheated start to get compensation then the good news about trust in the system and a will from those in power to do things right will spread,  but until then I only see change from the areas you can control, which is great but it's not enough.

Dear Maria you talk of trust. This is not just about trusting one good lawyer, or maybe a few good lawyers. Little in terms of economic impact will transpire from that (although I recognise your genuine attempts to look after your clients’ interests).

This is about a far wider issue. How can people have trust in the real estate industry in Spain when existing laws are not being adhered to by the Banks in Spain? How can they trust in the Spanish Real Estate Industry when we witness thousands of consumers forced into legal action to defend their rights, when a law in place to protect them from the outset (Ley 57/68) is not being enforced? How can there be trust when there are no realistic disincentives in place to inhibit legal or banking malpractice (via effective regulatory bodies)?

The starting point to building trust should be to make the Banks immediately accountable, not through costly complex legal cases that take years to effect (if you are lucky ), but by fast tracking of recompense as suggested in Keith’s BG petition. To suggest that settlements and refunds (presumably you mean here by developers and Banks) will follow off the back of sales, is like putting the cart before the horse.

Spanish Banks should be made accountable via fast tracking of recompense before considering any deals with the Banks who have done a grave disservice to the Spanish Property Industry.

I will quote from a recent newspaper article referring to the upcoming property roadshows, in which it itemises what should be done before promoting sales in Spain. It sums up the situation exactly, see:

http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/2011/09/14/spanish-government-property-road-show-part-ii/

There are more important things the Government should do first, or at least set in motion, for example:

- Reform town-planning legislation
- Pressurise regional governments to reform so-called “Land Grab” laws
- Enforce laws in a timely-fashion
- Fix the courts as justice delayed is justice denied
- Improve market transparency
- Reduce transaction costs (some progress)
- Tackle systemic corruption (some progress)
- Punish corrupt officials (some progress)
- Regulate estate agents
- Make lawyers more accountable to their clients
- Re-think the urban-planning model
- Reform the absurd Ley de Costas / Coastal Law
- Enforce bank-guarantees
- Encourage architectural diversity and innovation
- Stop peddling conspiracy theories
- Help innocent victims of scandals
- Compensate Len and Helen Prior

It's a long list and will take time to effect but I would suggest like Goodstich that sadly only then will trust return to the Spanish market place.

I really hope for everyone's sake that a fast track process can be achieved against the Banks. But it will only come if pressure is brought to bear from all quarters on the Spanish Banks. Doing deals with Banks will only delay the overall aim to recapture purchasers' trust in the Spanish Property market.

I agree that ALL those affected need to sign Keith's petition www.bankguaranteesinspain.com as soon as possible.

 Ads,

I fully agree with you and with Mark on the article you have posted.

That is why, in regards to Bank Guarantee, as the matter we are concentrated in, I strongly encourage affected people to sign the Bank Guarantees in Spain petition.

http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/

 goodstitch44 you hit many of the nails on the head, and especially:

"we have to wait for the Spanish government to take the lead, and what chance of that?"

Maria the problem is that getting a property found by a trustworthy lawyer / estate agent we could 100% trust in like yourself (and my lawyer was Spanish and I still trust her to this day 100%) is no guarantee of all the other problems that infest the Spanish property market. Why I agree with the comment goodstitch44 made is that there are many other problems that go right to the government layer (corrupt officials, riduculous Land Grab laws etc etc) and without this being tackled by the government many foreign investors (IMHO) will look to safer havens with legal systems that have been proven to protect the innocent (and Spain has just about destroyed all trust and faith in that respect). I cannot remember who said this but it has been a corner stone of all my businesses: "money will *always* go to where it is treated best".

I think that if any Spanish lawyer wanted to make an absolute fortune then don't try to offer to sell things into a collapsing and distrusted corrupt market - try to offer a service to people who have had enough of Spain and want to get the hell out and hand the keys back to the bank. That is where there is a real service demand offering IMHO.

Kind Regards,

TE

@Taxexile "try to offer a service to people who have had enough of Spain and want to get the hell out and hand the keys back to the bank. That is where there is a real service demand offering"

She already does.

** EDITED - Please respect terms of posting **