Problems with bank guarantees on Santa Maria Greenhills

Post reply   Start new thread
:: New - Old :: Old - New

Pages: Previous | 1 | 2 |

Forum home :: Latest threads :: Search forums
The Comments
09 Sep 2008 12:58 PM by Just Dan Star rating. 440 posts Send private message

Hi Jaz P

Do you want them them in alphabetical order

Now this site had many investors which have lost out big time  as it was well priced at the time compared to others in the area. I,E Los Lagos and Santa Maria Village.
Sadly as I have been saying for years complete or lose the deposit as I have a feeling,(given the nod) that this development is lets say accounted for.
If they do say in the end that its illegal then as you have no bank guarantee even it were valid it may have been a small chance of getting money back.
Hopefully it didnt cost to much in legal fees but on a note as property values are falling then think you may have lost financially at least in the short term in the difference in completing or not
Be honest ? Did you buy as an investment and want to get out because the market turned or you wanted to spin before completion
Suggest you/we have to put it down to a severe case of a hard lesson as yer chances are nil as far as I can see.

Just Dan





Like 0      
09 Sep 2008 2:05 PM by JazP Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

we too have purchased in the lower blocks and have not had a succesful outcome in court. We have just lost our case in the high court and now will have to broker some form of deal with the developer. Is anyone in a similar situation and if you can offer some advise on how to get some money back from our deposit that wold be apprecated.

An alternative would be to complete, but can you get a mortgage on this development? With the Credit Crunch it's hard enough getting a straightforward mortgage never mind on an illegal build in Spain..

Please do advise..



Like 0      
09 Sep 2008 3:01 PM by Just Dan Star rating. 440 posts Send private message


The option to take on the developers mortgage is there and its only an illegal build if it is indeed deemed illegal and as your finding out that aint going to be the case.
There are also other banks lending so as long as you qualify you will hopefully get one.
As part of the P.G.U plane it will almost certainly get included the same as several other developments in the area.
Trust me there is no Knight in Shining armour coming along and no one is going to be able to guarantee return of monies.
Dont think the developer has any money to broker a deal as he cant pay his management fees as it is.(notes from the A.G.M)
Sorry to be so blunt but these are the facts even though you may not like to hear them.

Just Dan





Like 0      
09 Sep 2008 3:24 PM by JazP Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Hi Dan thanks for your replies, they are insightful do you have a property on the development? and if so have you completed? In reply to your earlier question we purchased the appartment as a holiday home for family and our friends, feel inlove with the location, when the appartment was not in use we hoped that we could rent it to golfers.



Like 0      
09 Sep 2008 4:06 PM by Just Dan Star rating. 440 posts Send private message


Hi Jaz P
Yep and I love it and I know there will be many that dont like me saying that .
From Elviria to El Rossario is the best area on the Costa del Sol and no building licences being issued for new builds it remains one of the only areas in a good location that wasnt destroyed by developers( Stopped just in time) Anyone that knows the Costa del Sol knows that.
Jaz P  It matters nothing to me if you have complete or not but think you will find that everyone that has completed is very happy as far as I am aware.
Renting. As its in a great location then you will rent it and have a great contact 
Also there is a lady doing change-overs if you want to do the golf thingy.
Have some photos from my last visit if your interested.

Right .  What happens now before someone suggest it
1   I am not an agent trying to promote.
2   If you complete then welcome,if you dont then good luck,because its lovely having the pools to little ole me.( think the owners have become rather selfish)
3  The bottom line is I havent lost any money yet,time will tell if I do.( You will loose you deposit if you dont complete) In the end we may both lose in that case.
The prices will come back in time and you didnt pay well over the top like many on other developments that may never see a return
However investment comes in many forms and just a short stay on Green Hills with the family is proof of one of them.

Just Dan
Think I could be in the s--t here talking like this but one thing is for sure if the roundabout had to stop then far better in a good area than some inland development that will never get finished .
In time when it returns its still Location.Location and this was the up and coming area ( then new local bars/shops etc show the continuing investment)



Like 0      
09 Sep 2008 4:38 PM by Logan Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

Hi

Thanks Dan and Jaz p for recent info. Maybe someday we will get a swim in the pool!!! Are you block 10 also Jaz P?
Has anyone any idea how long it will take for the licence decision? i.e. legal or illegal build. Months, weeks or years?
Keep in touch if you have any news.



