again, one of THOSE days .... :-)

From time to time you get somewhere a reaction on forums that not only is funny, but discloses a lot.

And yes, I feel always free to get into a clinch and make things clear from my point of view. After all, on the english forums on the Costa Blanca there are very few if any Spaniards, so after residing here for 25 years and being considered by people from my native country a Spaniard (as well as by most Madrid and Alicante Spaniards), why not have a go.


What I find most objectionable is this attitude of 'slight' moral superiority. The sort of expression (with a wink and a look to the ceiling in the bar) of 'well, we all know that here in Spain it is all corruption and jobs for the boys'. Now please try to get on with reading the whole article, if possible read it two or three times before reacting or reading things I do NOT write ...


In ANY country there are problems with (well yes, let's call it) corruption. You have it in different forms in Germany, in France, in the US, in Flanders, in the UK, in Italy, in Spain. And in any country you have this 'problem' that nationals usually know better how the rules and regulations work, how to make shortcuts etc.

Only for a certain kind of 'Brit' in Spain does that seem like a major problem.


Now let us first of all look at Spain. Here in Spain the local, regional and national administration people have always been known to make time for you, to try to explain things, to try to make things easier for all. A lot of foreigners have taken advantage of this - also to bend the rules towards their benefit. Now before you start howling, how many people on the costas do not drive english registered cars without the MOT rules being followed? How many thousands of people were not following illegally broadcast TV? How many people do not run a business here without declaring their income? How many people are not get benefits paid to them in the UK whilst they are in fact living here in Spain? 

The list can go on for some time. From a Spanish point of view you can add something else: how many expat businesses do not register, do not employ spaniards, do not pay social security, etc. and in fact are like ... locusts living on the Spanish business climate.





Now the Spaniards are not against a 'little' fiddling - don t worry about that. No brits complain about the unemployment rules here being exploited by them - after all the rule here is that you only get it when you have paid into it. Nor about child benefit - after all, you hardly get it. Nor about winter fuel heating - after all it does not exiist here. The main problem seems to be that spaniards 'know their way better around the system'. Well the, isn t it about time the british, the germans, the french etc. learnt the language?

I personally do not have the same problem. My way of (sorry for the expression) running rounds around the spanish administration is simple:

a. respect them
b. ask THEM to clarify things
c. NEVER say 'in my country ...' except to say it is even worse administration (see later)
d. ask them, when it is not clear: hmmm do you understand this? chances are he/she will say ... no
e. ask finally: how do wet round this?

Flemish/Belgian administration against the spanish one:

a. in Spain no one will consider the money from the state HIS money ...
b. in Spain the computer systems work - in Flanders (like very year) the tax onl line system broke down again this week
c. the DNI system works - in Flanders there are regularly problems, frauds etc.
Just a sample of the examples I give them.


Now the UK doe NOT rank as the least corrupt country in the world - check Transparency International's site on that. Nor are other european countries top of the league. That position is taken by ex british colonies like Nigeria etc.



A bit of respect towards the CHOSEN country of residence, work, whatever you want, would go a very long way. Innuendos, generalistations, the 'we are superior' does not lead anywhere, except towards generalisations like:

a. the flemish saying 'spain would be a lot cleaner without the british'
b. the spaniards saying the british are 'los hijos de la Gran Bretaña' meaning the sons of the great whore.
c. the spaniards 'pointing' out that the english are always drunk.


Now in England, we ahve had enormous fun lately reading the papers and the corruption in Whitehall. A few questions before you say 'yes but it has been solved'.:

a. at the date of writing this, who is the speaker? yes, the same one
b. did any MP resign?
c. is it only MP's who fiddled or is it also at local government level?

I can go on with that. What¡s the use? 
The attention - at least in the UK has been drawn towards the MP's expenses, the bankers go free, the journalists's ratings have improved, newspapers have been sold - so what?

...and your point is?

 trying to get comments Roberto ....

Wrong forum!

This one is not political.

Don't think you're likely to get many. It's not at all clear why you posted this, but from what I can make out, you are an angry Belgian living in Spain who dislikes moaning Brits. So what?

Have a nice day.

not angry, not Belgian

just my time to moan a bit as someone flemish   :-)  ok, with a belgian passport  :-( 

Roberto, i agree, what was the point?

There is no message in this post, no starting point, no conclusion........

I am no Literary agent, but nothing jumped out at me as to the point being put over.

Except that all countries have some form of corruption...........

I may go back to bed, this was boring!

