If you only spend 3 Months in Spain every Year.... Don't Buy....Rent

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28 May 2022 1:34 PM by ob123 Star rating in Southern Ireland. 190 posts Send private message

Hi Guys, We have a property in Spain since 2001 and we go there for a Month at the time 4 times every Year, it's costs about €2400 to run a 2 bed apartment,every Year, you can rent from €500 a Month so if you are only going for less than 3 Months don't buy. There were times when property went up in value but now the go down nearly all the time. here's a breakdown of costs per Year .....Community fees,€600 , Electricty €600, water €300, Sumo local tax €250, Non residencial tax €250, TV and Broadband OLA are very good about €400 a Year, we spend a day cleaning before we leave if you rent you just walk away..... now if you have a car make sure you buy a new one second cars are expensive anyway, a lot of German inports are ider Clocked, or Cut and Shut, I got caught mysely, you would get a new medium sized car for about €18,000 Insurance the cheapest is Linea Directa covers you anywhere in Europe, about €450 and sumo or car tax €50 cheap.





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28 May 2022 8:21 PM by acer Star rating. 1492 posts Send private message

ob123,

Your first advice re "to buy or rent" is based on recent years, which cannot be guarenteed for the future. You probably did OK if you bought in 2001.

Of course we're all guessing, but the market will change sometime and almost inevitably prices must increase.  The cost of building materials is rising steeply, so generally are land costs, so a spec builder will struggle to compete with the price of existing property on the market.

A while ago there was a lot of unfinished new builds left over from the property crash of 2007/2008 - that's now significantly diminished and the market is likely to change when stability returns. 

Yes, rental prices are absurdly cheap and the affects of Schengen may keep it that way for a while, but renting is too short term for me - and renting in Spain is best avoided, unless you really know what you're doing!



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29 May 2022 10:28 AM by ob123 Star rating in Southern Ireland. 190 posts Send private message

Our property cost €85,000 in 2001 now it's worth about €65 max, because the modern Apartment's are selling better ours now is a bit dated, but the hidden costs they never tell you about when you are buying, we found out about 3 Years after and had to pay up all the sumo bills and residencial costs.....that's criminal in my eyes, thanks for putting your thought in the thread....





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29 May 2022 11:19 AM by acer Star rating. 1492 posts Send private message

ob123,

There are masses of people with negative equity in their property.  But there are undoubtedly a far larger number in Spain who've done OK out of the their property investment over the years.

I believe your comments regarding renting are misguided.  Short term possibly, long term it's money down the drain IMO.  You are very much exposed to trusting landlords in Spain too, if you rent - sometimes not a good position!

You say..."but the hidden costs they never tell you about when you are buying, we found out about 3 Years after and had to pay up all the sumo bills and residencial costs.....that's criminal in my eyes"...

It's only "criminal" if the fact you have to pay Sumo bills and other residential costs was denied when you made your enquiries prior to purchase.  Surely otherwise these expenses are to be expected?



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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.



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29 May 2022 12:26 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1202 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

It unlikely that the disadvantage of having to pay full time costs for a limited occupancy is going to be highlighted by anyone as a selling point.

The 90/180 day rule has always existed but never enforced until BREXIT (of our own making). At the moment PAYG is probably the least risky option for non residents.



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31 May 2022 1:39 PM by ayrez Star rating in La Marina Oasis. 379 posts Send private message

Surely short term rentals will be much more expensive than €500 per month. 
 





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31 May 2022 5:30 PM by acer Star rating. 1492 posts Send private message

Depends on where the place is, how many beds, the facilities and lease duration is etc, but €500 pcm exclusive of costs (community, electric, water etc) is quite common place where I am in Murcia.



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31 May 2022 5:53 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1202 posts Send private message

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I think we are referring to short term holiday rental contracts and not long term lease agreements.

€500 pcm for a holiday rental would be at the bottom of the barrel.



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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01 Jun 2022 1:02 PM by acer Star rating. 1492 posts Send private message

Yes quite right Kavanagh, potentially a considerable difference. 

I think ob123 is not making a fair comparison.  I've just returned from a couple of weeks in Dubrovnik, a fabulous city, (outside the Schengen area) but I'm now recovering from the experience.  It's all the peripheral hassle that you get when you stay somewhere as a guest or tenant, that affects the enjoyment of the break.

In particular we had to take 2 large suitcases, mainly for clothes, plus laptops which we wouldn't need in Spain - it's already there.  You forget how nice it is travelling light - not needing hours to pack and lug large suitcases around and  then finally returning with a mountain of washing and other jobs to do.  The fact that one suitcase was written off in transit was an additional unexpected hassle that would not have occurred in a trip to the place we own in Spain.


 



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Don't argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.



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02 Jun 2022 10:32 AM by windtalker Star rating. 1868 posts Send private message

I am not to sure what part of Spain ob123 has his apartment in...but some of the figures on the upkeep sound very expensive..Both myself and my son have 2 bedroom Villas on gated communities with swimming pools and community grounds my yearly outlay comes to under €1,000 per year .my sons 2 bedroom Villa on another gated community pays under €1,000 per year for the upkeep we are both none residents ... buying a property in Spain should not be looked at as a investment as it would probably take you at least ten years to get your original outlay back... especially when you take the buying and selling fee's of approximately 20% in to  consideration ..in layman's terms if you bought a property for €100,000 and decided to sell it you are looking at clearing €120,000 just to get your original outlay back.





