Running a community without an administrator

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19 Aug 2011 12:00 AM by fredsmith200 Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Hi,

I am the President of an urbanisation with 120 properties, we are not happy with our administrators and want to know how easy it is to run an urbanisation without one.

We already produce our own budgets each year and our own quarterly financial reports we also deal with most suppliers directly without going through the administrator. As far as we can see the administrator just deals with the bank, we have very little debts to worry about.

We would like to control everything ourselves with perhaps just paying a solicitor as and when we need legal advice.

Has any other communities taken this action and decided to control everything themselves without an administrator and if so has it worked?.

Any advice would be gratefully received





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19 Aug 2011 1:16 AM by EOS Team Star rating in In Spain of course!. 4015 posts Send private message

EOS Team´s avatar

I don't know of any communities that have done this but the thought scares me!

I was president of our community for 3 years and, as you'll know, the president and the administrator generally have a tough job to do.

Our community has always been unhappy with our administrators and we are on our fourth in six years...surely a record?

Managing everyone's community fees payments, every individual issue, arranging meetings, putting the minutes together, fully understanding the horizontal law...I don't know many president who would be prepared to take all that and more on.

I'm sure it's possible but it's also a huge responsibility to take on.

Justin



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19 Aug 2011 8:40 AM by REIDPJ Star rating. 239 posts Send private message

Mazarron Country Club (800+ properties) runs its own affairs - and very successfully.  The hard working president, Barry (username fighter 2), is backed up by an equally hard working team of committed owners.

 

Peter

 





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19 Aug 2011 8:51 AM by fredsmith200 Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Hi Justin,

Thanks for your reply, We have had several issues with the administrator over the years and have asked many other Presidents in the area on how they rate their administrators but so far I have not found one who would actually recommend the people they use. So we have three options.

1.Carry on with the one we are using and give them warnings each year.

2.Find another, who could be far worse.

3.Try running our own affairs.

I am very interested in hearing from any committee who have actually taken the plunge and do all of the work themselves, it is not so much the financial savings, although any extra coming into the community would be welcome but more the feeling we are not in control of our own affairs and paying someone good money who has no interest in the lives of the people who actually live here.

Thanks.



This message was last edited by EOS Team on 19/08/2011.



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19 Aug 2011 12:23 PM by Fighter2 Star rating. 237 posts Send private message

Hi Jim,

Firstly a thanks to ReidPJ for his kind comments, I am the Barry that he illustrates as the President of MCC and we do indeed have over 800 properties and a very diverse ownership status from the whole of Europe including some Spanish, owner occupiers, investors with several properties, owners who have never used the property and seemingly never will.
 
We have had a series of Presidents and Administrators, who collectively drove the urbanisation to the point of bankruptcy in September 2009... a gross debt of some €175k and accumulating at a rate of some 10k per month. We had an unfinished urbanisation where 50% of the  houses had generators supplying electricity, an unfinished water supply with outages July / August which was in fact administered and controlled by our administrator. Despite all this in September 2009 at the AGM the outgoing president actually sponsored an increase in the budget expenditure ( of course supported by the administrator) which would have sent the debt ever higher and certain bankruptcy with the ensuing cost to each owner.
 
Our existing suppliers by their own admission, let's say were in the pockets of the administrator, the administrator tried to rig the election process and force us down the court route in order that the owners could  choose their own president and committee, it took 3 months for an EGM to overwhelmingly make him realise his time was up..... BUT still he persevered and would not pass over all of the community documents for another 3 months, finally he resigned but not after various and many threats and an attempt to discredit us by denying his resignation was offered.
 
It was a salutary lesson about administrators and one that we shall never forget, they have one goal... to make money from an urbanisation which in itself is fine,  they however are almost always understaffed to complete the task, they have no affinity with the urbanisation and absolutely no empathy with owners and their problems and prepared to use any method to increase their income..
 
Since elected, we are now in our second year we have, eradicated debt,  have private owner comm fee debt at a monthly level of 5% or less ( previously more than 30%),  have money in the reserve fund that exceeds our legal commitment,  have connected most of the estate to Iberdrola and have just been given the green light for the remainder,  completed the water infrastructure which has rendered the outages in July and August a thing of the past we have progressively reduced our monthly expenditure from €46k down to  €20k we have no administrator and employ on an as needs basis the advice of an English speaking Abogado and professional translators... as Peter has kindly said we have been very successful and we are now in a position to invest in our living environment.
 
That success has been due to the formidable team of owners with many skills amongst them who have worked tirelessly to bring us back from a position of utter despair to one of a bright future, smiling faces, good community spirit and above all contented owners (in the main)... no longer is there the 'we are being ripped of mindset'  that gives the opportunity for people to refuse to pay, we are trusted and provide as much information as is possible including regular meaningful updates, quarterly statements and 6 monthly reconciled accounts and balance sheet details to all owners. We also open a community office staffed by members of the team 3 days a week, we have a German/ English/ Spanish interpretor on hand for 2 of those openings.
 
We have been able to achieve this because of ..
 
1) The size of the team that was prepared to stand with Myself and the VP ( the only 2 elected people)
2) The dedication of those people during some very difficult times and the amount of quality hours they have been prepared to commit to the cause.
3) The trust and understanding afforded us by all but a very small handful of the previous regimes and even that situation has begun to wane at last.
4) We treat the urbanisation as our own ( the communities) business with a turnover of some €400k plus.
 
