Return of deposits from Aifos in 2003

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24 Jan 2012 12:00 AM by mega Star rating. 73 posts Send private message

This is a copy of an email I have just sent to European MP Diana Wallace. To the other Aifos victims I would be interested in your comments after you have read the letter below. How can it be right that it looks like we may receive 50% of our deposits back 17 years after Aifos received them?

Mega.

Dear Mrs Wallace,
 
I have just received the information below which appears to be saying that the deposit I gave in 2003 maybe paid back to me (50%) in the year 2020. How can this happen or be allowed to happen between two European countries? I would be interested in your comments and opinion where myself and thousands of others can go next. My court judgement was pre-administration and this is just one of the developers who have misled and fleeced many thousands of millions of their savings, the judgment for me was 95.000 euros plus interest July 2009. To date, I have not recevied one cent.
 
First we were told that Aifos´s goal is to go voluntary out of the administration. The economist told us that Aifos had presented several demands against the banks and they have received yet three that Aifos has won. The demands were presented because several years ago when Aifos visited the banks asking for more credits and a schedule of time to avoid the administration, the banks refused the credits and they blocked Aifos´s accounts taking some money without their consents. Consequently Aifos had to present the administration and Aifos lawyers presented some demands against those banks. Recently Aifos has received three judgements and the three have been won, so Aifos will recover some money from the banks and the more important thing: extra money to cover the legal damages. Obviously the judgements have been won in the first hearing but I assume the banks will appeal the judgements.
The economist put the blame on the banks however the lawyer replied him that Aifos had taken the money from a lot of people and many buildings  were unfinished, so they had responsibility, not only the banks.
-The economist gave us the proposal to reach this objective. Aifos want to go out of the administration to avoid the liquidation and their intention is to pay 100% of the privileged credits (the banks are included), 50% of the ordinary credits as well as 50% of the subordinate credits. The schedule of payments they gave us is terrible as Aifos will pay the credits in 8 years time. We were told that during the first three years the company will pay nothing. The four year they will pay 5 to 10% of the credits, next year 20% and continuing until have paid 50%.
-The lawyers were quite furious and the economist replied that their intention was not to lie. It is impossible to guarantee Aifos will pay 10, 20 or 30% the first year when they need some time to get money in cash. Moreover they told us that their intention is to get and pay the rest, this means that it is possible Aifos will recover 50% outstanding balance and then the ordinary and subordinate credits will be 100% paid.
 
-On the other hand, the economist told us that Aifos is in negotiations with the banks involved to get their consents to that schedule of payments. It seems that previously the banks had refused to meet Aifos and currently the banks are dealing.
 
-Finally they replied some questions of the lawyers:
*The clients that have already paid and Aifos has the properties unfinished, can cancel their credits and will get their money refunded. Also they are able to make swaps to get some flats already finished, however is the judge ruling aifos administration has to approve the deal, so it is not automatic.
*Also we were informed that Aifos is going to finish the buildings as soon as possible to complete the properties.
*The main question was: what is happening if the creditors are not happy with the proposal? Aifos will present the proposal to be voted and if 50% creditors vote in their favour, the proposal will be approved, otherwise the proposal will fail. In that case, the economist told us that Aifos would need to liquidate the company. 
We were told that Aifos will be negotiating with the banks until the summer approximately. In my opinion the banks will approve the proposal because they want money not properties, and they will recover 100% of the money. 
I was not satisfied with the meeting. Aifos has failed with the business and now they blame the banks, when the company has won a lot of money. Obviously the clients are interested in getting their money back, the problem is you will need to wait for a long time before getting some result.
 
I await your reply with much anticipation.
 





 





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24 Jan 2012 2:29 PM by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 197 posts Send private message

Hi Mega, 

      Speaking as an AIFOS creditor, could you tell me where you have obtained all this information ?

      Has your Lawyer informed you of this or has there been an AIFOS Creditors meeting ?

