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24 Nov 2020 18:06 by RobertG Star rating. 1 posts Send private message

My Wife and I paid a large deposit to a developer in Estepona in Spain who, after 1 year beyond our promised completion date failed to deliver. We took them to Court and won the case and their appeal. The developer declared himself to be bankrupt. Having pursued our case for another 10 years, we were put in touch with CostaLuz lawyers.

This firm restored our faith in justice and they were successful in recovering all of our money along with interest. We cannot recommend them too highly.

R. and B. S.  England





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25 Nov 2020 11:04 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9327 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Thanks, Robert. It is a joy to see you so satisfied, indeed, it is the most valuable side of the business.

Yes, we do try hard to find new solutions to our clients. At present and in order to meet the deadline of December 28th, we are implementing a formula for those who bought through Ocean View/Palmera and never got a refund or got a partial refund of just the money that was paid to the builder/spanish developer.

We are also implementing formulas for those owning illegal properties in Spain and can ask the involved banks for a refund of all paid since day one: a good deal as they would be able to buy same kind of property and obtain a good extra amount of money for retirement, given current market prices.

These are still the consequences of the bubble that financial system created so now.... they are receiving some unpleasant- non- benefits ;)

People at the center!



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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25 Nov 2020 11:09 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9327 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Thanks, Robert. It is a joy to see you so satisfied, indeed, it is the most valuable side of the business.

Yes, we do try hard to find new solutions to our clients. At present and in order to meet the deadline of December 28th, we are implementing a formula for those who bought through Ocean View/Palmera and never got a refund or got a partial refund of just the money that was paid to the builder/spanish developer.

We are also implementing formulas for those owning illegal properties in Spain and can ask the involved banks for a refund of all paid since day one: a good deal as they would be able to buy same kind of property and obtain a good extra amount of money for retirement, given current market prices.

These are still the consequences of the bubble that financial system created so now.... they are receiving some unpleasant- non- benefits ;)

People at the center!



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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25 Nov 2020 12:26 by baz1946 Star rating. 2205 posts Send private message

Can't help thinking surely better to buy something that you can see, feel and touch.

 


This message was last edited by baz1946 on 25/11/2020.



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26 Nov 2020 11:13 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 992 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

That is true baz, but what motivated Brits to come to a foreign country where they were clueless about consumer protection and the legal justice system and hand over €1,000s to persons/developers they did not know on the strength of a brochure and promise.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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26 Nov 2020 12:30 by baz1946 Star rating. 2205 posts Send private message

Probably because Kavanagh not enough second hand houses for sale in Spainsurprise





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29 Nov 2020 11:28 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Yes Kavanagh many purchasers were oblivious to the SCALE of greed, corruption, banking non compliance and abuse, hypocrisy, hidden agendas, manipulative protectionist ploys, lack of regulatory structures and effective regulatory bodies, lack of accountability transparency and ethical standards, non provision of trusted property ombudsman to protect and advise consumers, major under resourcing of court and justice systems that compromised the rule of law! The shocking list sadly acts as a stark reminder of the subsequent risks associated with offplan purchase in Spain.

 

But the major aspect that some fail to recognise in this sorry saga of events is the fact that EXISTING Bank Guarantee law was not a “promise” as you infer, but a LAW in place from the outset when people were purchasing offplan property in the early 2000s, which ironically was established to  protect purchasers ( indeed it incentivised purchasers ) and this law has been consistently and vigorously challenged by the Banks during the last two decades as they denied their legal responsibilities ( proliferating appeal after appeal), until such time as Supreme Court rulings finally affirmed legal doctrine acting as clarification of law. ( And still some battles continue for which we can but hope that the SC stand firm and supportive of good law intended to protect).

 

The process has been costly for all too many innocent purchasers and immensely time consuming, and during this period it has increasingly depended upon the competency of law firms to keep abreast of all the many legal tactics employed by the banks and ensuing supportive case law. 

 

Bottom line, during the last two decades no one should under estimate the impact from the Banks’  manipulative tactics as they consistently challenged existing protective law which not only significantly compromised innocent purchasers in that process, but also overloaded the system of justice. 

But also no one should underestimate the significance of ultimately making Banks accountable and how brave pioneering and ongoing endeavours have exposed all manner of uncomfortable realities which hopefully will be addressed to the benefit of all going forward. 

 

This has been a David and Goliath episode where innocents have remarkably taken on the power of the Banks and exposed all manner of abusive and non compliant behaviour, and for that both innocent purchasers and successful legal teams alike deserve rightful respect and acknowledgement.