 We undertake ALL tasks we have built our own database, a team that chases our own debts with some help from the agencies that have sprung up especially in the UK,  have not taken a single owner to court since we were elected, we are still dealing with the backlog from that route some 5 years down the line !!! We manage through various teams our suppliers and banks, we have a specialist team that run our accounts and another team that report them on a management basis. We have a specialist and highly experienced team that have driven and guided our successful electricity and water projects and even our own IT team that have built up our IT system and  database and manages it's use and improvement.
 
One thing we had to do was win the help and trust of the local Ayuntamiento AND the almost bankrupt Developer ( who does not pay comm fees), that took some time but those relationships have been key elements of our ability to deal with the many problems we had and the ones we have remaining.
 
In summary John and to all of you frustrated Presidents or rudderless communities the message from here is clear... you can do it if you have the people 'willing to get stuck in', you will need some experience, I work in Spain for a multinational and that has helped understand the 'Spainish way' and we have some retired professionals from the UK and Europe together with ordinary people who wanted to contribute to helping us emerge from where we were, you will need to be extremely firm with and resist threats from the current Administrator and even that profession.... but HPL clearly gives you the right to manage your own destiny regardless of the statutes that are in place in your urbanisation, we took advice on this and got the all clear.
 
If you need or want to do it go for it.... I am certain you will benefit from the move and your eyes will be opened to what Administrators really do get up to as opposed to what we think they do. If you need any further advice don’t hesitate to email or PM me
 
Best regards
 
Barry  MCC


 



This message was last edited by Fighter2 on 19/08/2011.



This message was last edited by Fighter2 on 19/08/2011.



This message was last edited by Fighter2 on 19/08/2011.



This message was last edited by Fighter2 on 19/08/2011.



This message was last edited by Fighter2 on 19/08/2011.



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19 Aug 2011 4:37 PM by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

i would suggest you find an administrator you can get along with and then agree responsibilites that work for you and your community.

For an established community it can be an easy task - collect fees and pay bills and the odd meeting - what's your debtor situation like?

For a community of that size you might expect to pay maybe  EUR5k - some especially if appointed initially by developer will charge EUR15k.

The problem with running your own community is it will be the same 10 interested people doing all the work and the rest will do nothing but sit back and probably just complain or accuse you of stealing.

I think you are better off with an administrator and I would never be admistrator of any community I lived on.


 



This message was last edited by Faro on 19/08/2011.



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19 Aug 2011 8:12 PM by fredsmith200 Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Hi Faro,

I totally understand what you are saying and we have considered the point about virtually being the administrator on the urb where we live but being President on the urb where you live can be the same. Our issue is that we have very little contact with our administrators anyway. Owners come direct to the committee and any moans and groans come our way now. The administrators are useless at chasing the small debts we have, we do that in house with great success, they only thing they really do is collect the fees and they do that badly, quite often not on time.

Whatever happens it will be down to the owners to decide not the committee and we have three months before our AGM, so this gives us time to gather more info, good and bad.

 





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20 Aug 2011 9:49 AM by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

If you elect to manage your own community would those that take on that responsibility do that on a total voluntary basis or would they be paid for their time and re-imbursed for expenses etc.

There is a fair bit of work in being an administrator and more so in dealing with all the little problems and keeping on top of the accouts etc.

I have always felt there is a lot of confusion surrounding all the roles ie President, Administrator, Maintenance and getting that right is important and then letting people know how your community works and to whom a complaint should be notified - ie when the garage door does not open at 1am do you go and knock on the President's door?





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20 Aug 2011 10:20 AM by fredsmith200 Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Hi Faro,

Although some of the owners say we should be paid for the work we do in the community, I do not accept this and feel it should be on a voluntary basis only. As you said in your earlier post, there will be a small band of owners who will do all of the work and the others will sit on the sidelines but generally all of the owners here pull together and are very supportive of the committee.

With regard to the extra work, I think we do most of it at the moment as we have done for several years.

We, not the administrator, deal directly with most suppliers, including pool and gardens etc. Every year we have to re write both the budget  for the following year and financial reports for the current year as they are usually either wrong or misleading. As President I have only spoken to the administrators about three times in the past year and twice it was to complain about their lack of service in the very few things they do.

It is the committee who chase the debtors, it is the committee who sends out emails about untidy gardens

As far as I can see all they do which we do not do at the moment is deal with the bank but as virtually every owner is either current business professional or retired, I cannot see that there should be any real issue with that.

It will be down to the owners whether we change but I am pleased to see that others have great success in running their own affairs.

 





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20 Aug 2011 11:37 AM by Faro Star rating in London. 1139 posts Send private message

It sounds like you simply have a bad administrator and the more you do the less he does.

Why have you never tried to replace him? If you have the support of most of the owners then that should be quite an easy task?

How much is currently charging you for such a shoddy service?





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20 Aug 2011 12:40 PM by fredsmith200 Star rating. 5 posts Send private message

Hi Faro,

We are paying around 6,000 euros per year, its not the money, we are concerned about but as you say the shoddy service but as I said before, I cannot find any President in the area who is happy with their Administrators,

We will see what happens between now and the AGM and then the owners will decide how they wish to proceed.





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