      Cheers, look forward to your reply

  

 





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24 Jan 2012 3:23 PM by mega Star rating. 73 posts Send private message

Both, last friday  was the first aifos creditors meeting what you see in my email to mrs wallis was relayed to a friend by his solicitor who was there.My solicitor sent me a load of figures showing how they(aifos) propose to return thier debts over the next 8 years,if they can work thier way out of addminisration.

Regards Mega





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24 Jan 2012 5:40 PM by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 197 posts Send private message

Hi Mega,

Thanks for the up-date.

Hopefully my Spanish Lawyer will be forwarding all the info from this Creditors meeting ASAP.

Well at  least something has happened, I thought we were permanently stuck on the "Back Burner".

Cheers





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25 Jan 2012 12:03 PM by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 197 posts Send private message

                                                 TO ALL AIFOS CREDITORS.

Could I ask that if anyone attended the Meeting last Friday (20/01) or has been informed by their respective Lawyers, as to the out come of the Creditors Meeting, that they pass on any relevant information.

Thank you.





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25 Jan 2012 4:44 PM by coombsey Star rating. 14 posts Send private message

Hi everyone, I've just had a reply from my Spanish Lawyer after querying the original post with them.  They have loosely confirmed the points in the original post from mega but said that the comments made in the meeting were made 'off record' and are waiting for a letter confirming the points from Aifos before relaying it to the creditors.  If I hear anything more I will share it here.  Seems like yet again we are going to have to wait!





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26 Jan 2012 1:25 PM by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 197 posts Send private message

                                                     TO ALL AIFOS CREDITORS

My Spanish Lawyer has just informed me that they attended the Creditors Meeting and as soon as the information is translated to English it will be past on ASAP

Cheers





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28 Jan 2012 4:07 PM by dinohatahet Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

 Dear All,

we are creditors of Aifos, (Aifos Hippodromo) and we were contacted by an employee of Aifos 3 weeks ago, saying that they are now trying to sell some completed Aifos Properties which are going to be offered with a mortgage, and then get some cash in to complete the unfinished projects such as the Hippodromo. (he estimated this will be completed in 2 or 3 years)

He contacted me, to see if I could sell some of these apartments which have been discounted.

Hopefully there is something happening,  as our deposit has been with Aifos since 2003.

Our Block DERBY in Hippodromo, and the rest of the bloques (less 2 bloques) have been built, and in fact I have entered our apartment 4 years ago, and it was a shell, awaiting completion, and I guess it will not take much to complete.

This is a good forum to keep the information flowing amongst us creditors





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28 Jan 2012 5:24 PM by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 197 posts Send private message

Hi Dinohatahet,

Could you please tell us if the AIFOS employee, who contacted you, left  an e-mail address.

In 2004 we purchased on the Hacienda Marina Complex, however our particular block, Las Conchas was never built, and we would be interested in what AIFOS propose for buyers in our position.

Cheers





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28 Jan 2012 5:28 PM by dinohatahet Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

 

this page will not let me enter his email address

 

Matias Palomo

952129200

627945578

These are his details

good luck

Dino





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29 Jan 2012 12:43 PM by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 197 posts Send private message

Hi Dino,

I've sent you a P.M.

Cheers





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29 Jan 2012 1:57 PM by dinohatahet Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

 I have responded to your PM Belucky358

And Matias speaks perfect English

Dino





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31 Jan 2012 1:56 PM by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 197 posts Send private message

Hi Dino,

Sent Mr. Matias Palomo an e-mail and I have just had a reply which reads, " Me acaba de llegar esto "

My basic translation is " I just got this "

What do you make of this, I am hoping it means that he is acknowledging receiving the message and further information will follow ??

Cheers





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31 Jan 2012 2:46 PM by dinohatahet Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

 Hello Belucky358

I think this is exactly what he means !! 

Let's hope he will deal with the matter soon,

Please keep us informed.

Regards

Dino





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02 Feb 2012 11:35 AM by ads Star rating. 4039 posts Send private message

Has anyone considered or taken advice about making a claim against the Bank(s) associated with Aifos developments, as an alternative legal option to accepting the offer from Aifos (citing law 57/68)?





