Won appeal court hearing!

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18 Jul 2019 00:00 by fazarelli Star rating. 279 posts Send private message

Just been told that i've won the appeal court hearing against the banks, in an off-plan deposit court case.

I have to wait 20 business days to find out if the banks will appeal. However, isnt there a long holiday in August? Can someone tell me when 20 business days will be please?

Also, for the banks to go to Supreme Court, dont they have to have a reason that isnt coverd by exisiting case law? Im wondering what the chances of this getting to Supreme court (which i've heard can take about 3 years!)?

 

Thanks for any advice/ knowledge.





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18 Jul 2019 06:00 by ads Star rating. 3897 posts Send private message

Fazerelli,

Congratulations on your provincial court appeal win,😀 but your concern about the Bank’s response to a claimant’s successful appeal is understandable going forward, given there are instances where the Banks continue to contest provincial court appeals (in the form of a Cassation appeal) to the Supreme Court. They appear to have 20 days in which to submit their Cassation appeal for submission to the SC, but I suspect that Court holidays are taken into account in this regard.

As far as I am aware the Bank lay down their legal reasons for contesting the claimant’s successful appeal ruling, which is classed as a “submission” as opposed to “admission” to the Supreme Court. This means that until the SC get the opportunity to review the Bank’s Cassation appeal in detail ( which results in a significant delay) the successful claimant is left in a “legal limbo “, so to speak.

Only at that point is the decision made if the Bank’s Cassation appeal actually qualifies for admission. This could be for instance if there are deemed to be outstanding legal elements of doubt, perhaps due to other judicial contra rulings that have been found in favour of the Bank.

Only if it is subsequently admitted to the SC then the claimant’s legal representatives have 20 days to respond to the Bank’s Cassation appeal, which results in yet  further delays before a final SC ruling is achieved.

If the Bank’s Cassation appeal is subsequently NOT considered applicable for admission, however, then the claimant’s previous successful provincial appeal stands as a final ruling, at which point ( albeit delayed by the period of time it has taken since the Bank first submitted their Cassation appeal ) the principal amount and awards such as costs and interest relative to that successful ruling are then submitted for enforcement ( further delay). But once again I suspect there is an opportunity for the Banks to query the awards if for some reason the costs/ interest are not in line with legal rulings.

Hopefully Maria will confirm/ clarify if this is a correct understanding of the scenario or not, and perhaps kindly also advise given current SC backlogs

 a) how long the SC is currently taking between submission and admission

b) if admitted, how long thereafter between admission and a final SC ruling is achieved

c) how long after final ruling to achieve return of principal, costs/ interest where applicable.

Needless to say there are instances where the Banks do not contest successful appeal rulings to SC level, but when they do it is cause for ongoing concern when their appeals are subsequently not deemed applicable for admission to the SC, given the major impact on claimant’s timely return of monies. 

It would also be interesting to know if there is now a growing instance of Banks contesting claimants successful provincial appeals to SC level, and under what specific legal circumstances? Is this due to a shift in new interim SC rulings in favour of the Banks?

I hope this helps a little Fazerelli if only to help clarify what appears a complex scenario, and sincere thanks in advance if Maria can assist in this regard.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 18/07/2019.



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18 Jul 2019 11:02 by fazarelli Star rating. 279 posts Send private message

Wow! Thanks for the great reply ads!

 

I didnt realise the exact implications of this. I never considered that the SC has to devote some time and resources to the banks' legal submission, before it will then allow the admission.

So, it's going to be, what, 12 months to consider the submission? Then maybe a 12 month delay to get the admission heard? Then possibly another 12 months to consider the evidence and reach a verdict? Then possibly another 12 months to agree on final award of costs and interests? 4 years realisticly? Or could it be much less than that? At least i'll be getting 4% interest on the money, i assume?





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20 Jul 2019 15:46 by jerryb Star rating in UK. 15 posts Send private message

Hi Fazarelli,

I feel your pain and anguish, as I suspect many others do.

I won my case and received my lost deposit in Sept 2016, where I was advised that the bank had appealed to the Supreme Court.

I have paid out more legal fees in order to defend their appeal, only to be reminded that if the SC rules in favour of the bank, not only would I have to pay them back MY money, but may have to cover their legal fees as well as my fees.

The waiting is the hard part, sometimes feeling positive, sometimes negative, this must all have a detrimental health effect.

