Tenants from Hell!!

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06 Jul 2009 00:00 by I don´t believe it Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

I have a mate, who has tenants living in his apartment, for free, they are sitting pretty and are refusing to pay rent or utilities and will not leave until the courts evict them, any suugestions (legal of course).  They know that this process takes months, and we have heard that they have been doing this for many years, my mate is not prepared to allow these tenants to cheat other owners, incidentally these people came with references.  We have been trying without any success to find other victims of these people, has anyone else had a similar experience? or having a similar problem? between us we must stamp this out and work together, any suggestions or information will be more than useful.  These people have threatened to take action against my mate if he approaches them, all we want to do is to talk to their previous land lord, can we bet that lucky, any information will be treated with confidence. This is a terrible situation for an owner to find themselves in, between us we can stamp it out, maybe we should all get together and get the law changed in our favour before it is too late.  

A serious downside of the way the law works in favour of the tenant is that this will inevitiably have a ricochet effect on Spanish Property Sales, most of us buy a Spanish property as an investment, the Spanish Authorities need to take a firmer stance where tenants from hell are concerned, at the moment it is just not good enough, many owners must now be struggling anyway, due to the recession and decreasing rental yields, but to have tenants bleeding you dry is really just adding salt to the wounds.  





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06 Jul 2009 14:13 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 422 posts Send private message

Hi there,

I have just come out that situation, my tenant could not afford his rent, always paid late and has left me over €2.000 owing.  I also was not allowed to go near him as he wanted to take me down for hurrasment.

I contacted a lawyer and had him email the tenant.  Need i say the tenant never replied and stayed in the property a fiurther 6 weeks rent free, next thing i know i got message advising he had left.  Apartment left in a total state and with no intention of comming back and doing anything about it. Some of the damage was done out of pure malice! The electric has been cut off and i dont have €500 to pay the debt as the tenant never gave me a deposit, it was a reference from a friend and was in a bad situation so we decided to rent with no deposit.

I dont have money to replace the damages and can not rent again.  My lawyer will be contacting the tenant for payment but im afraid it will be a law suit that takes forever and ever!

Unfortunately landlords are not protected.  My advice go to a good lawyer and sue! As far as i know you are under no oblgation to pay for the electric and water so stop paying and let them get cut off, maybe this will make them leave sooner.  If payment has been made less than a month ago by direct debit you can send the payments back! Tell your bank  to stop paying them, this might be your ownly option.

Seriously, do not allow them to get away with it, you could be stuck for years. People need to understand that it is not the landlords problem that you can not pay!

Let me know how you get on.

Joan





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06 Jul 2009 14:36 by I don´t believe it Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

 Hi Jo, Sorry to hear that you have had a problem too, it is really worrying, obviously it is the not knowing that makes things much worse.  What we have to do here is to make a stance, and even if these people leave, they still owe money, they obviously don´t care about what they are doing.  The solution would be to just forget about the money they owe and carry on regardlness, but my friend has resolved that he must be the one to put a stop to this.  

He has a lawyer, but like most things in Spain things are moving at a snails pace, any advice or assistance you may have would be greatly appreciated, there must be hundreds of owners finding themselves in a similar predicament, and I guess that this post may have opened a can of worms.  We shall find out, have a nice day......





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06 Jul 2009 14:56 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 422 posts Send private message

Hi there,

I for one am going to court, i dont care how long it takes, this is not the first time people have destroyed my apartment.  Up till now i thought "well they are out doesnt matter about the money" but the truth is it does.

€2.000 is nearly 4 months rent and i just can let them get away with this.

I know for a fact and from watching the Spanish news that the courts are seriously overworked and that there are plenty of delays and that more than likely it will take me years, then again lucky for me my tenants were a little stupid and let me in on information that could damage them, so im sure if i preasure them enough in a nice way and without threatning them i should be able to come to some sort of agreement..

My advice to your friends is to stay away from them, dont give them anything to throw back at you, if they come and bother your friends tell them to go and put a denuncia por harrasment.  Make sure you tell them to not pay any further bills, surely they will not stay with no electric, water or gas. Find out if they are running a business from home, if this is the case this also can get them evicted as it is ilegal to run a business from home unless stipulated on contract and the same goes if they are renting any rooms or space to anyone else. If they are making noise and disturbing the neighbours this can also help.

As you can see i have done this many times before.  In once case i entered the apartment and took all the tenants stuff out and left it in the road, this is illegal so i do not recomend it but i did it years ago and in those days you could get away with it.

The other thing is to keep on to the lawyers, dont let them fall asleep!

Eitherway when they win the court case which they will they will be paid all the monies they are owed, they can even seize the tenants bank account and property in Spain to cover the debt, hopefully they will have something in their name.  You can even seize there wages if they are declared.

If they are not on the books make sure you denounce this, same if they are illegal in Spain.

I really do hope some of this may be useful for you.

I really wish i could post my tenants name all over to warn other owners, unfortunately it is considered slander and i can not do that! Please landlords out there, be careful, the minute you dont get paid cancel the contract and get them out!

