Community Debts

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02 Oct 2020 19:18 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

03 Oct 2020 13:02 by Marksfish Star rating in Vera, Almeria. 2575 posts Send private message

Marksfish´s avatar

Trying to make sense of it. Does it mean that debts are written off ater 5 years, or that a community has 5 years to begin a pursuuit of payment?





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03 Oct 2020 13:15 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1035 posts Send private message

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Looks to me like the debt is dead at 5 years old. Great news for serial debtors, not so good for those who pay.



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03 Oct 2020 14:15 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

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I think a Statute of Limitations means you have up to 5 years to chase the debt NOT that the debt is dead after 5 years.

All Communities should approve debt collection at all AGMs and if sufficient, proceedings such as a Monitorio should be used to commence the legal process in Spain OR use debt collection agencies in U.K.

If action is taken promptly the existing old debt remains live and new Monitorios can be commenced every year until the legal case is resolved.

Unless of course anyone thinks differently.





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03 Oct 2020 16:17 by Marksfish Star rating in Vera, Almeria. 2575 posts Send private message

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I hope the latter is right. Our community unfortunately, seems to have some stubborn debtors and we are due many 000's of Euro. The administrators aren't very successful in recovery of the large debts for some reason, but are quick to chase if you are a few cents short of a payment when the amount changes sad.





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03 Oct 2020 16:27 by nitram Star rating in castalla. 172 posts Send private message

We are just going through this now, prior to 7 October 2020 15 years of debt can be recovered , however  as of the 7 October only debt from the last 5 years may be recorved this came law in the BOE in 2015 giving Communitys 5 years to sort there Debt recovery out, however my understanding is  if a Burofax is sent prior to the 7 October 2020 it is deemed that collection of community fees has started for the previos 15 years, So any community having meetings in the next 3 days get this on your AGM and vote to start legl proccedings, or loose previous years , good luck 





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03 Oct 2020 16:32 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

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Markfish

You have to insist that the Administrator commences a Monitorio process in Spanish Courts, not quick but it will eventually put a charge on the property which cannot be sold or change hands without this being settled.

Of course if company owned who may be in Administration then the Community is listed as a Creditor so will eventually see some repayment IF and when the property is ever repossessed or sold at auction.

You can commence a new Monitorio every year IF the debt remains, just sit and wait fir the courts which are snowed under in Spain.





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03 Oct 2020 16:41 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

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Nitram 

Im amazed that any Community would allow a debt to continue for 5 years let alone 15. 🤷‍♂️
why on Earth would a Community not commence a legal claim more promptly?





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04 Oct 2020 10:26 by nitram Star rating in castalla. 172 posts Send private message

Hugh _man agree with you, in our community we have hardly no Communel Elements, no Pool, Gardens Security etc, we do not employe a Administrator we do it ourselves,our  fees are only 20.00 euros a year per property to cover Public Liablity Inscurance, Bank Charges, so the owners who do pay there fees cover this, 





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04 Oct 2020 12:23 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

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Yeah a slightly different scenario to Communities with lots of facilities and where fees can be €1000 plus per year.

A Monitorio will cost in the region of €1200 but cost can be added to the debt, but only worth considering once the debt exceeds this figure and the Spanish know this well, as well as the fact that action against debtors has to be approved annually at AGMs,  hence they can be slow payers.





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04 Oct 2020 13:54 by nitram Star rating in castalla. 172 posts Send private message

After sending off a Burofax Preimum 35.00 euros, if a owner has not paid Moitorio at court 100.00 euros, sit back and wait Hopefully for community fees to be paid .





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04 Oct 2020 17:56 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

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Sounds simple, I agree but Spanish courts can take months even years for the Monitorio to be considered and even if granted, it is still not straightforward for the Community to get its money. You may still need an enforcement order to get payment and that's only if the debtor has other assets to utilise. A long hard process. 🤷‍♂️





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04 Oct 2020 20:50 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1035 posts Send private message

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I think you are correct; the serial debtor could play the game for many years. UK assets can be very difficult to access from a foreign country, especially if the debtor knows what he/she is doing and has a good solicitor.



_______________________
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04 Oct 2020 21:17 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

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Kavanagh

Absolutely correct. We did finally take one U.K. debtor to court using European Order in U.K. who owed us €6000 using a U.K. solicitor.

Despite many offers to reach a deal the debtor had to pay over €11000 due to County court ruling and collection costs and they had U.K. assets.

Much quicker process than Spanish system but still a lot of work.

Biggest problem in either country is if debtor has no other assets or is a company in Administration.





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18 Dec 2020 18:23 by hugh_man Star rating in Kent/Roda . 1593 posts Send private message

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Once again Spanish banks, this time Santander, doing all they can to delaying paying Community Fees on properties they repossessed and rented out but changed the ownership of the landlord company.

Received today after chasing for some time.....

Good afternoon, 

 

I hope you and your families are all well. 

Unfortunately I do not have the good news I was hoping to have in December. 

I have been continuously chasing the block 38 properties and while initially it started off well it has since gone downhill.

After accepting the debt they have now said that they have not yet completed the process and that the person in charge has left so I am now on the third person. They are now still processing. 

If possible I would like to request a debtors meeting (a ZOOM meeting) in January 2021 to revise P12 options and debtors and take further action where required. I have asked ABAD to look at proceeding options. 

 

 





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