We must live in hope, I have 2 cases on the go, double the anguish, but will carry on until the end





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20 Jul 2019 16:41 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 704 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

It takes a brave foreigner with deep pockets to take on a Spanish bank in a Spanish court. There is only one guaranteed winner and that’s the upfront paid Spanish lawyer who probably got you in this mess from the start.



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20 Jul 2019 18:40 by ads Star rating. 3897 posts Send private message

Or might it be the powerful Bank that relies upon major delays and an under resourced justice system ( both against the rule of law), as they submit unrelenting purposeful appeals to try and disincentivise rightful claims, until such time as doctrine is established?

Brave is the correct term, as many who acted as pioneers ( both respected legal teams who took over from questionable firms, and determined claimants) have led the way for others to follow, once doctrine has been established...all too easy to forget those whose took on the Banks and finally won. But as Maria has identified, still much to do!!!

All one can hope for is that the Spanish judiciary and SC stand true to their tradition and don’t bow to protectionist pressures ( again part of the rule of law).

Time will tell but all eyes are focused on the detail in this regard.

Banks must be made accountable for their malpractices that have decimated trust. The alternative doesn’t bear thinking about if they are allowed to run roughshod over those supposedly protected according to inalienable rights.





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20 Jul 2019 18:58 by fazarelli Star rating. 279 posts Send private message

Kavanagh, you're making a lot of assumptions there, and most of them are wrong. Weve had this discussion before, but for some reason you insist on bringing it up everytime. You're adding nothing to the thread.





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30 Sep 2019 19:26 by fazarelli Star rating. 279 posts Send private message

OK, some of you may be pleased to hear (and some wont be, sadly), that I have been informed that the banks have decided NOT to appeal the last judgement. So, that means they have to pay back the 50k plus interest that they owe me. My solicitor says that it may only take a few weeks or could take a few months if we have to get a court order to force them to pay up. However, they will have to pay legal interest of 3% plus 2% until it's paid. So, hopefully they'll pay up soon (I aint dying anytime soon, which some people might be disappointed to hear).

One interesting thing that my solicitor said, was that the court told the banks that they wouldn't accept another appeal from them. I'm assuming this is because of SC doctrine.

 

Anyway, 16 years i've been waiting for this day! I also hope that everybody else gets their money back soon, too.





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30 Sep 2019 22:00 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 704 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Well done fazarelli.



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ALWAYS BE POLITE & FRIENDLY. PLEASE AVOID ARGUMENTS & CONFRONTATIONS. PLEASE PM ME IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE. Donate to save the children



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01 Oct 2019 10:11 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9209 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Congratulations Fazzarelli!!!!

You can find a chart of legal interests here: https://clientebancario.bde.es/pcb/es/menu-horizontal/productosservici/relacionados/tiposinteres/guia-textual/tiposinteresrefe/Tabla_tipos_de_interes_legal.html

The Court delay interests of provision 576 of the Civil Procedure Act are of legal interests plus 2 points and are applied by Courts from date of First Instance Court decission

M



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El blog de Maria



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01 Oct 2019 11:36 by ads Star rating. 3897 posts Send private message

Great news Fazerelli, and provides hope to those still fighting for their rights.

But as Maria has previously identified there is still much to do. So all eyes must remain focused on further SC rulings or non admission of cassation appeals for those claimants still facing ongoing challenges by those Banks who are still not recognising the supportive majority case law achieved from appeal rulings.

 Hopefully the SC decisions in this regard will reflect supportive clarification and application of Ley 57/68 law in line with  majority case law, so that finally SC doctrine is achieved with regard to ALL aspects of this law.   

The peicemeal nature of the Banks ongoing challenges should not be underestimated, and remains a thorn in the side of achieving FULL  protections and recognition of inalienable rights that ironically were intended from the outset of this law Ley 57/68.

 





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01 Oct 2019 11:59 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9209 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Very right, Ads

M



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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01 Oct 2019 16:19 by sandra Star rating in . 797 posts Send private message

sandra´s avatar

Great news Fazarelli, you have waited a long time for justice so let us hope the bank pays up without further delays.

Congratulations to you and your lawyers for not giving up until you got the  justice you expected from a fellow EU member country when you first handed over the funds. Thank you for posting this message. As ads says, it gives hope to those of us still fighting.

 



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