Dictatorship?

Our builder put lamps on one of our entrance pillars on every property 5 years ago. They have never worked well. Go off at rain and bulbs burn out often and also got damage in the sockets.

One day I heard from our president that all lamps are going to be replaced by another type.  These are the facts acknowledged by the president:

-          - There has not been any AGM/EGM decision. (“It was not on the agenda”)

-          - The committee has approved but no minutes are taken.

-          - There has not been any technical investigation. (“they are rusty”)

-          - The cost will be around € 5 000.

-         -  It is not covered in the budget

I have informed as many owners I can reach by our community forum, and also informed that this is very wrong and against law. Not any other comments than “better use than lose” (referring to Cyprus).

As I understand and interpret the HPA, this is not allowed by law. Am I stupid or is everyone else stupid?

I know I can go to court but it will end in us being completely isolated and it will cost more than the loss due to this incredible dictatorial measure. (€50/owner)

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I have also been told that " The president can decide anything. He signs the checks"!!!!

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Arne,

You state yourself that the lights are faulty so replacing them sounds reasonable. Assuming your community fees are more than 50€ per month and that the community has the money to carry out this work it doesn't sound, on the basis of the information that you have provided, to be major works. He has consulted the committee and they have agreed. President's have executive responsibility for the upkeep of the community including decisions to carry out repairs and it doesn't sound to me as if he has exceeded his powers.

Unlike Dictators Presidents are elected. As it sounds unlikely that you will be able to get the necessary 25% to call an EGM you will have to wait until the AGM at which time, if your neighbours agree that the encumbent is not acting in the interest of the community, you can elect someone else.

 

 

 

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 Oh come on - it has to be a wind up!! 50 euros each to repair lights?  Why would anyone get upset at that?  I am at a loss, unless Arne is a WUM.

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Dosnt seem like a bad deal to me (50 Euro... nowt) and look, just think how good the community will look at night. ?

Some times it takes too long to get anything done with red tape and committes surveys so to me its the best action..

 

think you need to.. er   "lighten up" ....

 

This message was last edited by aliton on 29/03/2013.

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Thanks for your answers. None of you would not be upset if you were charged €50 euros for an douptful measure. There is no indication, that this change will make any difference as there are probably faults in cabeling and so on. Noone actually knows.

But that is not the point. The point is: Can the president use €5 000 without agreement from other owners? Apperently, it is all right. What a fool I am, comming from a democratic country where even the prime minister has to ask the parlament for money. But of course we schould let the "upper class" take care of things, the alweys know best.

 I will suggest for the AGM that we only have one item at the agenda: Election of  president, the rest of the meeting is only a waste of time.

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Dont like whats going on ...... stand for election as president.

Sounds like a bargain price to me new lights for less than a dinner for two.

 

Rossetti

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I can see the point about the president being able to spend money on things without letting the residents know. However, if an EGM had to be called everytime a bill came up there wouldn't be a lot done. Taking your analogy of voting in a democracy, imagine if your local council had to call for a general vote every time a pothole needed filling in. Surely you live in a representative democracy where you vote people in to take decisions for you. Any large capital expenditure should be voted on but you voted in a president and committee to take care of the general maintenance. Bit pointless having them if you all need to agree on the day to day running. Bit like having one huge committee who'd have to be available all the time

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Well Arne you don't seem to be a WUM (I had to look that one up!) but you do seem to be out of step with the rest of the posters on this forum.

A well managed AGM is a great opportunity to discuss options and to provide the President and committee with the priorities of the community. To limit debate to the election of the President would stifly the very democracy you claim to espouse!

In my experience there will be neighbours who want to spend more money to improve the community and others who want to spend less because they haven't got any. A President clearly can't please everybody all of the time. It is a time consuming business, and once elected we often find we have to make decisions we are not professionally qualified to make. We do the best we can - it is after all our community we are working for.

Some neighbours will inevitably disagree with decisions and they have the right to do so. Most Presidents listen to what the neighbours say but do not underestimate the amount of work they do.

If you are willing to take on the responsibilty and your priorities are more closely aligned with the majority than the current President's you will find yourself elected and only then will discover how difficult a job it is to do!