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02 Jun 2022 11:28 AM by ob123 Star rating in Southern Ireland. 190 posts Send private message

My apartment is in Torrevieja in the Costa Blanca, you see the cost's I outlined below, the non redidencial tax alone is €300 and the local Suma which is a kind of council tax is €250 so you figures don't add up at all, some owners don't pay them taxes, but when ever they sell, the debth is attached on to the deeds so the no escape and then they will charge 30% extra on top of the fees owed, so you can't win, ours is a 2 bed Apartment on a gated community, what are your community fees, windtaker, 





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02 Jun 2022 11:55 AM by windtalker Star rating. 1868 posts Send private message

Hi ob123 my Villa is in Los Balcones a suburb of Torrevieja my community fee's are €16 per month..my son has a Villa on another gated community also in Los Balcones and pay's €21 per month community fee's he pays more as his community has two pools and bigger community gardens...all the other upkeep charges like yearly water meter/ electric meter rental rubbish Tax/ none Residents Tax and so forth will be the same..so basically the only difference should be the community fee's you are paying ... your internet of €400 per year is also expensive I pay €110 per year with Teletec broadband  you pay €90 for the small dish to be installed and then you have a choice of taking out one of the two contracts on offer the contract I have is for the yearly connection that comes to €110 per year ..my son has the same system but has opted for the pay as you use opinion..this comes to €10 per week he just sends Teletec a email prior to arrival and they turn the Net on for him...I think in your original post you factored in the amount of water and electric you use when you should have only taken into account the yearly meter rental.

 


 

 


 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 6/2/2022.



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02 Jun 2022 12:49 PM by ob123 Star rating in Southern Ireland. 190 posts Send private message

Hi Windtalker our Community fees are €600 a Year because we have 2 lifts in the property, and in Spanish law you must have a phone line connected so we are paying rent for them as well, then the cleaners come everyweek the place is spotless but the price is also high, 





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02 Jun 2022 1:21 PM by windtalker Star rating. 1868 posts Send private message

As for your yearly Spanish running cost of €2,400 ..if you take into consideration how much it costs in site fee's for a caravan/ mobile home in the UK.. where I come from we have two mobile holiday site's and they are both around £6,000  for 10 months ... with gas electric and water on top..so your Spanish apartment is cheap in comparison.

 

 


 


 

 


 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 6/2/2022.



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02 Jun 2022 4:44 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1202 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

What have your site fees for your caravan in Grimsby got to do with the pros and cons of buy or rent a holiday apartment in Spain? What next, cave rental costs in Afghanistan. 



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There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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02 Jun 2022 5:59 PM by ob123 Star rating in Southern Ireland. 190 posts Send private message

Hi Windtalker I think you are ripped off with those costs for the mobile homes, and like here in Ireland rain is never far away, anyway I still think renting is a better option if you are satisfied with 3 Months in paradise, I also bought a new car in Spain in 2011 drove it back to Ireland a few times, but the first one I bought was cut and shut, and the second one was clocked so I said enough is enough.... the price was €32,000 in Ireland in Spain €20,000 so that's not bad. now it's still worth €9,000 so that was a good deal. the car tax only €50 and fully comp insurance can drive anywhere in Europe.





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02 Jun 2022 9:45 PM by windtalker Star rating. 1868 posts Send private message

Kavana  I was giving ..ob123 a comparison between my home town in Wale's ..I didn't mention Grimsby... surly you understood that. But incase you didn't it's cheaper to have a holiday home on the Costa's ...than Wales ...my Brother-in-law has just paid £125,000 for a so called mobile home in Porthcawl sth Wales with a life expectancy of 25 years on the site...his site fee's for 10 months use per year are £6,000 per year...but you might be able to get a better deal in Grimsby...LOL.

 

 


 


This message was last edited by windtalker on 6/2/2022.



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02 Jun 2022 11:10 PM by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 1202 posts Send private message

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Oh dear Windy, the thread subject is about the pros and cons of those wishing to holiday in Spain on a regular basis (rent vs. ownership). It is not about worldwide comparisons and your brother in laws mobile home in forever peeing down Wales or your caravan in Grimsby.

If you are bored please start your own threads and stop disrupting others.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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03 Jun 2022 7:23 AM by windtalker Star rating. 1868 posts Send private message

Kavana it's all down to personal choice..the op said you can rent for €500 per month..in Spain this is possible to do for a long term rental in a none holiday type location  .but for short term holiday rentals you are looking at around €500 per week.for a 2 bed apartment in a holiday location.....even in Wale's you will pay £1,000 per week for a mobile home in Treco Bay  Porthcawl ..so long term holiday home ownership in Spain has worked out great for me and my family for the last 17 years..and as I said in a previous post my son has now bought a 2 Bed Villa on a gated community for himself and his  family to enjoy as it definitely works out cheaper in the long run owning a property in Spain as apposed to renting..

Or dare I say it without having my nose bit off buying a mobile home in any part of the UK..and while we are on the subject of mobile homes..have you bothered to look at what the purchase price and yearly ground rent is in Spain.. it's really not that much different to Wale's that pisses down with rain most of the time as you said..but I live in Wale's and know it really doesn't...as for clocked  cut and shut cars on the second hand market in Spain I wouldn't know as I always buy brand new cars that I changed every 3 years regardless.. have a nice day.

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This message was last edited by windtalker on 6/3/2022.



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03 Jun 2022 2:29 PM by ob123 Star rating in Southern Ireland. 190 posts Send private message

Hi Windtalker, I would never buy a Mobile Home because it 's life span is short enough,  bricks and morter is a better option I think, but one of my friends rent's a place near La Zenia for 3 Months, March, April, and May, he think it's great value at €500 a Month and he can walk away no cleaning and no problems like things breaking, my water heater went last Week, the element in the cooker a Month ago and it all cost's money, he told me if I got €65,000 for my place that would cover a lot of rent for the rest of my life. I bought the place in 2001 was lucky enough I had loan, now there would be no capitol gains tax as I would be selling at a loss........





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