Road side fines from the Guardia

Hi All

Does anyone know anyting about the legality, or otherwise, of being fined at the roadside for minor traffic 'offenses' by the guarda? Its happened to me quite a few times, they flag you down, claim that you were speeding and demand money.

Is this legal? Some poeple have told me that they are not allowed to do this at all.

Others have told me that you can refuse to pay and instead demand a demand in the post, which you can pay early and get a 50% discount on the fine. So you never have to pay them at the roadside.

Last week i was stuck behind a heavy lorry crawling up the road for 10 minutes, going very very slow. Then the guarda step out into the road and claim i was speeding! total nonsense, that was impossible. He had no proof, no radar gun, nothing. HE demanded 50e or would take my car away! I just paid and went on my way.

Is this all legal? Is there anything we can do aout this? It seems like distortion to me!

Grrrrr.

Have a back search through this site,   it seems that the road side fines from the cops like what happened to you has been stopped many months ago. Worth the look.

Does anyone know anyting about the legality, or otherwise, of being fined at the roadside for minor traffic 'offenses' by the guarda? Its happened to me quite a few times, they flag you down, claim that you were speeding and demand money.

Think you now must have the idea that it seems all is not above board with this, looks like you're being the local cash point for a couple of dodgy cops, 2-3-4 cars a week stopped, couple of hundred euros, small enough perhaps not to bother to report....Nice little earner for some.... or maybe in your area it's still legal for roadside cash fines, might be a good idea if you get stopped again,  or see this happening to take some photos of them or the car and have a chat with your local police station.

Thanks for the replies guys. I had a good trawl through the site and there are LOADS of threads about this kind of thing. BUt I couldnt find any specific info hence the new thread

Kathy do you know what the legislation is called that is relevant here? It would be good to be armed with the facts for next time

Ive been stopped and had all over the place, Grenada province to Malaga Province, seems like they are still at it everywhere. I just want to get empowered for next time is all. Photos wopuld be a good idea. Someone told me to call the International POlice next time and they will come and arrest the Guarda! That would be sweet justice and a great little video!!

I would love to know what the relevant legislation is and perhaps even have a copy of it in my car ready.

For now though I think I will just demand that they send me a ticket through the post "so that i can pay it quickly and get a discount" Hopefully that will stop them. Or I could call their bluff and refuse or say I have no money, surely if what they are doing isnt legal they wouldnt be able to impound my car as they threaten to do. Bandito bastardo's!!

If anyone has any ssolid info to go on that would be fabulous

thanks all

I really sympathise with you guys who keep getting stopped (and who appear generally to be the ones who do not ‘like the police' but I am sure that is just a coincidence).

In 26 years in Spain (plus before that several driving holidays) driving cars, 600cc and 125cc motorcycles and riding my racing bike, I have been stopped once, about 20 years ago,  for allegedly speeding in La Linea.   When I queried it, the GC officer called his colleague on a crackly radio, who apparent had clocked me with a radar gun.   As the radio was so bad, the officer called the officer with the gun.  When that officer came, he apologized  and said it was not me but another white Toyota  (also with a Gib plate who had passed me going like a bat out of hell).  They both apologised for stopping me incorrectly, saluted and I went on my way.

My only other brush with the law related to a parking fine issued by a Policia Local officer. I contacted the town hall and explained the situation and the fine was refunded.

Maybe I am just 'lucky'  or maybe I drive carefully, having studied Spanish traffic law,  and comply with the actual law, not depending on just guessing what it might be.

Thus Barry I cannot be sure, having not had the experience,  what the law about paying at the roadside is for sure, but I undersand that if one is resident then you get a ticket to pay later, but if not you must pay at the roadside or have your vehicle towed, to ensure you pay.  If you do pay you must be issued with an official receipt, to avoid the police collecting 'pocket money'.

My husband is in Granada province at the moment and has avoided going down to the coast as the Guardia are out in droves, constantly stopping drivers on a key slip road. At least it means he's spent less money (although it's obviously bad for the local businesses where he would have spent it and it does leave a sour taste in the mouth that you have no freedom of movement).

Unlike in the UK, the police in Spain don't seem to need any reason to stop you; they just hope they can get you on a technicality. There was a news thread last year suggesting the Guardia Civil had received orders to bring in as much money as they could by fining as many people as possible. It's a disgrace. As I said some time ago, a friend's son died in suspicious circumstances and the police didn't even investigate. It seems clear to me that revenue generation is far more of a priority in Spain than trying to bring criminals to justice.

As I said, "I really sympathise with you guys who keep getting stopped (and who appear generally to be the ones who do not ‘like the police' but I am sure that is just a coincidence)"

I see no problem with people who are breaking the law being made to pay for the infringements.  They are after all volunteers; don’t break the law no fines.   Laws are enacted, to inflict penalties on law breakers, to ensure laws are complied with, e.g.  enforcing traffic laws, makes the roads safer for law abiding users.  

I am also not concerned that revenue is being raised by,  hopefully,  the police being more efficient in detecting such law breakers. 

It is a fact serious crimes are often detected by police who stop people for relatively minor offences.   Example.  There have been a number incidents worldwide where the investigation of illegally parked cars  (some might say police wasting their time with parking instead of investigating more serious crimes)  have led to the discovery of car bombs, terrorist plots etc.

That the police enforce some  laws,  e.g. motoring offences, does not mean enforcement of other laws, e.g. crime, is lessened or ignored.  Generally police officers are specialists in certain areas of law enforcement.  Beat officers don’t usually investigate murders, detectives don’t regulate traffic  etc.    

How do you feel about them breaking the rules John? Stopping people for speeding when they were not for example?

