can I chase the dream

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18 Jan 2016 7:38 PM by blue1963 Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

Hi All

I;m told that I would have a less stressful lifestyle by giving up the modern business life. Though I own a holiday appartment out there it might not be the best to retire to, but there are some great rural properties which I can envisage the quiet life. I have three questions, before I push too hard.

1) how much is medical ensurance out there, Valencia region. i'm 53.

2) Would I be able to survive on 1100 - 1200 euro a month. Single person no mortgage 

3) How would the taxes work out as most of y income would be from property rentals in the UK

 

Many thanks

 

Mark





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19 Jan 2016 7:23 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

Blue1963

Your income would need to be declared in spain and pay appropriate tax and autonomous you will then get full health care. 

Personal tax limits are different and autonomous payments are about 250 euros per month. There is reduced figure for new start ups but this may be limited to certain ages not sure

You could survive on what you say depends on your needs etc

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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19 Jan 2016 9:39 AM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

Blue,    If you are not conversant with the tax laws, I suggest you take look at the Double Taxation Agreement between Spain and UK;  re taxation of immovable property, at :- 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/412302/spain-dtc.pdf

In particular   Article 6 re income from rental properties.

I





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19 Jan 2016 10:49 AM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1836 posts Send private message

You would be able to 'survive' with your income in Spain but with health care reductions and taxation survive would be all you could do. Utility costs are quite high. Winters in Valencia, especially in the campo are cold. Heating your home would be a major cost. You need to ask yourself what your priorities are in life. If you have few needs then your income will be sufficient.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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19 Jan 2016 4:13 PM by hughjardon Star rating in Jaywick Sands. 418 posts Send private message

hughjardon´s avatar

Our life is totally stress free we are living the dream in camposol we live on half that we dont pay any taxes or rates you are best just coming over renting and not registering for anything pay cash for everything if you do get ill just have someone to take you back to UK you can get a roast dinner and a pint for 6 euros down the road perfect most brits are mugs when they retire here registering and worrying about paying this and that youve just got to be like the Spanish dim on the outside but be clever inside.

Oh and never tell anyone your real name thats a must 

Love Hughsie xxx

 


This message was last edited by hughjardon on 19/01/2016.

_______________________
Done the Spain thing Happier in the UK



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19 Jan 2016 4:59 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2312 posts Send private message

 

Our life is totally stress free we are living the dream in camposol we live on half that we dont pay any taxes or rates you are best just coming over renting and not registering for anything pay cash for everything if you do get ill just have someone to take you back to UK you can get a roast dinner and a pint for 6 euros down the road perfect most brits are mugs when they retire here registering and worrying about paying this and that youve just got to be like the Spanish dim on the outside but be clever inside.

Oh and never tell anyone your real name thats a must 

What a strange posting, the original poster wanted to know about coming to Spain to live a pretty much  stress free and better lifestyle and the best you can come up with is how to fiddle the system big-time, with worry that sooner or later you will be caught out.

You're so called stress free lifestyle wouldn't be so stress free should someone snitch on you, but of course you must believe that no one knows you, what you do and where you are,  because in this day and age of big brother keeping tabs on everyone they somehow failed and missed you.

Maybe read your own above post again to see the flaws in what you say you can do.

Perhaps your either trying to take the p**s out of the posters on here that want to give honest reliable advice, or really not doing any of what you say.

I believe the p**s bit because if you do honestly believe your not known then more the fool you.





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19 Jan 2016 5:04 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

 Hugh for your sake I hope the police, your town hall or Hacienda don't read these posts, as they might come looking for you to ensure you pay your share so that we who do pay don't have to pay extra, to make up for the parasites. Opps, for who those don't pay.

 

Oh and never tell anyone your real name thats a must 

And hope that a law enforcement group don't look your posts which are very easily traceable back to the poster, because unlike some, THEY are not stupid





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19 Jan 2016 5:25 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

i think hugh is trying to be funny or taking teh p**S and sadly not a very good attemptwink

if not and he is serious I would have to say

very sad

not helpful

probably complains about all the scroungers, immigrants and tax fiddlers etc in the UK

and his post typifies the expat abroad stereotype attitude which sad to say many actually do what he is saying and they get away with it for years and years without being caught (I know many here in LM) -  highlighting how poor the authorites in Spain actually are at clamping down on tax fiddlers etc



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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19 Jan 2016 5:34 PM by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 646 posts Send private message

He's a wum.   Don't engage. 





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19 Jan 2016 5:40 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2312 posts Send private message

Have to agree Tadd, many do it for years and do seem to get away with it for years...The smart one's anyway, perhaps not the bragging ones on open forums though, this forum has a couple of lawyer types, a couple of police types, who might just care for a whisper here and there.

 





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19 Jan 2016 5:58 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4554 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Not sure how helpful Hughjardon's post is to the OP (you never know - it all depends how you define the "Dream") but at least it gave me a good laugh!

I was chatting a to an English bloke I vaguely know in a local bar yesterday - he calls himself Tony, although that's probably not his real name ;-) He was ranting about the €700 fine he had just been to pay, and the extra €160 he was ordered to pay on top, he knew not what for, after having his UK registered car confiscated by the police last week, who knew when they stopped him that it had a SORN. He has lived here on and off for about 30 years, and claims to have lost about 25 cars this way during that time, but insists he will never get a Spanish registered car because he refuses to get an NIE. I suspect he does not want to have any traceable links to Spain, because it could seriously affect his UK benefits if it could be proved that he's actually living here.

