HELP NEEDED URGENTLY PLEASE

Those of you who read the forum will know we have had lots of problems with the garage area under our apartments.

This seems to be coming to a head now.

The garage area has not been handed over so still belongs to the builder although we paid 6,600€ for a garage space nearly 5 years ago. He has not put in the electronic gates and there is no lighting etc etc. A few weeks ago our administrater was told by the builder that they were going to sell the garage spaces to the general public. Last week a rep from the builder appeared and said they were going to put in the electronics, lighting etc. and to sort out the flooding problem they were going to block in the vehicle exit. ( our Community HAS sorted out the flooding problem at expense to the Community but the builder says he's going to block it up anyway ).

Right, about an hour ago, 3 reps from the builders arrived plus architect and said they were coming on Saturday to hose down the garage area and everything must be out of the garage. Also we could not store anything down there ( there are about 30 of the 180 garage spaces sold and most of us have some kind of storage boxes and / or bicycles down there on our own areas which we have paid for.

On our deeds, it says that we have paid for the garage space, with electronic opening and closing ( which we have never had ) AND TWO vehicular entrance / exits. The builder just said we can change that and this is our garage and we can build what we want and do or say what we want.

What I need to know is............................CAN THEY.

My problem is compounded by the fact that we go to UK on Thursday 24 till 4th Feb. and we don't want to leave our car on the street as it has been vandalised once already AND we have PAID FOR THE BLOOMING GARAGE SPACE 5 YEARS AGO!!!

 

Theproblem of our storage box ( which we were told by the selling agent was ok ) is another, tho less important issue, ecxept there is nowhere else to put it................................except on the space we have PAID FOR.

Please advise if you can................those who know me will understand from the tone of my post that I am losing it!! Thank goodness for EOS .

This message was last edited by Karensun on 1/21/2008.

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Karen, do you know, or can you find out quickly, if they have any permiso from the Town Hall to make any alterations - which blocking up an exit certainly would constitute? I really don't understand how they can claim it is "their" garage, when plenty of you have deeds for your part of it. They are joint owners, perhaps, but surely under the Horizontal Law, they cannot proceed with any such work without the unanimous agreement of all owners?

Obviously doesn't help that this coincides with your trip, but don't you have a vice-president or some other sufficiently concerned neighbours to take the reigns in your absence? If it was me, and I was not satisfied that they had the necessary permit, I would simply call the police, in the hope that they would ask to see the permit, and if it is not forthcoming, would stop the b******s in their tracks. Wishful thinking perhaps, but what else can you do? Silly question I suppose, but what the H*ll is your administrator doing to help?

As for the builder intending to sell off places to the general public, there may not be anything preventing them from doing so, although I remember from your previous posts that this would be an unsatifactory scenario since the garage is supposed to be only accesible to residents in the community (right?) The positive aspect of all this seems to be that you may finally get your lighting and electric gates.

Not that it's much compensation, but ours still floods everytime we have heavy rain, and we've got absolutely nowhere with either the builder or the water board.

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This gets worse!! Apparently the builder is going to knock a hole in our perimeter wall to drain flood water ( we were expressly forbidden to do this by the Administrator's lawyer ) AND he's going to build a wall to shut off the garages on OUR PROPERTY!!

Tell me, how can this happen.........................I am tearing my hair out !!!

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Like I said, where are the approved plans? There HAS to be a project submitted to the Town Hall Urbanismo dept. and approved before they can carry out such work. Any chance you can get to the Town Hall, or your admimnistrator better still, to check on this? No permissions, no-can do. Call the cops.

Having said that, we all know how things are here. Maybe the builder's brother-in-law's cousin's nephew is the chief of Police, and his wife's cousin's father-in-law's uncle is the Mayor, and there's b*****r all you can do about it.

Seriously though, surely the administrator and/or his lawyer should be dealing with this?

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Trouble is the garages are not ours.........so really it's nothing to do with our administator.

Bit of light at the end of the tunnel..............right now sitting in my lounge is a solicitor ( Spanish ) who is renting on of our apartments and my Hubby is going through it with her. She is going to sort out the Law tomorrow and she says this cannot happen......................she is great and said she will sort it. I am so relieved. Watch this space!!

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Glad to hear you have someone on your side who should be able to help. What a Godsend. Still don't really understand - "the garages aren't ours"? But you have an escritura for your space, no? Separate escritura to your apartment? With it's own finca ref no.?

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the apartment and the garage are on our deeds...................the apartment was handed over BUT the garage as a whole was never handed over ( possibly because the builder would have had to pay the Com fees ) I know we paid for the space...........but the garage as a whole is still the builders.

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Sorry, I know you've explained this before, but to save searching for the relevant thread (and for those who may be following this one) - are you saying that although the garage space is mentioned on your escritura, it does not actually have a separate finca number or referencia catastral? Does it instead perhaps mention anything about it being indivisable from the apartment? And if that is the case, I wonder what the status of the remaining spaces is? There are more spaces than apartments presumably? If the developer/builder is planning on selling these off individually, they would have to be registered individually, and in that case the whole garage would come under the Horizontal Laws on property division surely? In which case, you are a joint owner of the whole.

Just thinking aloud, so to speak. Don't know if it's any help?

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Dear Kansun:

I am sorry I did not see the thread yesterday, but of course.. if you have your garage registered in the Land Registry, that is you private property and nothing can be done without your consent. Make your opposition. Good that you find a good solicitor willing to help.

Best regards,

Maria

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Just seen this thread Karensun,

Please don't tear your hair out, it's a lovely cut and suits you better than being bald!

On a serious note, as a member of this community, I am horrified at what I have read.