What about when they only stop foreigners because the Spanish dont have to pay on the spot? Does that set off any alarm bells for you?

How about if the whole idea of fining people at the roadside, (threateneing to take their cars from them if they arent carrying enough cash, even with their families on board) Is actually illegal as I have heard from several people now, would that set off any alarm bells for you?

How about the insignia on their cars? Have alook next time and you will see the Crown (they are collecting monies for the King, nothing new under the sun eh? that has been going on for thousands of years) and you will also see the fascist emblem of the bunch of reeds bound together with an axe at the top. They openly dispaly fascist emblems while demanding cash at gunpoint from innocent people. does that set off any alarm bells for you?

If not, would there be anything at all that might concern you that the police might do should they become corrupt? what would set off your alarm bells that something isnt quite right with this system? Is there anything?

There has been countless epic battles throughout history where the people fight against exploitation and unfairness by the Kings men agaisnt them and their god given rights. The Magna Carta come to mind.

Eggcup I totaly sympathise with you and your husband. I think if you/ we were to study and learn our natural and God given rights we would see that they absolutely cannot do this. Our right to travel on the lands unmolested by the Kings men is guaranteed in the Magna Carta for example. NOt that that document will protect you against the Guarda but heopefully you can see my point.

they are collecting monies for the King,

Perhaps the kings Daughter can try this one as well next time she appears in court.

She gets her cut dont worry about that. The royals all get very large 'pay' packets courtesy of the people.

Its called the Divine Right Of Kings

Its used to be much more overt, like give us half of your harvest or we burn your house down. Now days they have to be a bit more covert. Dont want to upset the herd.

Barry,   Stopping people for speeding when they were not for example?

See my post below of my experience of just that 

Come come now Barry, very amusing or paranoid,  but saying things which are not true does not make them true. 

We all like to claim we were not committing the offence and of course on balance there must cases of injustice.    I can only really  speak with authority about UK but I believe the same applies in Spain.   When people , are reported for an offence or arrested they normally deny culpability, however, the vast majority later plead guilty.

The law in Spain is designed to ensure that people who are not resident (or do not a Bail Bond supplied by their  insurance company to  guarantee payment)  pay their  fines.  So if they are not resident they must pay on the spot, or get their vehicle impounded until they have paid .  That is not on a whim of the police but the law.  If one is resident, nationality, being Spanish or otherwise, has nothimg to do with it,  they will get a notice  of the fine through the post.

The insignia idea: The legal system in UK has the crown insignia but as we all know the Queen has no authority, just like the King of Spain.

 Magna Carta:  Spain, unlike the UK,  has a written constitution which sets outs and guarantees our Rights.

Barry,   Stopping people for speeding when they were not for example?

See my post below of my experience of just that 

I would like to post sme links John but i amnot allowed to as im new here.

ONe would have been to a news item about Prince Hcarles having veto powers over all UK Acts and statutes.

Anyone who thinks that the Royalty would just give over there powers to the peasants (as it would seem they actaully did about 100 or so years agao) Is very naive

And just for the record, you ignored most of my questions. I guess they were quite difficult!

All teh bet to you anyway John. I guess we are from different era's with different world views.

Are you 100% sure that the law allows for roadside fines? that was the reason for this post in the firt place as many people have told me that this is now illegal. Therefore (if that is true) we have some/ lots of rogue police around who are exploiting the peasants again.

I have not seen anything which has changed police procedure which requires them to insist on immediate payment if the offender is not resident.

Any person so find will get an official receipt so to the police officer cannot just keep it.

One would have been (to) a news item about Prince (Hcarles) Charles having veto powers over all UK Acts and statutes. Sorry but absolute nonsense springs to mind.

Barry:  And just for the record, you ignored most of my questions.    

I did not think I missed any question, which required an answer..

/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9801835/Queen-and-Prince-Charles-using-power-of-veto-over-new-laws-Whitehall-documents-reveal.html

Im not allowed to post links so i had to post it like that. To read it you have to put telegraph.co.uk in front of that address. Or yu can just search for 'Prince charles veto powers" and look for the telegraph piece.

Barry, thanks,  I had not read that, and I have no idea what in reality it means,  that but as I live in Spain and this is EOS, I am not that interested either.

Correction from below:  Any person so find  fined will get an official receipt so to the police officer cannot just keep it.

For the first time ever, I think, I have seen recently on several occasion Policia Nacional stopping vehicles within the city limits and on inter-city roads to give traffic fines.... normally work of the Guardia Civil or Policia Local.... it seems everyone is on call to give fines....

In major towns the National Police are the ‘real police.’  Outside major towns, and in small towns the Guardia Civil are the ‘real police’.

The Policia Local, are employed by the municipality and are in effect the body which enforces local laws.  Whilst they have power to arrest for crime, they cannot process the prisoner, and must take them to the ’real police’ for the area concerned i.e. Guardia Civil or National Police.

The National Police can of course enforce all laws in the towns which they police, so that includes speeding, parking etc.

Guardia Civil - Civil Guard - responsible for general rural policing, firearms and explosives control; traffic policing on interurban roads; protection of communication routes, coasts, frontiers, ports, and airports; enforcement of environmental and conservation laws, including those governing hunting and fishing; and interurban transport of prisoners.^[16]

Cuerpo Nacional de Policia - National Police Corp in communities with population of more than 20,000.^[17]

I will ask the National Police when I am at work (at the police station) on Wednesday,  to see if there has been any change in procedures.

I am sure you know Ian, but many don’t,  that the police do not paid on ‘results.’    In fact by reporting offenders it causes more work for an officer,  and may result in him/her having to go to court on their scheduled day off.