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JCHALL. NO she was not sacked she was stabbed in the back by some tory MPs who were after her job. Something that most of them bitterly regretted at a later stage. Thats when the tory party started to go downhill.
KROPOTKIN. You can quote what percentage you like but at the end of the day she was put into power by the people of the UK 3 times on the trot, i repeat 3 times on the trot. END OF ARGUMENT.
ALSO KROPOTKIN. Quote. "I wonder if she has met the souls of those boys she sent to their deaths in 1982 for the sake of a piece of rock" Well i am glad Sir Winston Churchill did not think the same as you when Hitler was pushing his way through Poland France etc towards us in 1939. The Falkland islanders were under british rule and to a man and woman, wanted to stay under british rule. So what would you say to them. TOUGH, we are not going to lose 1 soldier just for YOU and that PIECE OF ROCK. It had NOTHING at all to do with Maggie Thatcher, whoever was prime minister at that time would have done exactly the same, surely you can see that?
This message was last edited by HAWKINGS111 on 13/04/2013.
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 Now Retired and have our money back in FULL via our bank guarantee. Bob and Pauline.
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I was a Tory councillor at the time of her coming and I was immensly proud to belong to her party.
I seem to recall that we used to have a ship building industry then. They were riveted ships. I think there were 5 men in each team. Then along came welded ships and the riveting team of 5 was replaced by a single welder. Luckily for the riveting teams the Unions insisted that welders must also be in a team of 5. Unluckily for the industry, the cost of the welded ships was unsustainable because of the unused and extra manpower, thus the industry died. Ship building moved overseas. The unions blamed anyone and everyone but themselves. I seem to remember something similar happening on the railways too, when an unused fireman and a rear coach brakeman had to be employed on new diesel trains, as well as the driver. Another disaster in the making.
I am definitely not anti Union. I honestly believe that they are a vital ingredient for a stable society. I also believe that there are some employers that are just as narrow minded, short sighted, beligerent, uncompromising and financially incompetant as some of the old Unions.
Neither did I support everything Maggie stood for, especially in later years. Nevertheless I still admired her and wish to hell we had some politicians with her guts and determination today.
Was I adversly affected by her reign, actually yes. I was heavily involved in the local tourist industry, which collapsed because she put more money into the pockets of most and they elected to holiday abroad in guaranteed sunshine, because they could now afford it. Our industry and my business was in tatters and I sought work in Europe, where I have been ever since.
I didn't blame Maggie for my demise, change and progress was inevitable and still is. Alas not always for the best for everyone.
If those misguided, selfish, ill educated trouble makers stayed in the comfortable homes provided by the state and seethed in silence we would not have to spend 10 million pounds on security for the funeral of Britain's first female Prime Minister.
Leo Leon (Holland)
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HAWKINGS111. You should study history rather than just read the headlines! To compare WW2 with the Malvinas skirmish is pretty dumb, but it would be pointless for you and me to debate this issue for obvious reasons.
K.
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wow well this certainly caused mixed feelings, love or hate and there are reasons for both as there are for many ex pm's still alive, but to party over her death I feel is disrespectful to her family, who will be affectd by the words of others, if you hate her then fine but why make her family suffer more, she can no longer hear what you say or see what you do, but the rest of the world can, but hey thats just my feelings and those that want to party don't care about my feelings, or it seems her familys. I too have reasons to dislike her policies and lots of the things she put her name to, but that does not mean I want to dance in the street at her death. and depending on how each person views history then you can make it prove what you want, and that will never change. I do not feel a loss as I did not know her I don't feel the need to celebrate as she did what she thought was right, as have lots before her and lots after her. wonder if there will be more 'street parties' to come in the future..............
This message was last edited by wencra on 13/04/2013.
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Like Bobaol, I too remember being laid off and being depressed not only about my own situation but that of the whole country, bankrupt; looked down upon by most Western countries as a basket case; filthy with the rubbish lying a yard high in the streets and rats crawling around like a third world country. Then Maggie grabbed everything by the nadgers and sorted it all out – I say to my kids that even the weather got better under Maggie and we had a safer world with the Maggie / Ronnie / Gorby troika. My kids seem to be bamboozled by the lunatic leftists at the BBC to believe all the exact opposites of the truth and like most of these ghoulish protestors (how can you protest about someone dying? It just makes me laugh how thick these unintelligent; probably unemployed cretins are) they are too young to have lived under her or more importantly the weak governments / strong arm unions run like gangster mobs with flying pickets hell bent on grinding down the working classes in their quest for more power for themselves – yes, that sounds familiar with today’s EU Barons.
