What happened in Manilva

tinto

if we didn't impose our culture on another culture the mutilation of females that morerosado bought up and other acts of barbarity would continue for much longer. Are you happy with that?  The same goes for the animal kingdom, are you ok with killing elephants for their tusks, or whale hunting with cruelness beyond belief?? 

........ you also hope the new government will turn around the hunting ban.

Say no more.

georgia

you are pretty well smack on with the fox hunting issue.  That said I saw my father completlely shattered on several occasions following an attack on his pheasent pens by a fox. They bite the head off then move on to the next bird. Even my father sees now what really happened though. The fox met by a large amount of  birds in a small area goes in to a killing frenzy. It's a very unnatural environment for a fox, used to only preying on one animal/bird and their behavior refects this. It has nothing to do with hunting or killing  for pleasure but everything to do with survival.  Following one fox raid, we  found some birds yards from the pen half buried by the fox, in an attempt  to create a sort of larder!

The shooting issue is again pretty bad. Gamekeepers will kill anything that threatens pheasents, and the methods are often very barbaric, some of them banned as well. and so they should be.   And for what? so that a bunch of pompous ar*eholes can blast away at a large, slow and  very simple game bird, half tamed by the Gamekeeper. The poor things even come to a whistle for food! in an area called a feed ride. At the time I thought that was acceptable, It was my family life, and my fathers living. It's cruel and it's wrong though, we really should move on. No excuse is acceptable for man made cruelty for fun??

 Gillespie,

You should have rounded up some upper class or aristocracy and chased them around the glens for a while on horses.

It may not of solved the problem  but apparently is "rather dashing good fun once you catch the little blighters".................do they have anyone called Rupert in the hebrides?

georgia, there were more killers per m2 than in Wormwood Scrubs!

We had one of Scotlands largest Hunting/Shooting Estates nearby and people paid 22k for a long weekends deerstalking, snipe shooting and fishing.

On top of that there was the anual seal cull, dolphin shoot and hedghog gassing.

Being a strictly wee free lot, they would watch their new born lambs having their eyes and tongues plucked out by black backed gulls, but because it was Sunday they were not prepared to do anything about it. OK for them because they were insured and recieved winter feed subsidy.

We once tried to organise a meeting for all the kids to join Compassion in World Farming until the local crofters organised a deputation and ordered us to stop filling their childrens heads with soppy ideas!!

But like you say, the locals have to change their own opinions for themselves!

Cunning little blighters though

.

"No excuse is acceptable for man made cruelty for fun??"

Goodstitch no where in any of my posts have I condoned this, and my final comment on the matter is that in the UK the only people who broke the law before the hunting ban were the anti-hunting brigade.

tinto

saying I won't interfere if it's not in my back yard could be seen as  condoning it ?

the law was broken because the law stood for cruelty. That needed stopping while opinions were being voiced in my opinion, as does any cruelty. The talking can come later.

Spain is a rapidly modernising country which, like the rest of Europe, has to compete in a global economy. Tourism plays a large part in that economy, thus the tourist should have a voice, and the right to complain. Fifty children tormenting a small pig may somehow be part of 'ethnic' culture, but I don't want my small granddaughters to witness it. Having invested in the Spanish economy through owning a flat here and paying council tax I feel I have the right to criticize. Spain's transistion from a dictatorship to a democracy surely includes the freedom to speak openly about things I find abhorrent. The idea that there is somehow a 'real' Spain full of flamenco, cathedrals and brooding peasants, with centuries old traditions such as chasing and torturing pigs might well be a hyped up romantic myth. In reality the Spanish population holds a wide cross section of  opinion on all topics, pig chasing included.

in all cultures there are things we would all rather our grandchildren did not see in england we have grouse shooting quasi foxhunting and other debatable sports in spain there is bullfighting and also bull running the way out is not to go at fiesta time,or if in england stay of the moors i am sorry you found this upsetting but in thier eyes it is not it is part of thier heritage, thanks to the labour goverment england now has no heritage and no borders thats why im am going to take up spanish nationality when i can.

david

davidashbyash

so we ignore cruelty in whatever form because of heritage?  I would argue that  hreitage isn't worth a toss if it's at the expense of animal or human suffering. The government banning fox hunting was a brave move that didn't go down at all with mainly right wing voters who see cruelty as an acceptable part of English heritage.  If that's turned round by the next government, it will be a sad day indeed, and a big step backwards regarding how we should treat animals.