Can we do anything individually?

I know you have e-mail addresses for loads of members, why not e-mail them and get everyone to bombard the builder or whoever, with protest e-mails?

Peter could draw up a draft that would be "legal" without being offensive, and everyone could send it?

Maybe, the builder may think again if there is strong and numerous opposition to his plans?

Just a thought, it may help.................................

Keep smiling..................

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Please take a look not only to you deeds but to the deeds where the property is split accordin with the Horizontal Law. Your are, of course, entitle to act individually if you wish but is the garege is into your purchase deed then normally it would be parte of the community. There ways in Spanish Law that provide agains this kind of action, do not refuse criminal actions, if the promoter acts without the community authorization he is near to some criminal situations.

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I cannot believe what has now come to light.

The solicitor who is trying to help has just telephoned. She says that right at the end of our deeds there is a clause that says the builder can do ANYTHING he wants durung the 10 years from the handover of the property if he deems that it is benificial to the Community. She has NEVER seen this before.

She says even if we go to court the builder can say it is in the best interests of the Community, when in fact, it is in his best interests.

For the first time since I came to live over here I feel that I want to be elsewhere and I feel totally let down.

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  Karensun I really feel for you this must be a nightmare.  So your Lawyer did not pick up on this or all of the other residents Lawyers, I really cannot understand that.  I hope their is someone that can help you, but it sounds like you have a fight on  your hands. Good Luck Pat  

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I still can't see how they can make physical alterations to the property without planning consent. Theoretically, even to make changes inside your apartment you need permission.  Written into our estatutos (but not our escritura) is a clause stating that the locale, which owns 5 garage places, can enclose them to make a storage area if they so desire (although it also states nobody else can enclose their space). But strictly speaking, to do so, they would still need to submit a project and get permission.

I would still consider taking the issue up with the Town Hall planning department. But I'm also not entirely sure what the problem is. It does sound like you may finally get your electric gates and lighting, so is there not a potential benefit here?

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The problem is that the builder is going to BLOCK up the exit from th e car park so we will be left with 1 opening that will be both entrance and exit from the garage area. This will have to service 180 car park spaces.

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Is that going to be a really major inconvenience? How much traffic do you anticipate going in and out? Can you see cars coming in the opposite direction easily enough? Are you going to get your automated gate and lighting provided at last? Setting principles aside, and remembering we are in Spain, perhaps it's not worth tearing your long suffering hubby's hair out over this? I hate to sound defeatist, but, well frankly, I only have 3 months left of my current term, and I'm just so sick of all the b******t here. If you think you can live with it, try to avoid getting stressed. It's not what we came here for.

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This thread is fascinating and at the same time mind boggling. Has anything developed today Karensun? Roberto do you seriously mean what I think you are saying in your last post??

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Well Gillespie, a visit to our Administrators this morning and him phoning the builder who said they did not know who had visited La Mirada yesterday is all that's happened so far!!

It's funny really cos we had this flooding problem for 3 ish years and yet the builder said yesterday he knew nothing about it................................despite himself having pumped out the flood water from the garage twice and himself installing a non return valve in the main drain pipe when it exploded cos of the back up of rain water off the road...................and YES.......the rainwater in our road goes directly into a sewer drain..and YES...the town hall are aware of that fact, but obviously not concerned with it.

Roberto, I can't believe what you're saying. 180 potential cars going IN and OUT of the same doorway???????? and that exit / entrance is partly obscured by parked cars ( on the street ) and leads directly onto a two way street, whereas the one that is going to be blocked up goes on to a one way street and is on a corner where you can see in both directions clearly.

The facts are, our deeds state 2 vehicular entrance and exit.

Another fact ( I am told, but not yet verified ie. I haven't seen it ) is that a clause at the end of the deed says the builder can do whatever he wants as long as it benifits the Community within 10 years of the handover..............apartments handed over 3 and a half years ago, garages NOT handed over.

SO......................if there is that clause, surely the actuall deeds mean nothing?? Because the builder can do what he wants, perhaps he will fill in the pool next.....in the interests of the Community of course---in case it carries Leigionairres disease perhaps??

I do not mean to sound flippant, but you may tell from this post, I am somewhat frazzled although I won't be tearing out my long suffering  Hubby's hair out over this Roberto, but I feel it is the begining of the end for me.

Tell me tho Roberto, how you gonna get out of being Presidente if no one else stands up to be elected...................only death or not being an owner excludes you from duty without an elected replacement??

 

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Karen's very concerned about all that's going on, you can tell. She's off to the UK tomorrow with all this hanging over her & her (President of their community) husband's heads (& there for the grace of God go many of you). This thread could help many in time, who knows ? Karen's head seems firmly screwed on & she & her OH have done so much to try to find out what the flying f**k's happening. I really feel for these good people who care for the community they live in & strive to do best for. Both feel out of their depth.

This message was last edited by morerosado on 1/24/2008.

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This may have a 'happy' ending!!!

Having been told so many conflicting words, I am still a bit wobbly on this one ........BUT.....................................the solicitor has spoken with the head of the building company in Orihuela and he said that they are no longer going to block off the garage. They are asking the town hall for planning permission to put in a much larger drain ( in the road ) and they are going to lower the bit of the ramp that comes directly out of the garage entrance ( we were going to do that anyway so that long wheel base cars are ok )

We now will wait with bated breath to see what happens. I really want to believe these words, BUT experience has told me to wait and see.

THANKYOU ALL for your replies, It's good to know there are people out there to share with.

Roberto, I still want to know how you're gonna get out of being Presidente for another term!!!!!! 

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