Just received an embargo on a house – looking for advice please

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24 Mar 2018 02:54 by sunnybunny Star rating in Cambodia. 2 posts Send private message

20 years ago I owned a freehold property in Spain and sold it to a friend , I had a escritura  drawn up by an abogado  , The legal agreement was that the friend would make monthly repayments over a 25 year period  and the property would then become their property . For the last 20 years there have been no problems with that agreement and all payments have been prompt and paid. 

Over the past 20 years there have been no other demands or letters from the Ayuntamiento.

As I understand it when I sold the property the abogado had to check that the property was free from any outstanding debts , before it could be sold by law . Once the property had been cleared as debt free by the abogado , the sale then was allowed to proceed . So in my mind there were no outstanding debts associated to the property when it was sold. 


At the property address in Spain a letter has just arrived  which seems to say that the Ayuntamiento have now put an embargo on the property .

This is what the letter says ...........................................................

After the deadline established in art. 62.5 of December. General Tax to effect the entry of the aforementioned debts shall be carried out in compliance with the mandate contained in the order for the seizure of the property and rights that may proceed,

Under the provisions of art.162.1 and 169 of the General Tax Law is REQUIRED for the term of TEN DAYS to provide information on the property and rights of their property that effectively and promptly guarantees the amount of the tax debt persecuted

Failure to meet this requirement in the term will proceed without further seizure of their property in Tax function

 

Spanis Version ..........................

Transcurrido el plazo establecido en el art. 62.5 de la diciembre. General Tributaria para efectuar elingreso de las citadas deudas se procedera en cumplimiento del mandato contenidoen la providencia de apremio al embargo de los bienes y derechos que procedan, 

En virtud de lo dispuesto en los art.162.1 y 169 de la ley General Tributaria se le REQUIERE para que el plazo de DIEZ DIAS aporte  informacion relativa a los bienes  y derechos de su propiedad que garantice con eficacia y prontitud el importe de la deuda tributaria perseguida 

De no atender el presente requerimiento en el plazo se procedera sin mas al embargo de sus bienes en funcio Tributaria

------------------ End 

 

 

I left Spain after the sale of my property 20 years ago to live in another country and have not returned since .

 My friend lives in the property and like my self is not to sure how to proceed and sort this out . Has any one an idea why an embargo seems to have been placed on the property if at the time of its sale it was debt free .

The amount shown on the embargo is 800 Euro .

Any advice or susgestions would be  appreciated  

 

 


This message was last edited by sunnybunny on 24/03/2018.



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24 Mar 2018 07:54 by windtalker Star rating. 1634 posts Send private message

Its obvious that you or your friend has not paid a bill...go and see a solicitor ..they will find out who is making the claim against you ...you pay the bill and the embargo will be lifted.





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24 Mar 2018 08:38 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 884 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Hello sunnybunny

''Has any one an idea why an embargo seems to have been placed on the property if at the time of its sale it was debt free .''

How could anyone on here know that. Mystic Meg is not a member. Your mate needs to go to the Ayuntamiento and ask what it’s all about.

Is this another spoof post?.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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24 Mar 2018 09:12 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

First point of call is the 800 euros.     Who claims you owe it and what for.

you mention tax?.    

Second is, if it’s a valid claim you have overlooked, it’s cheaper to pay 800 euros than hire solicitors to fight it?

Third is, try and reform the Spanish property system (long shot but you would be doing everyone a favour).  



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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24 Mar 2018 10:36 by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 759 posts Send private message

Why on earth, 20 years after selling this property, should this debt be anything to do with you. Rubbish. Your pal has forgotten to pay for a tax collected by the council.

Planning application, road tax , IBI or something else charged to the property

Am amazed that after owning this property in Spain for so long your friend doesn't know how to proceed with this debt without contacting you in Cambodia.

 





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24 Mar 2018 11:22 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1838 posts Send private message

IBI none payment is my best bet or other local taxes. Is your friend a resident of Spain? Has he paid the none resident taxes due? If the property has been legally transfered the debt is his not yours.

A friend of mind found out recently when he tried to sell his car that he owed 5 years road tax. He had no idea cars were taxed in Spain.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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24 Mar 2018 11:56 by lobin Star rating. 245 posts Send private message

Just to clarify the issue a bit more, the debt that have caused the embargo does not necessarily have anything to do with the property itself.  Even if the property was debt free when the transfer took place, it is still liable to a subsequent nonpayment of any tax, even if, for example, income tax not associated  with the property but to the registered owner.  Therefore, you cannot assume that this debt has anything to do with the property.

