Asset reporting

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25 Apr 2013 09:52 by rolley Star rating in Torrevieja . 40 posts Send private message

Just got a copy of my assets form back from the lady who looks after our tax forms. On the front page the amount she put was much higher than we have, she said that it was correct and joint accounts although added up in full on front page where calculated on the account page @ 50% .
Any one know if this is correct?


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25 Apr 2013 10:45 by Kathyslad Star rating. 329 posts Send private message

You're supposed to report the full amount and show the percentage. So our joint account shows the full balance against each person on the detailed account page, and the percentage as 50/50. The summary shows the same I.e the full balance against each person.

With regard to the balances, if you mean individual accounts, then without wishing to be patronising, did you give her the sterling or euro amount, and if the euro, did you make it clear you had already converted it. Try dividing the amount by 1.2253 to see if the amount is what you reported. If you mean the totals, then It will include the full balance for each person in the total, so if you have a joint account with €1000 it will show the total for each person as a €1000. Ie a total of €2000.



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25 Apr 2013 10:53 by rolley Star rating in Torrevieja . 40 posts Send private message

Account in my name show amount say 1000 shows 100%
Account in wife's name show amount say 1000 shows 100%
Account in both names show amount say 2000 shows 50/50%
Front page shows total assets for each of us as 3000
That is what is confusing me

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25 Apr 2013 11:24 by Kathyslad Star rating. 329 posts Send private message

If the balance of the joint account is €2000, then that's correct, it would €3000 each, because it reports the whole balance for each person ( not your share). Sounds right to me.



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25 Apr 2013 11:30 by rolley Star rating in Torrevieja . 40 posts Send private message

Thank you I just thought the total would the amount for each individual after the 50/50 cut.

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25 Apr 2013 11:51 by baz1946 Star rating. 2190 posts Send private message

Account in my name show amount say 1000 shows 100%
Account in wife's name show amount say 1000 shows 100%
Account in both names show amount say 2000 shows 50/50%
Front page shows total assets for each of us as 3000
That is what is confusing me

How on earth does Spain work this out this way?

You have your account with 1000€ in it

You have wife's account with 1000€ in it

You both have a joint account with 2000€ in it split 50/50%....1000€ each

Then surely you only have 2000€ each for tax purpose...Even if you add the sums up Spains way it comes to, joint 2000€ plus 1000€  (yours)  plus 1000€  (wife)   = 4000€.

Front page shows total assets for each of us as 3000€...Your words. So now your total combined assets for both of you are twice 3000€ = 6000€.

My accounts lady has just looked at these figures and obviously she don't do Spain accounting but on the face of it and by your post Spain gets tax back on 6000€, which you both don't have......Confusing to us..... but not to Spain.





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25 Apr 2013 12:10 by Kathyslad Star rating. 329 posts Send private message

These returns are nothing to do with tax payments or tax due.ŵ



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25 Apr 2013 12:11 by rolley Star rating in Torrevieja . 40 posts Send private message

Not yet.

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25 Apr 2013 12:29 by baz1946 Star rating. 2190 posts Send private message

These returns are nothing to do with tax payments or tax due.ŵ

 

Okay, so they are just for asset reporting then..Is that correct? Next bit of the puzzle, you now got these assets of  3000€ each X 2 = 6000€....Is that correct? so now what do you get taxed on? as you cant tell the tax man i don't have to much in the way of assets because you / someone has already declared that you do have.

If someone, tax for instance, looks at these assets then their could be...By mistake on Spains part perhaps...a serious overpayment of tax., which cant be corrected very easy......Dont know...to confusing.

Not criticizing anyone over, or about any of this, but in no way can we here make these figures add up or look sensible.....NOT that we have to mind.

As my accounting lady has just said, and i quote...."With a strange way of accounting is it any wonder Spain is in a mess financially". 

 





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25 Apr 2013 12:54 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

 

Baz
            Okay, so they are just for asset reporting then..Is that correct? Next bit of the puzzle, you now got these assets of  3000€ each X 2 = 6000€....Is that correct? so now what do you get taxed on?
 
Sory Baz,   That question is not relevant.
 
Asset Declaration, at present, has nothing to do with what tax one pays.
 
Next month, when we (tax residents in Spain) make our tax returns for the year 2012, we must declare, and pay tax on our INCOME,( not necessarily on our assets).
 
Of course, if our 'family home' is worth more than 300,000 euros and or our total assets worldwide are in excess of 700,000 euros then we will also need to pay Patrimonio Tax (Wealth Tax) starting at 0.2%
 

 

To clarify:   My wife is tax resident in Spain.  She owns a house and land in the Philippines.  She has declared those as assets.  She does not get any income from them, and they are worth less than 700,000 euros,  so no income tax  nor partimonio tax  to pay.