 

This message was last edited by davmunster on 30/03/2013.

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Have to start from the beginningso you understand what I am talkin about:

Every democratic Organisation/Company/State/Community have a board and administratuion that runs the everyday business. The owners/members/parlament set the rules, programs and the economic framework how the board should run things.

This framework in an Owners Community consists of Budget, Renovation and Improvement plans as well as allowens for urgent repairs, maintanance and smaller adjustments.

If the management go outside this framework, it is called Breach of trust or Corruption. at least when done by the Goverment or the Bank Manager.

So my question is: What do we call it when it is performed by a Community President?

 

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 In the case you are describing : maintenance 

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Right Roly 2! "maintenance"

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Glad you are not in our urbanisation Arne !!   I think we might be having a few "conversations"

I am a President, I work for the benefit of our community, without pay ("or back-handers")  if I had to consult on every decision I made nothing would get done to improve our urbanisation.

Budgets are "guidelines" only, along as the community has the funds to carry out these improvements, then why not. ?   That's what presidents are elected for,  to improve the community, and that means making decisions.  I am as all presidents are, effectively "managing directors"  

Let him get on with the job, and if you don't like what he is doing, vote him out at the next AGM, - easy, and democratic.

Thankfully most people appreciate the effort - and hours (and hours !) I put in to improve our community, but then there is always an arnie !!

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Is it not anyone out there, who have reed the law?

A am shocked!  "Budgets are "guidelines" only"

"I am the President and I know what is best. I dont need to ask theese silly owners"

OK I got the point: The president can do anything with our money as soon as the AGM is closed.

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 Am I stupid or is everyone else stupid?

 

This is the question you asked to begin with.  Usually - it is not everyone else.

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Arne - you yourself have pointed out that since the lights were installed five years ago they have never worked well. There may well be other residents who have complained about this, perhaps feel their section is too dark and gloomy at night. So, after five years of something not working, the community is finally putting it right. You are angry not to have been asked, and you complain that you don't know if, after the work, the lights will then be working. My suggestion is - relax and enjoy your life, and IF after the work is done the lights don't work, surely THEN is the time to get upset? (Though only slightly!)

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Arnie.

Calm down and read the post(s)

"I am the President and I know what is best. I dont need to ask theese silly owners"

This isn't what I said, and is not my way or my words.  But, most of our owners (84 apartments) do not reside in Spain, I do, so they have voted me as president in order to be "custodian" of their investment, and where possible, and within the constraints of the bank balance, and with discussion with our administrators, and with discussion with my committee members (when I can get hold of them), I do the job of maintaining and improving our urbanisation, to all the owners satisfaction.

I know the owners are happy because I answer to them at the AGM, and guess what -  I get a lot of compliments at the way things are being run. If the owners become unhappy they will no doubt let me know by voting me out, it's called democracy.

Just as an aside, Two years ago (when I was first elected) we had no money in the bank, the place looked in a sorry state.                  Now it's a desirable place to live, the gardens are beginning look like we were told (by the developers, 9 years ago) full of Mediterranean. plants, a lot of repair work has been implemented and completed, the buildings have been painted (organised by the previous president) all in all it is a real success story, from near bankruptcy 5 years ago to all this and 30,000 euros in the "community savings" account.

None of this could have been done without the owners "consenting"  by investing in me (and my predecessors) as presidents.                instead on coming on here and whinging, give your man a chance and then let him answer for his actions at the AGM, sounds like he is doing a good job to me.

On another point you made about knowing "horizontal law"  yes I do, pretty much backwards, not that I have had to use it, but it does make interesting reading ("reading horizontal law" is a bit sad I know, before anybody tells me !!)

Like I said before, I  am glad you don't live on our urbanisation.  People like you really get up my nose.

That just about covers it !!!

 

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This message was last edited by CostaBlade on 31/03/2013.

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I am actually discussing the role and authorization of the President. I am dissapointed that I have not got any aspects on if the law and common democratic rules.

Everyone have told me to sit back and not disturb a president for different resons:

- He is not payed

- It is not possible to follow the law

- He knows what is best for the community.

- Everything can be corrected at the next AGM

I give up, drink my sangria, dont bother an will be as wise as everybody else.

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