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16 Nov 2009 12:00 AM by zantys Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

could anyone tell me if the president of the communiy  can refuse to put items on the a g m agenda

i would like to to put a item to be discussed  but  he refuses to put it on the agenda as he the right to do this 





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16 Nov 2009 8:28 PM by spanishsolicitor Star rating in Murcia. 140 posts Send private message

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Last paragraph of section 16 (2) of the Horizontal Property Act provides:
'Any owner may request the Owners’ Committee to examine and resolve any matter whatsoever which concerns the commonhold. For this purpose a request in writing should be sent to the president setting out clearly the items requested to be dealt with. The president shall then include them in the agenda of the following meeting'
 
It is compulsory for the president to include any business demanded by owners if such a request has been made in writing and is clearly expressed. The motion must include a brief general description of the business to be transacted or discussed at the meeting.
Since any resolution has not yet been adopted, the only legal resource available for any owner to whom a proposal has been rejected would be to take legal action through ordinary proceedings asking the court for an order which obliges the president to include the owner’s request.
Due to the slowness of Spaniard justice it must be also applied, within the action, for any required precautionary measures.


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17 Nov 2009 9:35 AM by zantys Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

this has already been done with no conclusion i requested it to be included in the minutes of the agm which is to be held in January 2010.  Can the President refuse to do this.





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17 Nov 2009 9:43 AM by spanishsolicitor Star rating in Murcia. 140 posts Send private message

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No, the president can’t refuse to include your request. In order to force him you must go to Court


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17 Nov 2009 12:07 PM by zantys Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

23 Nov 2009 12:09 PM by zantys Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

If a request has been put in front of the Committee Meeting and has been rejected, is it within our right to request, in writing, for it to be put on the Agenda at the next AGM.  If so, can the President refuse to do this.





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30 Nov 2009 11:44 AM by bluefox Star rating. 50 posts Send private message

that's very true that an owner or owner's request is added to an agm agenda , as an acting pres. the only thing a pres might do is to disuade a request if he/she thought it could be in some way disruptive to the communnity.

a slight change of tack, could someone tell me that if a communnity decide's to change admin. i know there has to be 25% of a comm. or more to decide this, but if the president disagree's, does he/she still have to "go along" with the comm. if they vote in favour of a change ? i know that the acting president has to sign a cotract to employ a administrater / lawyer, but if in total disagreement of a change, what happen's then ? or does the pres. just has to sign on behalf of the comm ? thank's in advance, regard's bluefox.    





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30 Nov 2009 12:42 PM by spanishsolicitor Star rating in Murcia. 140 posts Send private message

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Bluefox
 
I am sorry but I think you are a bit confused about the role of a president in a community. He or she is just an officer of a mini-democracy, thus he or she might not “dissuade a request” even “if he/she thought it could be in some way disruptive to the community”
Regarding the change of an Administrator in a community the answer is clear. It is required the majority of the owners in a meeting. Once the resolution is passed the president on behalf of the community will sign the contract with the new administrator. If the president does not obtain the consent of the owners, the contract may be challenged and will be of no effect
 
The duties of a president are provided by law:
 
i.              To summon ordinary meetings of the OC at least once a year.
ii.             To summon extraordinary meetings when he or she finds it necessary.
iii.            To chair the meetings of the OC supervising its running.
iv.            To acknowledge requests from the owners addressing them to the OC, in particular those issues stemmed from section   7 (1).
v.             To prepare and bring court actions representing the commonhold demanding commonholders to cease in their actions in accordance with section 7 (2).
vi.            To warn owners of breaches in their duties ensuring that all commonholders observe their obligations towards the commonhold as a whole and in relation to other owners in particular. The president shall, in particular, use any right, power or procedure conferred by virtue of the Act for the purpose of preventing, remedying or curtailing a failure on the part of a commonholder to comply with a requirement or duty imposed on him by virtue of the title or a provision of the Act.
vii.           To sign agreements with providers or suppliers provided that the Owners’ Committee has decided so in pursuance of section 14 (e).
 
On the other hand the Owners’ Committee or all the owners who attend a meeting have the following roles in accordance with section 14
 
(a) To appoint and to remove persons for the aforementioned offices (presidents, vice-presidents, secretary, administrators) in the previous section and to deal with any claims presented by owners against the performance of their functions.
 