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 25/04/2013.



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25 Apr 2013 12:54 by rolley Star rating in Torrevieja . 40 posts Send private message

Totally agree but € 10,000 fine for not filling one in, is a lot of fine!

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25 Apr 2013 13:38 by baz1946 Star rating. 2190 posts Send private message

Thanks John.   Now i see whats going on, thats the problem when you dont have so many of the facts with you.

Thanks.





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25 Apr 2013 19:45 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4509 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

 "You have your account with 1000€ in it

You have wife's account with 1000€ in it

You both have a joint account with 2000€ in it split 50/50%....1000€ each

Then surely you only have 2000€ each for tax purpose..."

Yes, but as already pointed out, you (currently) only pay tax on any income arising from that €2,000 (interest earned), not on the underlying asset that you are reporting. The reasoning is, I think, as joint owners of the account (presumably as either to sign) each of you have access to the full balance, i.e. you have a "right" to the full €2,000, as does your wife. Nevertheless, and despite the fact that on each individual asset you declare it includes your share (in this case 50%), it does raise the question, could Hacienda decide to tax each of you on the same asset? Nothing would surprise me, and I understand your concern.

"Totally agree but € 10,000 fine for not filling one in, is a lot of fine!"

Who said anything about not filling one in?



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25 Apr 2013 21:14 by baz1946 Star rating. 2190 posts Send private message

Call me very cynical...or....more like very un-trustworhty of anything when it comes to telling what you have, or paying money out via any government body, I do know the legalities of withholding important  information concerning many things, but why is all this information being collected as to a persons assets if it has little use....Yet.

Wonder if Cyprus asked these same questions a few years back and not to many people thought much of it and answered, only to find out later that if they had enough assets they had to help the busted economy out,  years down the line.





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26 Apr 2013 08:15 by Kathyslad Star rating. 329 posts Send private message

Actually it has quite a lot of use in its current form. It provides them with full information for inheritance and capital gains tax. Plus, it allows them to check whether people have been properly declaring income and wealth tax ( both now and in the future ). This assumes of course that the declarations are correct.



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26 Apr 2013 08:52 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

Kathyslad
                          ........................ it allows them to check whether people have been properly declaring income and wealth tax  ( IN THE PAST,  now and in the future ). It provides them with full information for inheritance and capital gains tax.
 
It would seem to make sense that is knows they are ‘close to death’ that they sell up in Spain and move to a more ‘inheritance tax friendly’ place before the ‘last day’. 
 
Some may not be aware that if one is Tax Resident in Spain, over 65 and has lived in a property for at least three years, there is no capital gains tax to pay.   (unless they have changed the law in ther past 10 years, without me noticing)





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26 Apr 2013 10:57 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4509 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

 I've put that last post through both Bing and Google translate but still can't work out what any of it means. Not just trying to be a grammar pedant; I think some on here might actually want to know what you mean. 



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"Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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26 Apr 2013 11:02 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

Repeated post:-

 

It would seem to make sense that if one knows they are ‘close to death’ that they sell up in Spain and move to a more ‘inheritance tax friendly’ place before the ‘last day’. 

 

Some may not be aware that if one is Tax Resident in Spain, over 65 and has lived in a property for at least three years, there is no capital gains tax to pay.   (unless they have changed the law in the past 10 years, without me noticing)

 

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 26/04/2013.



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26 Apr 2013 11:34 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4509 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

 OK, another comma might make the grammar acceptable, but I still don't know what point you're trying to make. Are you saying the 720 is reason to leave Spain before you croak - or that the 720 was introduced to stop people leaving Spain before they croak? I just don't follow you. Also your comment about CGT. I don't understand the connection to the 720 in this statement. I'm clearly missing something.

 



_______________________

 

"Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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26 Apr 2013 11:52 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

I am surprised that you do not see what I mean.
 
 
But.  
                  It is,  that if one is Tax Resident in Spain (especially now, as Kathyslad says, because of the 720,  the Government now knows of all one's worldwide assets) it would seem to make sense to leave Spain, so that you do not die here (cease being tax resident)  thus your assets which you leave to your inheritors, will not be liable to Spanish Succession Tax.
 
I implied ‘shortly before one dies’ as I cannot see the point of leaving Spain to live somewhere else,  which for me would be less pleasant, until ‘the time comes.’
 
I also pointed out,  that one may be able to sell up, without incurring CGT.





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