They are also too young to remember having our teachers tell us what to do if we were to suffer a nuclear attack and the genuine fear of war. Of course Mrs.T didn’t bring down the wall but the new peace between the East and West that led to it was created by the genuine respect and then friendship between the two super powers fostered by the new highly respected Prime Minister of what a few years before was a laughing stock little bankrupt nation. I see the bunch of layabouts and “Political Activists” (So which benefit office do they pick their money up from while travelling around?) and just think as one of the major economic magazine’s lead article said just a couple of weeks ago, “The UK needs another Maggie Thatcher”.
Regarding the Falklands she had no choice and thank God, against all odds pulled it off. As a country we were legally obliged to defend the Falklands and to be absolutely honest no-one else could have pulled it off as she used every ruse to win what seemed like an un-winnable war. Her relationship with the US was unique and obviously without that ability to push the US a lot further than they probably wanted to go we could never have liberated the people of the Falklands from a regime which was known to be a dictatorship with a horrendous record on human rights which should be studied by modern history and sociology students.
Remember, had it not been for the high level of training our forces had then the initial illegal act of aggression by Argentina had the intention of murdering the majority of our small defence force while they slept before declaring war.
I will leave any of you denial monkey’s with one thought, were you a 19 year old captive soldier, who would you rather be held captive by, Col. H. Jones or General Galtieri?
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Galtieri wasn't so much interested in recovering the islands but using the the Falklands as a political act to gain support in Argentina as there had been unrest and campaigns against the dictatorship in the country before the invasion. Galtieri figured if he recovered the islands he would be popular once again. However the fact that Britain recovered the islands and flawed his plans also saved an imminent attack on Chile by Argentina. If they had one the Falklands, Galtieri's next stage in the plan was to invade Chile and control the Pacific Coast. He is famed as saying " let them take note as they will be next" "Soon we will be pissing champagne into the Pacific!"
I hardly think any country could stand back and let a regime like this take over part of your country and your citizens, no matter how few were living on the islands. The falklands was much more complex than just "recovering a few rocks".
She showed guts and did what she had to do, so and I think those who lost their lives in the war, lost their lives fighting for their country so I don't think it is right to disrespect their effort and sacrifice as a waste of time... "saving a rock" .
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Ian : EOS TEAM MEMBER
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I watched "the Big Question" on BBC2 today and they debated Margaret Thatcher, on the one side, ex-miners who hated her, detested what she did to their communities and were some of the people "dancing on her grave" and the other side, defending some of what she did, not all, but condemning what the protestors are doing.
What came across to me was that the ex-miners who yes lost their jobs, were also people from small close knit communities who would have continued going the mines even if not a penny could have been made in profit from them. In other words they worked hard, came out with some dreadful diseases but instead of looking to the future and getting out and getting retrained in another type of job and moving to another town which was easier under Thatcher than if you tried to do it today when there are NO jobs, then they could have moved forward with their lives and their communities, instead they buried themselves in the past and sat and licked their wounds for the next 50 yrs. People that live in the past are condemned to die in the past along with all the baggage that goes with it, the hatred, resentment, and needing someone to blame for progress moving their community on.
Whatever people think of Thatcher, Harold Wilson closed (I heard this morning) over 100 mines before she came to power, she just continued with closing non-profitable industries, the same with steel, car industries and shipbuilding. Something becomes unprofitable and whoever is in power would have had to take the painful decisions. To now blame it on Thatcher is pure "needing someone to blame" culture and there is a lot of that going around at the moment.
From my own point of view, she encouraged entrepreneurism and encouraged people to take hold of their own destiny, develop some self promotion of one's own talents and made people take responsibility for their own future which was a good thing for many people including me and my family. The Labour since have done just the opposite and Cameron is too wishy washy to do much except cut benefits and that is not in itself a cure for what is wrong with the UK. The UK is not "hungry" enough for success which is self evident in the rest of the world which does not have such a generous welfare system. China, India and the rest of the upcoming power house economies are now going through their own industrial revolutions and are leaving countries like ours behind in their wake. They have the fight to become successful countries whereas our people have lost their way.