Joan

 

 

 





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06 Jul 2009 15:05 by I don´t believe it Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

 Hi Joan, Your tenants sound just like my poor friends terrible tenants, I have ready some disgusting emails from these people, threats, promises, allegations etc., they apparently are veterans at this game.  They have even threatened me, these people are walking around though as bold as brass, fortunately one of them has a permanent job with a contract, as for the other half YES they are running a business from the apartment, guess they are off the radar too.  

Maybe I could email you directly, we too would love to post their names all over for everyone to see, and to save other people losing out - but we can´t do that, because guess what it is illegal...... where will it all end.....

 

many thanks for your advice......

 





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06 Jul 2009 15:31 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 422 posts Send private message

** EDITED * Please use private message facility for email addresses



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06 Jul 2009 21:05 by I don´t believe it Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

 Hi There, Is your problem recent? if so have you lodged the paperwork with the Spanish Courts yet?  If so how is it progressing, is your lawyer optimistic?.

Did the tenant take any furniture, as this is something else that we are now getting really worried about.  Everyone seems to think that an eviction can take anywhere between 6 and 9 months depending on how busy the Courts are, meanwhile owners are paying the mortgage, community fees, and utilities.  

 

Your posts have been really helpful, 





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06 Jul 2009 21:05 by I don´t believe it Star rating. 8 posts Send private message



This message was last edited by I don´t believe it on 06/07/2009.



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06 Jul 2009 22:36 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 422 posts Send private message

At the moment i am trying to get my tenants to agree to pay me an amount per month until they cover the debt, nevertheless it does not look like it will happen.  The only reason im doing this is because they have left the flat and i rather sort it out without the courts.  I was lucky and no furniture went missing but there were many damages, linen missing and loads of kitchenwere broken or unusable again.  Certain kitchen items had to be thrown out. If furniture is taken they will be liable for it, make sure when you have access to the apartment again that there is a witness to confirm what is there or not and make sure to take photos, thats what i did and thanks to that i can prove the damage and get paid for it.

I am going to give them a couple of days to agree to my terms or i will go to court, due to the delays my lawyer recons it can take around 1 year, but i prefer that to never getting my money.

The situation with the courts is a real nightmare but its worth it, someone needs to put a stop to these people.

I will ask my lawyer tomorrow but as far as im aware you dont need to keep paying the utility bills if they do not give you the money.

 

Joan





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06 Jul 2009 22:36 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 422 posts Send private message



This message was last edited by joanmalaga on 06/07/2009.



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07 Jul 2009 00:30 by kernow24 Star rating. 106 posts Send private message

We are in exactly the same situation as yourself.

A lady was put in our house last August by a rental agency we had never heard of and they gave them a contract with our personel details on which has never been signed by us. ( we had agreed verbally with a different agency that they could find us a tenant and then manage our property) We stipulated no pets, this lady has 8 cats (and 2 teenage children)  The agency that drew up the contract never got the full security deposit and kept the first, and only, months rent for a finders fee. I have found out the only reference they got was a telephone one from the company this lady was working for, she then 'got the sack' in Novemeber.  I have also found out that she had to move from her previous accomodation because of smoke damage (she actually had a 'kitchen fire')

Ours was a new build house and it has had some really big problems which have not been able to be corrected as the developer will not enter the property with this lady living there as he believes she is making the situation worse to remain in the property rent free.  We have asked her to move for health reasons and she was offered different accomodation by the rental agency, which she turned down.

She has not paid us any rent for 10 months and no utility bills for the whole time she has been in the house.  We stopped our DD for electric and water in February as she owed us over 500 euros.  There is now 1,890 euros owing for electric (6 months) and she has still not been cut off by Endesa.  There are 2 water bills outstanding for 150 euros and she has still not been disconnected for this.

We got a laywer in January when we went over to Spain and she has been sent 2 legal letters but she has only responded to them to say she will not move as she has lost her job and has no money.  She has asked us to pay her a large amount of money to move ( this is a criminal offence in Spain, but she does not worry about that as the law is on her side)  The lawyers have been helpfull but in the end we do not know if we can afford the time and cost of a court case.

We are finding it difficult to pay the mortgage ( and know in the end we will be responsible for the utility bills as she will not pay them)  We do not know whether to start the eviction process now, which can take up to a year with her living there rent free or to wait for the utilities to be disconnected (if ever that happens).

We are now thinking of handing back the keys to our property to the bank as this has been the most stressful thing we have ever been involved in in our lives

 

Our property is in the Manilva area, where are you.





