Early retirement and healthcare in Spain

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09 May 2015 5:15 PM by Jarvi Star rating in Halifax UK and Sucin.... 757 posts Send private message

"If you try using the EHIC for more than emergency treatment you are likely to be refused care or even be faced with a large bill."

Whilst on holiday recently my wife had to have a blood test as she needs anti-coagulant treatment in the uk, (not really an emergency), we went to the local clinic showed her EHIC, they did the test, no problem, no charge.

 





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09 May 2015 6:21 PM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

The interpretation of the word 'emergency' is left to  the medical professional in charge. In my experience taking that sort of risk is likely to come unstuck. When living in another country healthcare needs guarantees. I believe in playing by the rules.



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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09 May 2015 6:48 PM by mariedav Star rating in Ciudad Quesada. 1222 posts Send private message

Procedures like INR and diabetic testing are included in the EHIC cover. Requirements for regular injections, like Vitamin B for example, is also covered although you would have to pay for the actual medication.

Although pre-existing conditions are not covered, if you have an asthma attack or similar then that will also be covered as it is classed as an emergency.

 





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09 May 2015 11:06 PM by Poppyseed Star rating. 897 posts Send private message

Pre-existing conditions are covered by the EHIC as is any treatment due to illness or injury, it does not cover private medical costs and it's all on the NHS website.

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/about-the-ehic.aspx

This is from the website,

Each country's health system is different, and might not include all the things you would expect to get free of charge from the NHS. This means you may have to make a patient contribution to the cost of your care. For more information, see our county-by-country guide.

New EHIC rules mean you will no longer be able to claim refunds for patient contributions (co-payments) in the UK for treatment received after July 1 2014.

  • The EHIC will cover any medical treatment that becomes necessary during your trip, such as an illness or accident.

In an emergency, you can dial the European emergency number 112 from any telephone or mobile phone. 

 

  • The card gives access to reduced-cost or free medical treatment from state healthcare providers. This includes treatment of a chronic or pre-existing medical condition that becomes necessary during your visit.
  • It includes routine maternity care (not only because of illness or an accident), as long as you're not going abroad to give birth. However, if the birth happens unexpectedly, the card will cover the cost of all medical treatment for mother and baby that is linked to the birth.
  • The card covers the provision of oxygen and kidney dialysis, although you will have to arrange and pre-book these treatments before you go on holiday. You can ask your GP or hospital for advice, but make sure you are not booked with a private healthcare provider, as these are not covered by the EHIC.
  • The card also covers routine medical care for people with pre-existing conditions that need monitoring.

The EHIC is not an alternative to travel insurance. It will not cover any private medical healthcare or costs, such as mountain rescue in ski resorts, being flown back to the UK, or lost or stolen property. Therefore, it is important to have both an EHIC and a valid private travel insurance policy. Some insurers now insist you hold an EHIC, and many will waive the excess if you have one.

The EHIC will not cover your medical expenses if you are going abroad specifically to have treatment (including giving birth). Read more about planned treatment abroad.

You may not be able to use the card in some parts of the EEA, as state-provided healthcare may not be available.

 


This message was last edited by Poppyseed on 09/05/2015.


This message was last edited by Poppyseed on 09/05/2015.

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10 May 2015 9:51 AM by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1833 posts Send private message

Clearly the EHIC system is designed to provide medical care for people temporarily visiting an EU country.

The OP wrote he/she wanted to live in Spain and use this system for their healthcare to avoid costs. Without wishing to moralise the rights and wrongs of doing that, if enough people behave that way the Spanish will take action to prevent it and have already started doing that.

That in turn will inevitably cause difficulties for genuine people visiting Spain on holiday who need emergency treatment.

The Spanish healthcare system is already creaking under the pressure of cuts and lack of funding since the recession. If Rajoy is re-elected this year some form of privatization will have be brought in to provide extra funding. Which means higher costs for everyone. In France where a top up insurance has been required for years the costs are escalating for older people. Around €200 per month for a retired couple for full cover. If you use the EHIC card in France proof of temporary stay is always required.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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10 May 2015 9:55 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

TeamGB

So just to be clear you are saying any Spanish citizen who has not worked for more than 6 months and is not a dependent will not get any state health care - I find that very hard to believe as I know quite a few Spanish who have not worked for a long time and have seen them at docs.

In fact only last month I gave a Spanish friend, (55ysr old not worked, 2 children unemployed, wife unemployed, not a dependent) a lift to the hospital for treatment where he had to have someone who could drive to bring him home due to anesthetic. He had a valid SIP card as I helped in check in at Torrevieja hospital!

edited to add this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_National_Health_System


This message was last edited by Tadd1966 on 10/05/2015.

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10 May 2015 11:07 AM by lobin Star rating. 256 posts Send private message

Hi Tadd

Following in Spanish are the regulations about people with the right to healthcare in Spain.  The correct answer is halfway between Team GB and yours.  Not every Spanish citizen has the right to free healthcare without having paid into the system but some Spanish and EU citizens that have not paid into the system do have the right to free healthcare.

Here are the rules in Spanish.  Sorry but I do not have the time right now to translate them.

La asistencia sanitaria en España, con cargo a fondos públicos, a través del Sistema Nacional de Salud (SNS), se garantizará a aquellas personas que ostenten la condición de asegurado. 