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29 Nov 2020 13:52 by sandra Star rating in . 810 posts Send private message

sandra´s avatar

As usual Ads has most eloquently described ; the status quo that existed during the so called Spanish Property Boom and, the ongoing problems of trying to retrieve your deposits and achieve some form of justice by the way of adequate interest,compensation and full reimbursement of all legal fees.
 This all being the situation we found ourselves in in 2008 after purchasing an off plan property in 2003.

After twelve years, we are still awaiting justice. The courts are so slow and even the outcome of our most recent, and eagerly awaited, court case (which took place on the 20th October) has been delayed.  It is frustrating and becomes

a dilemma regarding who and what to believe when  the lawyer, who initially welcomed us with open arms, now seems irritated by our rare  by straight forward request for information about the result of the case.

Hopefully, it will all be settled one day soon and the successes we read about on Eye on Spain wil one day be ours.

 

 


This message was last edited by sandra on 29/11/2020.

_______________________

  

 

 

 

 




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29 Nov 2020 16:43 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 992 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

Do you believe even today it is safe to hand over a deposit to an agent, builder, developer or a bank?

Sandra thinks to wait 12 years for possible justice is too long. Perhaps cases are now being fast tracked.



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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30 Nov 2020 09:38 by baz1946 Star rating. 2205 posts Send private message

For many past years now the media, newspapers, TV, you name it have been reporting on how the Spanish legal system works, or rather doesn't, rightly or wrongly they have had a field day in downing Spain and it's legal system where house buying is concerned, anyone who has considered buying in Spain cannot say they haven't heard of the pitfalls, even a whole TV show on Campersol and house's falling down followed up by numerous debates on the subject, not forgetting  the land grab.

Laws on this that and the other mean nothing, if you live in England you know that, and more so with any country you know frig all about.

Most people wont even buy a second hand cheap as chips car from around the corner without seeing it, yet hand over massive sums of money on the basis of, as said, A picture, bugger of back home, then wonder why the large deposit  money went AWOL.

It's said 'A fool and their money are easily parted' and in the next breath it's said 'How does the fool get that amount in the first place'.

 

 





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30 Nov 2020 10:54 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

It's important not to conflate and confuse separate issues here.

Anyone who fails to recognise or fails to respect a protective GUARANTEE law in place from the outset to safeguard deposited monies with inalienable rights is on a very slippery slope to undermining the rule of law, let alone undermining trust in a Banking system. To turn blind eyes to such undermines the basis upon which trust and respect are established.

Likewise, anyone who chooses to ignore the wider aspects to the rule of law that identifies the need to adequately resource a justice system, to remain sufficiently independent, etc, runs the risk of undermining the ability to ensure justice prevails.

Its the basis upon which any civilised society can effectively and fairly function, but developing and nurturing trust and respect, lies at the heart of this. Not easy by any means!





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30 Nov 2020 13:33 by baz1946 Star rating. 2205 posts Send private message

Well if it takes anything up to twelve years to get your deposit and monies back their is no law or guarantee, but apart from all this folk will still pay money for something that isn't their....Pig in a Poke for sure.





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30 Nov 2020 15:46 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Of course for all those subjected to extraordinary delays of this order that undermines timely justice, is considered abhorrent ( and for that matter all exploitative behaviour that demonstrates bad intent on the part of the Banks that is in contradiction of consumer law) . But that is the point.
The rule of law demands that adequate resources be made available, with all due regard to administering and enforcement procedures to ensure justice prevails in a timely and fair manner. 
Hence the call for adherence to the rule of law in Spain to the benefit of ALL.

It goes without saying that so long as this exposed failure continues, that the majority of all purchasers, and not just those purchasing offplan, need to remain acutely aware of the call for "buyer beware".

There are sadly many others currently residing on developments, or who have mortgages, who have also been exposed to Bank's exploitative behaviour that challenges consumer law....

But having said that, it does not detract from supporting all those currently exposed to, and effectively defending interests  under this current scenario, and striving for effective solutions and fair accountability.


This message was last edited by ads on 30/11/2020.



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30 Nov 2020 18:48 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9327 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

I wish we lawyers could do more to better off the speed of Courts. We report every Court under delay but, at the end....it depends on the Government obviously.

Anyhow, we welcome cristicism as this prompt us to think and think again on new ways to improve the status quo

Cheers

M



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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30 Nov 2020 21:55 by ads Star rating. 4021 posts Send private message

Dear Maria,

The only aspect that Banks appear to respond to is when they are made sufficiently financially accountable for their behaviour and disrespect of law in place to protect. At present it would appear that the final financial penalty is insufficient to act as EFFECTIVE deterrent against their continuing exploitative behaviour.