I wish Maggie was here now, she would put some fire into the bellies of these soft politicians and make them more accountable and I sorely missed her many talents when she was ousted from power. Nothing I see now or in the future leads me to suppose that we will ever get back to that time of that upwardly mobile environment. Sad. I will say a little prayer for her anyway on the day of her funeral.
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To Maxmonkey
I think most of the hate brigade could not read a history book let alone understand it
So you are basically right but best of luck getting your point understood
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The Falklands.
(I am a sceptical kind of bloke).
As I remember some scrap metal dealers landed on another nearby uninhabited island (South Georgia) and raised the Argentine flag.
At the time Maggie and the Tories were falling in the opinion polls and were very likely to lose the next election.
I suspect that had the UK Government made it completely clear that if the Argentine put a foot on the Falkland’s we would react as we did, then President Galtieri would not have invaded.
I suspect (no proof at all) that the invasion was engineered (or at least ‘encouraged’) by maybe a suggestion that UK would do nothing if Galtieri, invaded.
That he did, resulted in a 'very fortunate' victory for the Tories !!!
This message was last edited by johnzx on 14/04/2013.
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To johnzx
We have a couple of things in common I too am a major sceptic and live in Spain.
Your idea is sort of plausible but a bit stretched I believe a lot of major events are engineered for the benefit of various government or business parties but this is a bit ott. Wheres the profit, who needs the faulklands, a cold wet rock on the other side of the world.
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Bazil
Wheres the profit
She improved her popularity in the Polls and won the ellection, which she almost certainly was going to lose !
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EOS _IAN. - Exactly.
It's good to read such a lot of well-expressed facts on the Eye on Spain blogs. My father and an uncle were actually union leaders in other industries and to be honest I think even they were exasperated by the attitude of some of the workers blinded to creating a future for themselves and some of the union leaders dedication to both building their own empire while tearing down the British economy as well as any orchestrated attack by a foreign power. My father was not that radical and as he spoke so well about the Polish pilots he was with in the RAF during the war he spoke equally well of his friend Jack Jones who was, I believe, an honourable and focused man. Unfortunately within a short time of his tenure of the unions they became a different beast.
The mines; car and shipping industries are obvious examples and Mrs. Thatcher was too late to save them. Anyone with an IQ above single figures should know this but South America is a long way away and most people know nothing of the politics and ambitions which you have synopsised very clearly. It is in the history books but as said in this blog, the Antis, (ooh, yes let's march and loot and have some fun, who was she again?) are probably too blatantly ignorant of any argument to listen even if they weren't too thick to read history! They are the sound bite/iPhone generation. Strange how, as the AK 49 is the currency of the "downtrodden" of third world trouble spots the iPhone is the demanded tool of the, "52" TV and 20 Benson and Hedges a day on the dole brigade".
There is a huge difference I feel, between these people who rant and rave against a dead person and the vast majority of society - one moron on TV today (paid by the BBC of course) stated to celebrate was great because Thatcher was a blood sucking vampire and it is difficult to kill such a creature and he can now rejoice that she can't control the country anymore. What sort of idiot at the BBC gives air time to morons of such stupidity who don't even know that Mrs.Thatcher has not controlled the country since before the iPhone generation were even born? When the billionaire war criminal Blaire dies I shall simply look back and thank god for democracy that he never went on and on for generations (Ewan Blair next?) like Pakistan / India / North Korea etc. but that will be it. A short thought for his family in their loss and nothing more.
That, I feel is the difference between "us and them" and luckily for them, "we" have the work ethic and decency to still get up in the morning and work hard so that "They" can carry on trying to destroy us.
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I am afraid "SHE WOULD ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE LOST THE NEXT ELECTION", is purely conjecture and guess work. No sane person would let a war start when they could have stopped it regardless of their position in the polls. I think that one was a bit OTT.
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Now Retired and have our money back in FULL via our bank guarantee. Bob and Pauline.