  • Tendrán la condición de asegurado aquellas personas que se encuentren en alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
     
    1. Ser trabajador por cuenta ajena o por cuenta propia, afiliado a la Seguridad Social y en situación de alta o asimilada a la de alta. 
    2. Ostentar la condición de pensionista del sistema de la Seguridad Social. 
    3. Ser perceptor de cualquier otra prestación periódica de la Seguridad Social, incluidas la prestación y el subsidio por desempleo u otras de similar naturaleza. 
    4. Haber agotado la prestación o el subsidio por desempleo u otras prestaciones de similar naturaleza, encontrarse en situación de desempleo, no acreditar la condición de asegurado por cualquier otro título y residir en España. Este supuesto no será de aplicación a las personas a las que se refiere el artículo 3 ter de la Ley 16/2003, de 28 de mayo (extranjeros no registrados ni autorizados como residentes en España). 
       
  • Las personas no comprendidas en el punto anterior ni en el artículo 3 del R.D. 1192/2012, de 3 de agosto, que, no teniendo ingresos  superiores, en cómputo anual, a cien mil euros (100.000) ni cobertura obligatoria de la prestación sanitaria por otra vía, se encuentren en algunos de los supuestos siguientes: 
     
    • Tener nacionalidad española y residir en territorio español.
    • Ser nacionales de algún Estado miembro de la Unión Europea, del Espacio Económico Europeo o de Suiza y estar inscritos en el Registro Central de Extranjeros.
    • Ser nacionales de un país distinto de los mencionados en los apartados anteriores, o apátridas, y titulares de una autorización para residir en territorio español, mientras ésta se mantenga vigente en los términos previstos en su normativa específica. 
    Para la aplicación del límite de ingresos previsto, se tendrán en cuenta los ingresos íntegros obtenidos por rendimientos del trabajo, del capital, de actividades económicas y por ganancias patrimoniales. A estos efectos, en el caso de haberse presentado la declaración del Impuesto sobre la Renta de las Personas Físicas (IRPF) aplicado en territorio español, se tendrá en cuenta la suma del importe de las bases liquidables de dicho impuesto.

    Para la aplicación del límite de ingresos se tomará como referencia el último ejercicio fiscal para los períodos comprendidos entre el 1 de noviembre del año siguiente a dicho ejercicio y el 31 de octubre posterior.

    En todo caso, se entiende que no superan el límite de ingresos los contribuyentes que, con arreglo a la normativa reguladora del IRPF, no estén obligados a declarar por dicho impuesto.

    Por lo que respecta a la consideración de cobertura obligatoria de la prestación sanitaria por otra vía, no tendrá tal consideración la derivada de seguros obligatorios especiales, de riesgos para la salud derivados de actividades concretas desarrolladas por la persona asegurada, tanto si los concierta ella o es a través de un tercero. Tampoco tendrá esta consideración el estar encuadrado en una mutualidad de previsión social alternativa al régimen correspondiente del sistema de la Seguridad Social.
  • Los menores de edad sujetos a tutela administrativa tendrán la consideración de personas aseguradas.




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10 May 2015 11:38 AM by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1754 posts Send private message

lobin

This is very similar to what i stated in the wikipedia link I posted andit is not as clear as TeamGB stated. Many Spanish citizens do not work (for many reasons), many have only ever worked on the black market, many don't have parents who are alive or working etc etc etc yet they get health care because they are a citizen of Spain and the same will apply if you are legally resident here and actively looking for work

One way around this is to ensure you are registered as unemployed and activley seeking work. In order to do this you would have to have residency status (either EU or non EU or Spanish)

The main problem is those early retirees who come to Spain without an income, not registering and working on the black market!

The amended law of 1986 is very clear about who gets healthcare including registerd foreigners. The 2012 change makes it a bit more diffcult to get registered as a permanent resident for foreigners but not impossible

As simple work around

Fo self employed (autonomo) for say 3 months, get registered, close business and sign on you should get health care maybe not benefts but there are some very minimal benfits available to some on a non contributory scheme 'Subsidio de desempleo'  see link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits_in_Spain

As you said it is not as black and white as some in the expat community seem to think

Other links

http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/empl_portal/SSRinEU/Your%20social%20security%20rights%20in%20Spain_en.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=858

more info (there is so much on the net

Spanish Benefit System

If you have been employed (not for self employed autónomos) in Spain then you may be entitled to unemployment and incapacity benefits from the Spanish social security system.

Unemployment Benefit

If you have worked in Spain and your employer has paid contributions you can claim for unemployment benefit at your local Servicio Público de Empleo SEPE office. (www.sepe.es). You can also complete a CA3916 form to prove your contributions in the UK. ( National Insurance Contributions and Employer Office. Telephone: 0044 191 203 7010)

Disability Benefit

If you have worked and paid contributions in Spain you can claim for incapacity benefit at your local Social Seguridad office. (ww.seg-social.es). You can also complete a CA3916 form to prove your contributions in the UK. ( National Insurance Contributions and Employer Office. Telephone: 0044 191 203 7010)

Means Tested Benefit

If you have been living in Spain for at least five years, are aged 18-65 years old and have a low income or been affected by an illness / disability then you may be eligible to receive a non contributory invalidity benefit - Pensión de invalidez no contributiva. (www.imserso.es)

If you are aged over 65 years old and have been resident in Spain for over 10 years on a low income then you may be eligible for a non contributory retirement pension - Pensión de jubilación no contributiva. (www.imserso.es)

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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