All those who have written on this topic may be interested in the result. A friend of mine, a Spanish speaker who has lived in Manilva over twenty years, and who was appalled at hearing about the pig chasing, yesterday handed in a letter of complaint to the Department of Culture. Within forty minutes, the young offical who had organised the event was knocking at her front door. He had known her slightly when he was a child. He told her that he remembered a similar pig chasing from his youth and had wanted to resurrect this old tradition. In their subsequent conversation, although he protested that the pig was not hurt, he took on board the fact it was terrified, and that it was not a good example for children to follow. He has cancelled a similar event that was to take place in Sabinillas, and there will be no repeat of this event next year in Manilva. He was most concerned that he had offended the extranjeros. As well as myself and my friend, an Austrian lady who runs an animal welfare group had also written to him, pointing out the law that was passed in 2003 making such activity illegal.

Overall I feel that this is a good result, and proves there is a point in complaining.

josefina

good news indeed. Say a big ''well done'' to your friend. Turning a blind eye is not the way forward with many issues in Spain, not least  corruption and justice!  We need some official like that with balls, to stand up for those wronged in the property fiasco.

Thank you josefina.  Please thank your friend from me also.

Well done Josie and Mary! I am so pleased that they aren´t going to do it again.

Susan

Hi I would also like to say well done Josefina, it's people like yourself  who take a stand that make a difference, and I would also like to say that animal cruelty has nothing to do with culture, almost every country in the world has some sort of animal cruelty going on, and there are thousands of people like yourself  trying to put a stop to it.  Why as humans do we do it?  the answer is because we can.  

Kathy

Right- thats the running pigs sorted, now can anyone sort out the flying pigs 

Seriously though - Well Done!!

Why is it that the only people who don't have to comply with the statement "If you don't like it , go back home", are the Muslims?Wherever they go the locals have to change their ways so as not to "offend" them.  I am sick of being told "If you don't like it, go backhome.  This is Spain".  If it wasn't for us paying our taxes and spending our money here then Spain would still be driving around roundabouts (the wrong way) on Donkeys!  Not that they would have roundabouts.  All animal cruelty is a disgrace and totally unnecessary and should be stopped whether it is fox-hunting in Britain, Bear-baiting in Asia or Bull-fighting in Spain.  I live in Manilva and I wasn't aware this had taken place and I'm very glad I didn't as I'd probably have got myself in trouble.  I bet the brats belonging to the 2 scumbag families who are living illegally on our urbanisation were right at the front of the crowd as it is about the level of entertainment that would satiate their little brains.

Well done Josefina, you see we DO make a difference.

I wasn't going to post again as there didn't seem much point with Tinto going on & on & I thought I'd blow a gasket but this news is so good.

Below is a very interesting post from another forum:

Why is it, that when the subject of fox hunting comes up, as it has done here it is framed around the idea of a "society that disagrees with cruelty to animals", yet you rarely hear any of the same people vigorously call for the banning of Halal and/or Shechita which have been equally condemned for their cruelty?

There is a cliché that the fox-hunting issue is really about class, or more correctly the perception of class about the people that do it. However, it's always argued that it's about cruelty. As such I get increasingly confused at the silence about slitting an animal's throat and letting it bleed to death slowly over a period of about two minutes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for Halal or Shechita to be banned, far from it. Rather I'm wondering upon why the Labour Party, if it cares about animal cruelty so much, why it has never had the balls to stand by its alleged convictions and outlaw the practice and import of such products?

I've no doubt that some might make the argument that the practices are not in fact cruel. There are arguments along those lines. However if you go down that route you have the problem that there are similar arguments about hunting pack dogs doing what nature has dictated hunting pack dogs will do. At which point what you're really doing is criminalising nature - which is of course utterly absurd.

I mean, I know the Labour Party would never ban halal or shechita. Things like religious tolerance and cultural relativism would get in the way for them. The thing is, doesn't that just kind of make their allegedly moral positioning on animal cruelty stand on rather weak foundations?

Is it just me or do they stand there proudly saying: "We believe in a society that disagrees with cruelty to animals, unless the people carrying it out are a particular ethnic group in which case we get all confused about stepping on our other principles of non-discrimination."

It's all so very confusing!"

tinto

well yes, you have a good point. At what point is cruelty no longer acceptable?  I feel any kind of slaughter should be with as little suffering as possible, but where do you draw the line?

The main difference as I see it is killing for food. If slitting an animals throat and letting it bleed to death was a ''sport'' much like tearing a fox apart while still alive after exhausting it, then yes it would be just as sick.. If the animal thats killed in the Halal way, is not stunned (made brain dead) by electric shock before hand, then I feel that's also in no way acceptable.

Unless we are vegies, we have have to accept animals will die for our food, but I believe that should still be done in  the most humane way possible. So no, I don't agree with Halal anyway.