You need to determine what is the concept of the 800 euro debt and who the debtor is, whether you or the person you sold it to.  It is not entirely clear in your opening post, whether the Escritura transfering the property was registered in the Property Registry.  If not, vis a vis the tax authorities (and any other creditor in Spain) the property is still yours and subject to embargo if you do not meet your tax payments of any nature.

Someone wrote that it is cheaper just to pay the 800 euros and have the embargo removed than to hire a lawyer to investigate things and then resolve the problem by having to pay the 800 euros anyway on top of his fees.





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24 Mar 2018 13:32 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5239 posts Send private message

There is always a possibility it is a mistake

Last year I noticed the IBI had not been taken by DD from my son's  bank for a property.

I checked with the town hall, and the short version, their records incorrectly showed the property had been sold.

 

SUNNY I  hope there is a similar expalantion for you





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24 Mar 2018 16:45 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

I think I mentioned the first thing to do is find out what it’s for.  

Ask for the demand paperwork and clarify what it’s for.    Very first thing to do.  



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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24 Mar 2018 18:04 by sunnybunny Star rating in Cambodia. 2 posts Send private message

Thanks to every one for your advice and comments its much appreciated 

 I have emailed my friend and they are going to the local Ayuntamento to see what they can find out , but my friend seems to think that the debt in question ( 800 Euro ) was due to me not paying some past Tax / government payment. The thing I can't understand is why after all this time ( 20 years ) has an embargo demand requesting that the outstanding amount be paid within 10 days , just arrived when there's been no previous letters arriving at the property address requesting some sort of payment .

My friend assures me he has been paying all requested government payments . He is a permanent resident in Spain .

The Escritura transferring the property is registered in the Property Registry department .

 
I will post back the information that my friend finds out .

 Sunny  





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24 Mar 2018 18:39 by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 759 posts Send private message

So presumably this demand was been addressed to you with your friend signing for it !

Think you will find that your friend has 10 working days to find out what the embargo is for and afterwards a courier from the tributaria, as would have already happened with this notice, will deliver the factura to the property ensuring this bill can be paid through the bank.

Similar thing happened to us recently. It was for a revision to an agreed planning application our architect sent to townhall 6 years ago ( they had adjusted the date to 4 years to conform to regs)🙄 when it was realised there was a fee to pay. 

However think something that might have occurred more than 20 years ago is stretching it ..a bit.

 Keep us informed





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24 Mar 2018 18:41 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1838 posts Send private message

When it comes to legal process in Spain 20 years is but a short time.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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24 Mar 2018 18:57 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5239 posts Send private message

Generally speaking in spain one cannot claim a payment,  including taxes, if more than four years have elapsed.   The only exception is if steps had been taken within that time to start the claim.  

 

People get away with inheritance tax if the authorities do not discover that the person has died, with the four years

 

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 24/03/2018.



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24 Mar 2018 20:25 by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 759 posts Send private message

So true John. Because of that,when confronted with the notice from tributaria abt a debt, we hadn’t a clue what it was for.

It was delivered by courier, last December.  everything on it, including details of the property, and owner, were correct.  As per the law we were given 10 working days to check details.

It was,as we guessed, a planning revision.....which was only for the council records correcting an error by our architect.

It was sent to townhall in 2012.  Slip of the pen 🙄 it’s 2017 ..and hey presto...outstanding amount for €250 + . 

Was annoyed, particularly the interest, because the fault wasn't ours...but had to concede it did relate to our build and when the courier returned beginning of this month with factura we settled immediately.

Have no idea if this will be same for OP but until he gets a copy of what the embargo is for from his friend,  neither does he or anyone else.

Just think 20 + years difference  is going to difficult to alter.

Hopefully we will get to know.

ps..actually wondering if this is for a driving offence. These easily run into hundreds of euros.

 

 

 


This message was last edited by floella on 24/03/2018.



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09 Apr 2018 15:57 by floella Star rating in SE Spain. 759 posts Send private message

Well, mañana, the 10 days to check legitimacy of this embargo, are well and truly up and forum still await outcome of next exciting episode.....

 

 





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