In the case of Ley 57/68 claims, costs are not always fully recoverable and interest is backdated but is not continued to the point of final rulings, which acts as little disincentive to continue with their ploys and "play the system of delays" and significantly overload the courts and justice system in that process.

The problem that many appear to have been exposed to is the way that banks, in full knowledge of SC rulings that took  years to achieve, continued to proliferate appeals which undermined courts ability to “cope” under the interim growing pressure, continuing to suggest elements of doubt until such time as SC doctrine was fully established ( requiring 2 SC rulings on the exact same point of law).
 

So final clarification of law (SC doctrine) with regard to return of principle monies took years to achieve following major proliferation of appeals, but then to witness a repeat of this purposeful "tactic " with regard to gaining clarification of correctly backdated interest became highly questionable. And all without recognition of specialised courts to fast track and assist, as called for by Keith Rule all too many years ago! 

Likewise to witness Bank submission of cassation appeal and then at the last minute withdraw their submission ( the detail of which was highly questionable from the outset) , again in full knowledge of how this significant delay subsequently compromised the innocent claimant, let alone the impact on those who follow, without “adequate” financial additional penalty to deter such exploitative behaviour I.e. in full recognition of bad intent, just beggars belief.

The “ relative “ monies involved to make Banks accountable are but small fry (comparatively small) to the Banks, but are significant to individual innocent claimants when they are left waiting in many cases a decade and a half for justice and rightful retrieval of all their monies, including interest and costs, when deposited monies ironically were supposedly protected from the outset under INALIENABLE rights according to law.

The Bank of Spain does not appear to have acted in any responsible way to act as regulator to ensure that their Banks remained compliant with law in place to protect, nor ensure that they adhere to their so called “ mission statements”, that to the common man gives the false impression upon reading the statements that they are to be trusted and are adhering to compliant rules. 

It’s hypocrisy of the highest order, and has done untold damage to trust  within the Spanish real estate industry. 

But the saddest aspect of all is that Banks have been allowed to undermine trust in the justice system itself.

The whole scenario needs review from a much higher perspective in terms of adequate financial penalties where innocents are no longer scapegoated in this scenario, and good law firms AND clients alike can reclaim trust both in one another and the whole sorry system.

The Banks should never be allowed to divide and rule in this manner where again they exploited vulnerabilities with hidden agendas by working with law firms who it transpired were also duped ( or in some cases transpired to be knowingly complicit) in their failures to provide legal BGs  ( non independence) as Banks purposefully turned blind eyes to such essential adherence to BG law with full adherence to safeguarding of deposited monies.

Their manipulative behaviour has done untold damage to trust which will sadly take years to overcome unless more is done to swiftly call for the Bank of Spain to act as effective regulator and the Government provide adequate resources in the interim, in the form of specialised courts for competent trusted and effective fast tracking of outstanding claims with timely  judicial enforcement.

In the interim, thank you for your patience to listen, to continue to educate, and willingness to seek out ways to improve the status quo. I hope and trust that those who have problems re communicating will also gain some understanding of the complex and highly procedural elements to achieve justice under the status quo, which accounts for all too many of the significant background delays associated with rightful  recovery of all of their entitled monies.

Stay safe and strong and good luck with all your continuing endeavours

Best regards.





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01 Dec 2020 09:34 by baz1946 Star rating. 2205 posts Send private message

it’s hypocrisy of the highest order, and has done untold damage to trust  within the Spanish real estate industry. 

ads, not really, because it's still going on, people are still buying, perhaps only up to this virus business maybe, all the talk in the world will never save some from their own stupidity.

You can give advice to many...Getting them to take notice of it is another thing. 





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01 Dec 2020 11:36 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9327 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Dear Maria,

The only aspect that Banks appear to respond to is when they are made sufficiently financially accountable for their behaviour and disrespect of law in place to protect. That´s good. Sign of acceptable democracy system working. At present it would appear that the final financial penalty is insufficient to act as EFFECTIVE deterrent against their continuing exploitative behaviour.

In the case of Ley 57/68 claims, costs are not always fully recoverable and interest is backdated but is not continued to the point of final rulings, which acts as little disincentive to continue with their ploys and "play the system of delays" and significantly overload the courts and justice system in that process. I agree with you. Interests and costs are the pain for them. If those start being lowered down, they lose that punitve and reformative effect. Also, I was thinking some days ago: lawyers who intervned in conveyancing processes: stronger sanctions are needed. A big deal of the problem falls into the lack of independence of them. It is true that punishing the banks have been a healthy medicine for the off plan system in the future but.... that work in regards to lawyers is still to be done. We, lawyers in Spain--- I dare  to say--- are too comfortable in the lack of control and sanctions by our regulatory bodies. An individual certificate of Guarantee would have refurned moeny back to clients since day one.