Like 0      
09 Sep 2008 6:20 PM by Just Dan Star rating. 440 posts Send private message


Hi Logan
I am informed later this year and the reason the banks have not pulled the plug on the developer is because they are O.K with the fact that they will get left with the remaining apartments in this area at prices they can sell again when the legals are sorted.( well not O.K with it but taken with the rest of the mess its nothing like as bad as many other developments)
However the developers finances are such that nothing can be certain that they may go belly up tomorrow much like numerous others.
Informed that banking staff will have one of the first options to buy.
Anytime you need an update I have a dear solicitor friend in Marbella.
Logan .If you want to use the pool then will forward the fees payable to me of course

Same applies if you want some pictures and good luck with whatever decision you make.

Just Dan



Like 0      
10 Sep 2008 10:02 AM by JazP Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Hi Dan what is the situation with regards to utilities to the lower block as their is an issue around LFO is the developer providing this or not? Do you have a link that I can go to to view the pictures of the development?



Like 0      
10 Sep 2008 11:21 AM by Just Dan Star rating. 440 posts Send private message


Hi Jazp
Untilities in mine and other owners names for 2/3 + years now.
What you must remember is that L.F.Os are not in place 50,000 + homes in Marbella alone and it was never an issue really.for many many years( dont let solicitors tell you otherwise) Lets face it you have just found that out that many solicitors are just carrying on the gravy train ( they are the same solicitors after all)
Dont get me wrong there are some good and some good judges and they are as pi--ed off as anyone but trust the rest at your risk.
Many saying dont complete without one is of course correct in law but properties have been bought and sold (still are and without this)
Reason this has all come to the fore is the corruption got out of control and even the councils didnt have a clue what was being built.
Hence the new P.G.U plan which had to be taken by multi photos from a helecopter.
Banks have lent in the past/now and will in the future and Marbella may prove to be the one of the safest place to buy as others areas havent even started yet and the problems here may prove tiny in comparison.
Nothing on links to development pictures as the ones I have seen are the originals on the sales gumf or very outdated.

Regards

Just Dan





Like 0      
12 Sep 2008 3:10 PM by Just Dan Star rating. 440 posts Send private message


Hi Jaz P

Sorry I forgot there is a site that you can veiw some up to date pictures,though not as good as mine

There are 28 or so photos on a site from Holland
www.santamariagreenhills.nl

Dreadful place ,illegal,no habitation licence as you can see and no wonder people dont want to complete
Yep its a demolition job thats fer sure.


See Ya By The Pool 

Just Dan


This message was last edited by Just Dan on 9/12/2008.



Like 0      
12 Sep 2008 8:32 PM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Taken from another thread:

First Occupancy Licence


LAWBIRD LEGAL SERVICES
Friday 27th June 2008

What is it?

Upon the granting of the Certificate of End of Construction (CEC), the developer may apply for a First Occupancy Licence (spelled LFO or FLO for short, AKA as “Cédula de Habitabilidad” in some parts of Spain). The LFO is a an Administrative licence which the Town Hall where the development is located issues and validates that the development fully complies with the original Building Licence (BL) granted by that same town hall as well as complying fully with all Planning laws. The inspection to grant this Licence is carried out by town hall chartered technicians that certify that the dwelling fully complies with health, access, security, planning and construction laws and is deemed fully fit for human habitation.

No one can hurry up the granting of the LFO, neither the developer nor us the lawyers; its granting depends solely on the Spanish town hall’s civil servants. The Town Hall will allow time for the developer to mend any planning irregularities or pending work.


How long does a LFO take to be granted?


This will depend on various factors. If the town hall technicians detect irregularities in the development or deviations from the original BL then the LFO will be delayed until the developer fixes these problems. In a smaller town you can reasonably expect the LFO to be issued within a few months of having submitted the CEC providing the development has no major irregularities. In large cities, such as Marbella, the granting may be pulled back even six months or more due to the work overload of the Town Hall.