Living The Dream! 



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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19 Jan 2016 6:13 PM by sox Star rating. 81 posts Send private message

Tadd 1966,  Why would they pay autonomous ?

I would also like to retire to Spain and being in my mid fifties

know I have to pay taxes and have private health but wasn't aware of autonomous

Payments......??

 





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19 Jan 2016 6:47 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

sox

In order to pay tax on your income you would need to register as an employee of a company or register self employed (autonomo) and pay the equivalent of NI contibutions (social security contributions).

If employed in Spain then as in the UK the employer and the employee both pay social security contributions

Autonomo is self employed effectively and you pay social security contributions

I am not sure how this works if your retired early on a pension and / or live on savings (paying tax on your income of course)



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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19 Jan 2016 7:08 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4554 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

No offence meant, but this sounds like the kind of nonsense I regularly hear down the local bar. As is evident from my posts, I'm an advocate for doing the right thing, but registering a (non-trading) commercial entity and paying autonomo - why would you want to do that?

In order to pay tax (in Spain) on your UK income, all you need to do is be a (fiscal) resident and file an annual tax return (IRPF)

Of course, you may wish to make voluntary NI contributions in the UK if you have less than 35 years in the bank, but this is optional (voluntary!)



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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19 Jan 2016 8:30 PM by sox Star rating. 81 posts Send private message

 

Thank you Roberto, that is what I have been advised, but was concerned by Tadd 1966 post !!

( so would not need to pay autonomous ). 

 


This message was last edited by sox on 19/01/2016.



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19 Jan 2016 9:10 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

Roberto

No offense taken but maybe you mis read what I said in my post

I am not sure how this works if your retired early on a pension and / or live on savings (paying tax on your income of course)

 and in that I guess I meant non trading

Sox did not mention what income he would have etc. to retire so I tried to cover as much as possible as briefly as I could

However, the OP stated that he would have an income from renting property

most of y income would be from property rentals in the UK

which I assume is via some form of legal entity in the UK (self employed, sole trader, Ltd company etc.) and therefore when he becomes a resident of Spain he would be subject to tax and scosial security contributions in Spain on his income from his property rentals as he is trading in some way and it cannot be a non trading commercial entity in UK or Spain if he is receiving income.

Maybe setting up a non trading commercial entity as you call it in Spain and paying autonomo, payments for autonomo are NOT linked to earnings as in the UK. I am not sure if this would be allowed but I see no resaon why it would not - simple nil income return nil tax, and it might be cheaper than private health insurance especially if you have existing conditions and / or dependants moving with you that may put premiums beyond reach

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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19 Jan 2016 9:43 PM by windtalker Star rating. 1902 posts Send private message

If you registered as self employed in Spain cost around 45 EU pw you will get Spanish healthcare so no need for private health care.you will also have to pay income tax on you're UK rented property to the Spanish tax man good luck with you're dream you will get by on 1000eu pm easy with no mortgage or rent payment's to find.

 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 19/01/2016.



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20 Jan 2016 10:52 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9389 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Mark:

Of course you can chase the dream!

Answering your questions below in bold green ( same text as your email):

1) how much is medical ensurance out there, Valencia region. i'm 53. You can have good private  medical insurance for less than 80€ a month approx. Possibilities depend on current state of health

2) Would I be able to survive on 1100 - 1200 euro a month. Single person no mortgage. I think you can. 

3) How would the taxes work out as most of y income would be from property rentals in the UK. If you become Spanish resident, those incomes tax need to be paid here in Spain

 



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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20 Jan 2016 1:33 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4554 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Tadd: "the OP stated that he would have an income from renting property...which I assume is via some form of legal entity in the UK (self employed, sole trader, Ltd company etc.)"

Why assume that? Perhaps he's just a private landlord. But even if his property is held in a company, why then would he have to pay social security contributions in Spain? That makes no sense to me.

His rental income will be taxed in the UK, even though he is resident in Spain, and he will also have to declare it, and is liable for tax on it in Spain - but UK tax paid will be taken into consideration, when he files his Spanish income tax declaration, under the double tax treaty. If the property is held by a company, he may be better off taking his income in the form of dividends, as I believe these are treated favourably in Spain - but I'm not certain so he would be best getting advice from a professional. 

I'm not sure about Windtalker's €45 p/w autonomo payments - it was much more when I last paid it, but if you can get a good private health insurance for Maria's €80 / month, that would seem like a better option anyway - although obviously you would have to pay full price for any prescriptions.

 



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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20 Jan 2016 2:29 PM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

Roberto even if the OP is  a private landlord he must be registered somehow as working and paying tax etc. in the UK as a private landlord as he has an income from rent

If he is then working in Spain as a private landlord (and a fiscal resident) with property anywhere providing him with an income which comes to Spain he must be registered for spanish tax and autonomo if self employed and not UK tax & NI.

He will not be working or be resident in UK so no UK tax or NI to pay

The "around 45€ per week" Windtalker states is based on the minimum autonomo payment of approx 230€ per month which will cover the OP and any dependants (wife, children etc.) for state health care will cover any existing conditions



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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