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07 Jul 2009 00:36 by kernow24 Star rating. 106 posts Send private message

We are in exactly the same situation as yourself. A lady was put in our house last August by a rental agency we had never heard of and they gave them a contract with our personel details on which has never been signed by us. ( we had agreed verbally with a different agency that they could find us a tenant and then manage our property) We stipulated no pets, this lady has 8 cats (and 2 teenage children); The agency that drew up the contract never got the full security deposit and kept the first, and only, months rent for a finders fee. I have found out the only reference they got was a telephone one from the company this lady was working for, she then 'got the sack' in Novemeber. I have also found out that she had to move from her previous accomodation because of smoke damage (she actually had a 'kitchen fire')  Both agencies washed their hands of us once they found out this lady was a problem and refuse to help us. Ours was a new build house and it has had some really big problems which have not been able to be corrected as the developer will not enter the property with this lady living there as he believes she is making the situation worse to remain in the property rent free. We have asked her to move for health reasons and she was offered different accomodation by the rental agency, which she turned down. She has not paid us any rent for 10 months and no utility bills for the whole time she has been in the house. We stopped our DD for electric and water in February as she owed us over 500 euros. There is now 1,890 euros owing for electric (6 months) and she has still not been cut off by Endesa. There are 2 water bills outstanding for 150 euros and she has still not been disconnected for this. We got a laywer in January when we went over to Spain and she has been sent 2 legal letters but she has only responded to them to say she will not move as she has lost her job and has no money. She has asked us to pay her a large amount of money to move ( this is a criminal offence in Spain, but she does not worry about that as the law is on her side) The lawyers have been helpfull but in the end we do not know if we can afford the time and cost of a court case.We are finding it difficult to pay the mortgage ( and know in the end we will be responsible for the utility bills as she will not pay them) We do not know whether to start the eviction process now, which can take up to a year with her living there rent free or to wait for the utilities to be disconnected (if ever that happens).We are now thinking of handing back the keys to our property to the bank as this has been the most stressful thing we have ever been involved in in our lives  Our property is in the Manilva area, where are you.


 

Sorry pressed the button twice and dont know how to deleat!



This message was last edited by kernow24 on 07/07/2009.



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07 Jul 2009 09:39 by Goldie Star rating. 154 posts Send private message

Hi I am sorry to hear about your situation.

Could your lawyer send a letter to the electric and water company to explain on your behalf what is going on and get the lady cut off. As it may stop you from any further debt.

Best of luck





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07 Jul 2009 10:19 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 422 posts Send private message

Hi Goldie,

Unfortunately you can not do that, it is ilegal to cut someone off, the only way it can be done is if it states in the contract that you are not liable for payment of the utility bills and therefore you just stop paying, but you can not ask for the electric and water comopanies to cut them off.

It does take a long time for them to be cut off but it does happen eventually.

Joan





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07 Jul 2009 10:24 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 422 posts Send private message

Hi Kernow,

It sounds in your case that the rental agency could be liable for part of this situation, the tenant should have never been allowed to move in before full bond was paid and contract signed by yourself.

Did the agency ask you before letting her in or did they just handover the keys without your authorisation?

Did the agency know about the pets? Does it say in the contract no pets? If it does than its a clear breach of contract and could help you get her out!

What problems has your apartment got that need to be repaired? Surely if it is a health hazard she has to vacate and certainly a lawyer should be able to do something about this.

Do not hand your keys back yet, I am sure there is a way out of this. Do not give up without a fight, these people have to be stopped.

My property is in Mijas Costa





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07 Jul 2009 10:45 by I don´t believe it Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

 Hi Joan, Did your tenants have any pets? Strange question I know, but I just can´t just ask their name...... 





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07 Jul 2009 10:47 by I don´t believe it Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

 Hi Joan, Did your previous tenants have any pets? Strange ?? I know, but I can´t ask their name......ss





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07 Jul 2009 11:29 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 422 posts Send private message

No they did not have pets, then again i consider them pigs so they were their own pets!

I have had tenants with pets before and I had friends who got vacated from their rental property within 3 months because the dogs kept the whole neighbourhood awake by barking all the time!

If the community rools stipulate no pets that also helps to get them out.

Unfortunately i have been in the business for too long and been through all sorts of situations.

Joan





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07 Jul 2009 11:44 by altealavella Star rating in Orxeta. 42 posts Send private message

Hi, I read this yesterday, I don't know if it is of any use to you.

Property tenants in Spain who don't pay their rent will find it harder in the future. A new law has been passed by Congress that will allow a property owner to evict tenants in less than 15 days once the tenant has been given 15 days for a voluntary leave after not having paid the rent.

The new law aims to offer better security and guarantees to property owners and tenants in order to increase the supply of properties on the rental market.

Source of info www.spanishnews.es



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WWW.freewebs.com/altealavella/



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07 Jul 2009 11:44 by altealavella Star rating in Orxeta. 42 posts Send private message

Hi, I read this yesterday, I don't know if it is of any use to you.

Property tenants in Spain who don't pay their rent will find it harder in the future. A new law has been passed by Congress that will allow a property owner to evict tenants in less than 15 days once the tenant has been given 15 days for a voluntary leave after not having paid the rent.

The new law aims to offer better security and guarantees to property owners and tenants in order to increase the supply of properties on the rental market.

Source of info www.spanishnews.es



_______________________
WWW.freewebs.com/altealavella/



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