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02 Feb 2012 5:07 PM by belucky358 Star rating in North Yorkshire. 197 posts Send private message

Hi Ads,      

Since it is becoming more than likely that we will not see the return of our money from AIFOS, it maybe the only route left to take.

Unfortunately , as with many other people, I do not have a Bank Guarantee, and because my Contract does not give any details of the Bank into which my money was paid, I am at a lose as to which Bank I would make a claim.

My original Spanish Lawyer was obviously employed by AIFOS, as was my English Estate Agents, I suspect, therefore the only care they took of my purchase, was to flees me, of as much money as possible.   I have asked my original Lawyer to inform me of the details of the Bank into which he paid my money, but he does not reply, I have been informed  from various sources that  the only way to obtain this information is to take this Lawyer to court, which is more expense.

I have found out that seven Spanish Banks have been taken over by Bankia, S.A. which could possibly mean more complications if my unknown bank was one of these seven.

However  to look on the bright side my State Pension  goes up by £5.30p a week, in April

Cheers





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06 Feb 2012 10:04 AM by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1648 posts Send private message

belucky358

yes, we are in the same situation, though we can track our money to two banks. If any lawyer was confident enough of the law 57/68 to tell us our chance of success was more than 50% or even better would  take our case on as 'no win-no fee', then it would give us confidence that that route was worthwhile. I think the reality is that the whole bloody government and justice system in Spain is so bent that no amount of' 'being in the right' stands for anything, it just makes you a mug for having faith in anyone who holds a position of legal trust.





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06 Feb 2012 12:19 PM by mega Star rating. 73 posts Send private message

Hi goodstich,

                        May be you could try maria at costaluzlawyors she seems on the ball,good luck let us know how you get on

Regards Mega


 



This message was last edited by mega on 06/02/2012.



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06 Feb 2012 12:42 PM by goodstich44 Star rating in northampton. 1648 posts Send private message

mega

I have spoken to maria about this, but get much the same answer in that there is no certainty that this route will work?. Having said that, I think maria feels that this route is our only chance of getting any money back however small?. I think maria has had success in a two or three cases through this route?, but when you consider have many are in the same boat and the percentage who have had their money returned, despite the fantastic factual petitions raised, the odds look pretty hopeless. I just don't have the money to gamble or feel like waiting years more for a decision that seems to have poor odds at best of a 'real'  win as in return of monies. If I had any trust in the justice system then I would be keener to give it a try, but even the best lawyers know that being in the right in Spain doesn't mean justice like we more often than not take for granted in the UK. The Spanish justice system is very often just one 'wrong' after another sadly, and there's no body of regulation to put a stop to it.





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06 Feb 2012 1:56 PM by Keith110 Star rating in the UK and I am lead.... 682 posts Send private message

Hi

In some circumstances, where the developer is bankrupt or in administration then probably the only way to stand a chance of recovering your deposit would be to take action according to LEY 57/68 against the developers Bank that accepted your off-plan deposit.  Normally this would also be the bank that was funding the project/developer.

But as Goodstitch correctly points out - no Lawyer can guarantee that this route would be 100% successful.  The fact that this is still a relatively new course of action coupled with the fact that the Spanish legal system is inconsistent to say the least, makes most people nervous of paying out more in legal fees for this purpose.

On a positive note there are now several instances of Provincial Court Judgments (Santander, Cantabria, Burgos, Alicante, Murcia etc.), the Supreme Court of Navarra and various First Instance Courts in which Judges have ruled on the liability of the Banks according to LEY 57/1968.

Also I read on Maria's blog last week that Caja Murcia actually refunded one of her clients on receipt of the Lawsuit - without the matter proceeding to court.  The notable fact in this case was that no Bank Guarantee existed.  However, Caja Murcia, the bank who accepted the off-plan deposit, must have thought that they had little chance of a successful defence to the Lawsuit and therefore decided to pay out.

http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/6645/legal-tip-693-caja-murcia-settling.aspx

Kind regards

Keith



 



_______________________

LEY 57/1968
CLICK HERE FOR THE BANK GUARANTEES IN SPAIN WEBSITE

       
      

fpag@btinternet.com




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