Why is it needed?

The owner of the property needs it because the official utilities that offer supplies (water, electricity, gas, telecommunications) require under Spanish law the LFO to hook up the dwelling to the supply grid. Although in some parts of Spain there have been reported cases of supply companies waiving this and connecting you without said Licence and may only require the application of having requested the LFO from the Town Hall.

Is every off-plan development issued a LFO?

Yes. A development is normally compromised by various phases as it’s built in various stages over time. For each of these phases a LFO may be granted by the town hall. So for example in a huge development of 300 units grouped in 4 phases there could be 4 LFO, one for each phase. This could well mean that even within the same finished development some properties may be legal (with a LFO granted) and others units are not habitable yet legally. You could only tell which are legal by means of hiring a lawyer who will advise you on the matter.

What risks are there if there is no LFO granted?

The lack of granting a LFO by the town hall after 2-3 years of having submitted the CEC normally underlies a serious problem. Said problem can arise from a myriad of causes such as planning problems (i.e. the development had only been granted a BL for two storey’s and four have been built or the property has been built in an area zoned as Green Belt), it could mean there might be a health hazard because there is a breach of the Health law (i.e. the sewage pipeline is incorrectly laid out).

One of the most recent cases occurred in the peaceful town of Catral in Valencia, Costa Blanca, developments have been finished and sold without the LFO granted. 1.200 houses are now deemed illegal. It turns out many of those dwellings were built within the perimeter of a National Park zoned as Green Belt land. The Government has announced that it will pull them down.

I have read that completion without a LFO is illegal.

This is a common misconception. Completion on a property, before a Spanish Notary Public without a LFO is legal in Spain and the property will be lodged under your name at the land registry. However, it is not legal to occupy/live in a property without the mandatory Administrative LFO. So basically you legally own a dwelling which is uninhabitable legally until the LFO is granted by the Town Hall. Many off-plan purchasers on having waited for years on end until the granting of their LFO or with no prospects of it ever being granted due to Planning illegalities have decided to litigate and obtain a full refund of their stage payments in fear of the developers going into receivership.


What are the associated problems of completing on a property without a LFO?

Although it is legal to complete in such a case, it has numerous legal and practical drawbacks which ought to be highlighted by your lawyer to aid you in making an informed decision. To name a few:

• Primarily, you will not be able to take out a mortgage on the property or remortgage it - if needed be- by any bank other than the developers.

• You will not be able to benefit from the official utility supplies; only from the developers supplies (water and electricity) with all the associated problems this has, namely that you may be cut off at any time as it’s the developer who is paying for it and if they go into receivership you will be cut off. Besides this, the site supply electricity doesn’t have the same strength and power surges are fairly common if simultaneously turning on various electrical appliances such as a/c.

• Any future prospective purchaser, or their lawyer, will haggle with you and only pay a lower purchase price if you lack a LFO. In a resale, the purchasers in turn will undergo the same problems to secure finance by means of a mortgage loan. A lack of a LFO implies that you are actually reducing the base of potential purchasers for your resale.

• If there are planning issues, the town hall can set a charge against the property and you as the new owner of an off-plan –and not the developer- may be held liable to pay the fine for the planning illegality.

• Needless to say, you cannot let a property without a LFO.

CONCLUSION

It is generally recommendable to complete in off-plans only if a LFO is in place having being granted by the town hall. However there are exceptions to this general rule.

If the development complies fully with all the required planning permissions, you lack a Bank Guarantee, there’s no ruling affecting the BL due to planning issues and there is a high risk of the developer filing for bankruptcy in the near future, it would be advisable to complete. You would still have to wait until the LFO is granted to live in it but at least now there is no risk of you losing your funds if the developer becomes bankrupt.

Until completion the property belongs to the developer.
So if you still have not completed and the developer becomes insolvent the property lodged under his name may be seized by the developers’ bank or any other creditor that places a charge on it at the land registry. If you have no Bank Guarantee and afore happens it is then very likely you will forfeit your down payments. However, cases differ and require a case-by-case study by your appointed lawyer.