(b) To approve the budget of foreseeable expenses and income and the corresponding accounts.
 
(c) To approve estimates and authorise all repair works to be performed on the property, whether ordinary or extraordinary, and to be informed of any urgent measures adopted by the administrator in accordance with the terms of section 20 (c)
 
(d) To approve or amend the Articles and establish the internal rules.
 
(e) To inquire into and resolve on the other matters of general interest to the community, adopting those measures deemed necessary or advisable for the best common service.
 
 


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02 Dec 2009 12:26 AM by bluefox Star rating. 50 posts Send private message

thank's for that, it's just one or two item's in community law that's abit confusing, as in i asked, is it true that 25% + vote's of a communnity are needed to change the admin. ? what i get from your reply is that if a e.g.m is called it's the majority of how many show up, then take the vote and the majority rule's.  we are a very big complex, so does that mean if only, say  only 20 owner's show up it mean's they decide for the rest, which mean's it's not 25% of the communnity is needed, as i think it states in comm. law. regard's bluefox. 





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02 Dec 2009 9:35 AM by spanishsolicitor Star rating in Murcia. 140 posts Send private message

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In order to understand the voting system established in the Horizontal Property Act we have to bear in mind that the meetings can be held in first or second call in accordance with the last paragraph of  section 16 (2) of the Act.
 
Where a majority of owners representing a majority of the whole commonhold allocations (quotas) are not present at the time of the first call, the meeting shall then be convened on second call without the need for a quorum.
 
The meeting shall be held on second call at the place and on the date and time set forth in the first call and may take place the same day at least half an hour later than the first call.
 
Imagine a community with 100 villas, each one with 1%. If 51 or more of the owners are present at the time set forth in the first call then the meeting will be held at first call. If only 50 owners turn up the meeting is held at second call.
 
Now, imagine a more complicated community with 50 villas, each one with 1.5 % and 50 flats each one with 0.5 %. The situation becomes more complicated because it is required both elements – first, the majority of owners and secondly the majority of quotas (shares) - in order to quorate a meeting in first or second call.
 
The cases could be
Case 1º 10 villas’ owners (15%) and 60 flats’ owners (30%) are present.
Although there are 70 owners the meeting will be held in second call because it is not reached the second requirement of majority of the quotas.
Case 2º 40 villas’ owners (60%) and 10 flats’ owners (5%) are present.
Although there are 65% “shares the meeting will be held in second call because it is not reached the first requirement of majority of owners
 
 
The difference between hold a meeting in first or second call is established in section 17 (3)
If the meeting is held in first call a majority can be reached on the basis of the total owners and shares of the community whether present or not at the meting.
If the meeting is held in second call a majority can be reached on the basis of those owners present at the meeting.
 
Thus, the voting system is made up by two inseparable elements:
1º one vote for each owner (regardless of the number of properties each owner has only one vote)
2º shares or quotas of each property (one owner could use all the quotas of all the properties owned)
 
The act only breaks that rule on the assumption of the quorum needed to call for a meeting by owners. In this case it is sufficient the 25 per cent of the owners or  25% of the shares
In regard of the change of an administrator a community needs both, the majority of the owners and the majority of the shares
 
 


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02 Dec 2009 11:53 AM by Poppyseed Star rating. 897 posts Send private message

Is it usual for villa owners to have a larger share than apartment owners? We have a villa and pay a higher quota than the apartment owners, but as far as I know we all have equal shares.

Regards, Poppyseed



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02 Dec 2009 12:14 PM by spanishsolicitor Star rating in Murcia. 140 posts Send private message

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Yes, Poppyseed, it is usual for villa owners to have a larger share than flat owners.
It is unusual to have equal shares and pay higher quota.
You should find out if the villas of your community have really equal share, if so the calculation of the quotas is wrong.
As you probably know the calculation of the quotas is usually based on the shares but there are some exceptions which require unanimous vote


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02 Dec 2009 1:45 PM by bluefox Star rating. 50 posts Send private message

again thank's a mill for that, it's a little clearer and like you say can be confusing, in our case and altho' it's a big apt, complex we only have studio's but mostly one bed. unit's, so, that make's thing's less complicated, and the 25% of the comm. vote's to change anything major. thank's again bluefox. 





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