The problem that many appear to have been exposed to is the way that banks, in full knowledge of SC rulings that took  years to achieve, continued to proliferate appeals which undermined courts ability to “cope” under the interim growing pressure, continuing to suggest elements of doubt until such time as SC doctrine was fully established ( requiring 2 SC rulings on the exact same point of law). Yes, there is still debatable angles and points that Banks fight: Specially now, these two: Consumer Law doctrine and application to Law 57/68 cases and extent of depositor Bank´s liabilities- when is the moment a bank receiving off plan amounts start being liable. I am personally not too happy with any of the two approaches which at the moment are being taken by the Supreme Court on these. 
 

So final clarification of law (SC doctrine) with regard to return of principle monies took years to achieve following major proliferation of appeals, but then to witness a repeat of this purposeful "tactic " with regard to gaining clarification of correctly backdated interest became highly questionable. And all without recognition of specialised courts to fast track and assist, as called for by Keith Rule all too many years ago! Keith keeps being there in the fight.  Now against " hidden developers"  ( OVP, Palmera Properties) and for illegal properties to be dealt by Law 57/68 doctrine.

Likewise to witness Bank submission of cassation appeal and then at the last minute withdraw their submission ( the detail of which was highly questionable from the outset) , again in full knowledge of how this significant delay subsequently compromised the innocent claimant, let alone the impact on those who follow, without “adequate” financial additional penalty to deter such exploitative behaviour I.e. in full recognition of bad intent, just beggars belief. Totally true.

The “ relative “ monies involved to make Banks accountable are but small fry (comparatively small) to the Banks, but are significant to individual innocent claimants when they are left waiting in many cases a decade and a half for justice and rightful retrieval of all their monies, including interest and costs, when deposited monies ironically were supposedly protected from the outset under INALIENABLE rights according to law.

The Bank of Spain does not appear to have acted in any responsible way to act as regulator to ensure that their Banks remained compliant with law in place to protect, nor ensure that they adhere to their so called “ mission statements”, that to the common man gives the false impression upon reading the statements that they are to be trusted and are adhering to compliant rules. Law 57/68 has been reviewed but that´s it. Banks and Lawyers regulatory bodies should be encouraged to lose shyness.

It’s hypocrisy of the highest order, and has done untold damage to trust  within the Spanish real estate industry. 

But the saddest aspect of all is that Banks have been allowed to undermine trust in the justice system itself. In my opinion, there is a new current in Law and a new generation of Lawyers much involved in controlling and punishing banks.

The whole scenario needs review from a much higher perspective in terms of adequate financial penalties where innocents are no longer scapegoated in this scenario, and good law firms AND clients alike can reclaim trust both in one another and the whole sorry system. Totally agree, Ads.

The Banks should never be allowed to divide and rule in this manner where again they exploited vulnerabilities with hidden agendas by working with law firms who it transpired were also duped ( or in some cases transpired to be knowingly complicit) in their failures to provide legal BGs  ( non independence) as Banks purposefully turned blind eyes to such essential adherence to BG law with full adherence to safeguarding of deposited monies. Totally agree, Ads. Wrong, illegal, corrupt system.

Their manipulative behaviour has done untold damage to trust which will sadly take years to overcome unless more is done to swiftly call for the Bank of Spain to act as effective regulator and the Government provide adequate resources in the interim, in the form of specialised courts for competent trusted and effective fast tracking of outstanding claims with timely  judicial enforcement. My wonder is if, aparto to those of us who are still currently involved in solutions to the problems, there is a real interest there.

In the interim, thank you for your patience to listen, to continue to educate, and willingness to seek out ways to improve the status quo. I hope and trust that those who have problems re communicating will also gain some understanding of the complex and highly procedural elements to achieve justice under the status quo, which accounts for all too many of the significant background delays associated with rightful  recovery of all of their entitled monies. Thanks.

Stay safe and strong and good luck with all your continuing endeavours. Likewise. It seems we are reaching the end of the tunnel with COVID.

Best regards.



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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01 Dec 2020 13:05 by Kavanagh Star rating in Oil Drum Lane Newcas.... 992 posts Send private message

Kavanagh´s avatar

There is no interest or will to change anything and the key question is why?



_______________________
There is enough in the world for everyone, but not enough for the greedy!



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01 Dec 2020 13:46 by baz1946 Star rating. 2205 posts Send private message

I wonder as to how many of Spains bank managers and legal people are builders,  and / or have very strong connections to them so best not to stall the gravy train?





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