Like 0      
12 Sep 2008 9:05 PM by Just Dan Star rating. 440 posts Send private message


Hi Tish
Did you have a nice holiday

What Tish has posted is correct and no one should complete without the habitation licence.( Dont do it as yer as stupid as me)
I am the last person to say someone should as long as they have a plan B as this stupid person couldnt come up with one ( Surely not the legal system)Trust my deposit to a lottery bent judge or risk loosing it when the developer goes tits up.
Yep. I cant live or stay in my apartment and I cant let it and thats the case for 50,000.00 + properties in Marbella alone that have been occupied and rented over the distant past.
Now these stupid Banks have lent all of this money in mortgages on properties that are worthless and the they are stupid enough to lend again when this property that someone wasnt supposed to live in or rent is sold. again
If anyone knows the Costas then they may know the La Canada Mall in Marbella now someone tell them that their business property is iIlegal for the same reason. 

There is a wonderful set of laws and this indeed is one of them,however fact is that like laws generally on developments in Spain no one appears to give a toss unless there is money involved.

STILL THE ADVICE IS CORRECT AND I WISH ALL WELL IN CASHING IN THAT BANK  GUARANTEE.

Just Dan







Like 0      
13 Sep 2008 8:58 AM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Hi Dan,
You asked: 

Hi Tish
Did you have a nice holiday

In a word ,
NO!!!    My 20 month old grandaughter got chicken-pox. It was stinking hot so had to stay in air conditioned apartment!  we had about 5 days on the beach before she went down with it . It was such a shame as she loved the sea and sand.  My daughter and grandaughter are still there as they were  not allowed to fly home  with us.  Nightmare!  VERY VERY expensive in Majorca too.




Like 0      
13 Sep 2008 9:49 AM by Just Dan Star rating. 440 posts Send private message


Oh Sh-t
Sorry to hear that Tish
What a bloody shame. Hope the little one is better soon as thats want really matters

Just Dan

 





Like 0      
13 Sep 2008 10:30 AM by Tish Star rating in Surrey. 833 posts Send private message

Thanks Dan. Hopefully the doctor will say they can fly home on Monday/Tuesday.

Apologies for "off -Topic" convo.



Like 0      

Pages: Previous | 1 | 2 |

Post reply    Start new thread


Previous Threads

Roguey - 0 posts
Anyone see an audience with Neil diamond on ITV ? - 4 posts
Manyana muy bien para mi. - 1 posts
IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR SELF EMPLOYED PEOPLE IN SPAIN - 3 posts
Excelente manyana - 2 posts
Please Take Note!!!! This Happened - 1 posts
Garden Furniture August 2008 - 2 posts
coming to spain - 0 posts
Cancellation of contract - 5 posts
Caravan registration & Insurance - 3 posts
Manolo's restaurant, Campo de Guardamar, CB - 1 posts
Coming soon: new facility for Halifax bank: International Electronic Funds Transfers online - 0 posts
Budapest.................... - 2 posts
Moving costs - 2 posts
Indulge me... Jodie is Nancy...yessssssssssssssssssssss - 18 posts
have a look - 3 posts
What do i need to do before being allowed to take my Rottweiler into Spain - 10 posts
Taking my 2 dogs, 1 parrot a snake and a lizard to Alicante - 32 posts
EASYJET WARNING !! (NOT JUST EASYJET, there's INTERFLORA, EXPEDIA, VISTAPRINT, ALLPOSTERS, NATIONAL EXPRESS etc) - 20 posts
one for the EOS team or an old hand - 3 posts
Shopper Discounts and Easy Jet WARNING!! - 24 posts
Restaurants in Elviria? - 22 posts
Made to Measure Curtains - La Cala De Mijas area - 2 posts
Flights from Luton, Gatwick or Stanstead to Almera or Murcia ??? - 3 posts
LHD Conversion - 13 posts

Number of posts in this thread: 35

DISCLAIMER:  All opinions posted on these message boards are the opinion solely of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Eye on Spain, its servants or agents.


1 | 2 |
Our Weekly Email Digest
Name:
Email:


This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse you are agreeing to our use of cookies. More information here. x