FibbyUK

this looks familiar?  Seen similar posts from a person who used to work for a dodgy agent, but also got screwed on their own property purchase through them, but can't face the truth, so mainly blames the victims of lies and corruption instead!

And who might that be Goodstich?  Pick a name....there are many to choose from!!

Edited to take out a T!!!!!

Tish

let's be frank about this, it is a tricky one?

"not angry, not Belgian

just my time to moan a bit as someone flemish   :-)  ok, with a belgian passport  :-( "

Ahh....a Flemish separatist! A rare breed, I would think, and one that the "Madrid and Alicante Spaniards" would probably more likely associate with Basques or Catalans, than themselves. Maybe you're just angry that Beligium's hopeless Eurovision entry was a Walloon yet again?

 Eurovision - who watches it? heard the next day the Norwegian song and as my wife said: where are the times someone needed a voice and if possible lyrics? France at least had someone who can sing ...

better not compare flanders with basque country and cataluña - very different 'animals' there if as your name seems to indicate, you are spanish, you ll see the differences in a second. actually had quite a laugh about this type of basic simplification in a blog in a flemish newspaper for 2 months when blogging on the european elections. 

been living and working in spain now for 25 years, probably more spanish than anything else, have two restaurants in Alicante and probably after the summer opening a 3rd in Orihuela - 100 % spanish food, see alicanterestaurante com

no, this post was just a 'rant' after another englishman started about how corrupt spain is, etc. etc. on another forum. Having my fun with it ....

Mark

mepossem, me Spanish - you Australian?

Eurovision is surely the last remaining thing worth voting for? It's a celebration of everything our "civilization" has become, and must surely be treated with reverence? (incidentally, the Iceland song was fantastic - I still listen to it now)

Someone just posted this on another thread: Is er iemand die spreekt nederlands? Maybe you can help him? Find it here.

In the meantime Mark, please don't let the Brits get you down - you know they can't stand the heat, it's not their fault. Good luck with the new restaurant.

mepossem

corruption in Spain, whatever could make anyone think that?.  Don't they realise if that was the case there would lots of property that nobody wants, often on half finished deveolpments and courts cases stretching out years due to the huge amount of swindles, back handers etc from agents/developers/lawyers/councils.

Corruption Pah!

 Hi Roberto - glad to meet you   :-)

though, as I point out in my original post, the 'we are vastly superior' mentality of some islanders has taken a certain knock ... everyone buying The Telegraph this weekend? Schadenfreude I think it's called  :-)

No, I think the 'oil' that makes wheels work is about everywhere - in the UK the worst case was the BAE defense contract with the Saudis which Tony Blair did not want investigated ....  What happens at Westminster is really small fry, duck house included ....

.

What happens at Westminster is really small fry, duck house included

How dare you!  This is our corruption scandal and it is not really small fry.  Indeed, it is very big fry.  Us Brits don't do corruption very well and we have laughed at the Italians, the African dictators, the Latin American despots and others for a very long time.  When we get a home-grown case of politicos snaffling everything they can get (which we've all suspected for some time, anyway) at least give us the chance to have a good snort and a harumph at it all!  My word, any one of these stories about "duck houses", "moat cleaning", "flippping second homes" etc would have made the headlines by themselves.  But when they all come along together,,,,,,,,,,phewee, we think our ship has come in and we are in seventh heaven (also gives us plenty of chances to mix our metaphors a lot).

So please treat our scandals with the respect they deserve and don't write them off as if they don't matter!!!  After all, we lack behind the rest of the EU in many things so please, let us catch up on this one.....and allow us the chance to kick every last one of them into touch.

 the spirit of Dunkirk - England's finest hour??????

:-)

bobaol said

'Us Brits don't do corruption very well'

.......well our ministers are certainly trying to put that right.  Compared to Spain though, that's been swimming in property corruption, I think the UK barely has a toe in the water?

bobaol,

boy, have you got it right!!

Talk about moral abuse of the system. Every one of those MP´s who had their snouts in the public trough should be sacked forthwith!! They are not fit to represent us in any way shape or form!!

The latest blackout of information, to supposedly protect them is a complete farce!!

Let´s get a barracks organised to house them, when they cannot return to their homes at night.

I paid into our system for 49 solid years, not to have my share used so atrociously!!

Final words, Fred Goodwin has agreed to forfeit some of his pension. This is the man awarded a knighthood for services to banking. The same man that brought RBS to its knees!!

When will we learn???