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Hawkings:-
I am afraid "SHE WOULD ALMOST CERTAINLY HAVE LOST THE NEXT ELECTION", is purely conjecture and guess work.
A guess, conjecture ? Well I am not exactly alone in my considered judgement.
QUOTE:_(Wikipedia)
Thatcher's first four years as prime minister had not been an easy time.
Unemployment had rocketed in the first three years of her term as she battled to control inflation that had ravaged Britain for most of the 1970s.
By the start of 1982, unemployment had passed the 3,000,000 mark - for the first time since before the Second World War - and the economy had been in recession for nearly two years.
However, British victory in the Falklands War later that year sparked a dramatic rise in Tory popularity, and as Mrs Thatcher's newfound popularity continued in 1983 the Tories were most people's firm favourites to win the election.
PS My personal opinion is that Maggie was probably one of the best PMs UK has ever had. This message was last edited by johnzx on 14/04/2013.
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"No sane person would let a war start when they could have stopped it regardless of their position in the polls."
What???? I don't agree with johnzx about the Falklands but convinced the Iraq war was Blair/Bush vanity project and could and should have been stopped.
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Poppyseed
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The Falklands is not a piece of rock. It is a group of islands about the size of Wales. There is a lot of grass (how do you think they feed the sheep?) There are very few trees and I only ever saw them at Hill Cove and Fox Bay, though not many. It has some wonderful beaches and it can get quite warm over the summer (November to February). There are also people which is the most important thing. Johnzx, your cynical thoughts would mean rather a lot of people involved in the conspiracy. The Americans, for a start. And the outcome was by no means a given. The capability of their forces, and don't believe the tripe about untrained conscripts as the certainly had very well trained Marines and Special Forces, was well known. The extremely powerful airforce and the presence of Exocet missiles was also known. To travel thousands of miles by sea and then take the islands (which Argentina had had ample time to reinforce and supply) was by no means certain and it ended up a very close thing. Imagine if the operation had failed? They certainly had a very powerful and well equipped navy which, thankfully, they kept in harbour after losing the Belgrano. The operation was a risk, the supply and logistics chain was huge and none of the British forces who went had ever seen combat before apart from urban patrols. Far too risky to chance everything on a political whim and I (my personal opinion) think Labour was unelectable with Foot in charge anyway.
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Bob
It could equally be argued that President Galtieri also embarked on a pointless adventure which he was unlike to achieve and only did so to glean support.
As I said, if it had been made clear to him that we would take the action which we did, for him it would have been ‘Far too risky to chance ‘ too, but he did. I just wonder why !.
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Poppyseed. The Iraqi war could and should have been stopped. I think there would be many Iraqi's now who would disagree with you because that Would mean Saddam Hussein would still be in charge along with his insane sons, continuing his killing spree of Iraqi's who opposed him.
When the British and American forces pushed him and his republican guard army out of Kuwait which he invaded, the Kurds, some of his own people stood up and celebrated, thinking the brits and yanks would push him back into baghdad and finish the job {which some 10 years later a big american military man said they should have done}, but they did not, and in retribution for their celebrations Saddam committed genocide by killing 5000 Kurds with chemical weapons.
For all of Iraq's problems at the moment it is still a better place for its people without Saddam Hussein.
Were there weapons of mass destruction, maybe not, did Blair and Bush lie, maybe they did. No one really knows for sure.
Does the end justify the means, I think sometimes YES.
This message was last edited by HAWKINGS111 on 14/04/2013.
This message was last edited by HAWKINGS111 on 14/04/2013.
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Now Retired and have our money back in FULL via our bank guarantee. Bob and Pauline.
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JOHNZX. I think you will find that president Galtieri was warned that there would be repercussions if he did not imediately pull out. He did not, and there were.
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Now Retired and have our money back in FULL via our bank guarantee. Bob and Pauline.
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"Were there weapons of mass destruction, maybe not, did Blair and Bush lie, maybe they did. No one really knows for sure"
I think it has been shown there were no WMD and that they did lie and I think more innocent people have died since this war than died under Sadam Hussein. But the whole premise for war was WMD and not that he was killing his own people. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this but it will be interesting to see what the Chilcott report contains, if it ever gets published that is.
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Poppyseed
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