Spanish legal fees - taken all of our Interest on deposit

Hi Fazarelli ... I don't want to debate this further other than to say ... as previously ... 30% amounts to "theft" from the poor unsuspecting client. However just to give the comment a Caveat it really depends on how much you are "chasing". For say 20 grand it is not excessive considering Court costs but then THESE SHOULD BE clawed back from the Bank in costs in the event of a win; the reverse applies of course if you loose!!!!! All I can say when chasing 200 grand I would NEVER agree to it.

With regard to the interest my advice has been different ... 6% and compound but then I AM NOT A LAWYER!

Interests, by Law and according to Case Law is not compounded and is the legal rate since 1999.

OK ... not the information I have been given but never mind! Either way the Interest is for the Plaintiff and NOT the Lawyers. The COStS are for the Lawyer.

You seemed pretty sure of yourself before. It's been stated on here dozens of times that it's not compound interest, and it's usually around 4%.

I agree about the costs and interests thing. I don't think this has been discussed on here, as no one seems to want to share the finer details. Btw, what's to stop my solicitor from charging costs of, say, 20k, to offset the client's 30%?

Hi again Fazarelli ... look, as i have stated I am NOT a Lawyer and so am only as good as the information another competant Lawyer might give so ... until told otherwise ... 6% compound! My real hatred is for those who try to rape poor defenceless "ex-pats" of 30% of the monies which are really theirs by right. It is disgusting and imoral and without doub NOT what the Law intended! Then again MAYBE that is the price one has to pay for a "no win no fee" arrangement. If you want to PM me and give me your number I will call you and SUGGEST what you could do. In the meantime I will not respond or debate further this whole "interest saga".  Regards Andrew

Thank you once again for the clarification re interests Maria. 

Could I ask some questions please from a wider perspective?

Are Banks ( via Ley57/68) currently being made fully accountable in judicial rulings for ALL costs associated with enforcement of this law, in recognition of Banks' non compliance and abusive and compromising malpractices?

Was the interest component associated with this law intended to act as deterrent (to prevent the Banks proliferating and, where applicable, unnecessarily abusing the appeal process and thereby obstructing the rule of law), as opposed to a compensatory route for the client to reclaim any unrecoverable costs? I'm thinking of the instances where Supreme Court rulings have already been clarified in terms of interest back dated to date of deposit, and yet the Banks still continue to ignore such rulings.

The bottom line is we should all never lose sight of the need for correct and consistent enforcement of a law in Spain intended to FULLY protect against non compliance and manipulative and obstructive behaviour by the Banks.

But also we should never lose sight of the need for adequate regulatory structures ( via the Bar Associations?) to be in  a place to ensure that legal professionals act with all due diligence and competence expected of their professional status. 

It appears that the latter has some way to progress if those law firms who continue to compromise clients, by failing to demonstrate due competence and diligence, fail to profer up-to-date advice and make false promises and claims in that process, are to be made equally accountable.

We should all, good law firms and clients alike, be striving as one to ensure a productive outcome with regard to all of the above.

Andrew, 

With all respect, as always, and with the intention of this being informative to everyone, according to what the spirit of EOS forums is and has always been.

Agreements between lawyer and client are always legal if they respect the minimums established by Law Society.

If you agree on paying nothing and then give all interests and costs to lawyer, this amount is in the region of 40%of all amounts recovered if

(1) full period of legal interests are imposed against the Bank--- as it is being the case generally, but can vary in the future as it is happening in Malaga, for instance---- and

(2) legal costs are also imposed against the bank too, 

You can choose any other formulas, with or without upfront fees, if agreed with lawyer and always respecting minimums of the Bar association.  

Andrew,

The 30% is regardless of no win no fee or normal claim. EVERYONE is charging 25-30%.

Maria,

So, when the total is added up at the end, like this:

1. Deposit, say, 100k

2. Interest, say, 40k over ten years

3. Costs, say, 10k

Total is 150k. Is 30% of that 45k, leaving 105k for the claimant? OR,  is it 30% of 140k = 42k, leaving 98+10=108k?

It doesn't seem to make a big difference. Either way, you get your money back plus a small profit (5-8k) BUT the exchange rate is more favourable, so You make an extra 20%b approx.

Hi Fazarelli ... Sorry WRONG! They are not and certainly not if you pay the costs as you go along. 25 - 30% amounts to extortion!!!!!!!!!!!! Also forget the ROE difference ... remember it could have gone the other way and then what! If PM me I and give me your number I will happily explain!

I've never heard of solicitors charging less than perhaps 20%.

Show me a solicitor who does. I don't think 25% is crazy, especially with no up front cost risks. At the end of the day, i will be making about 20k out of the agreement, so I'm happy.

As I have said ... "private message" me with your phone number and i will tell you!

Fazarelli:

In our offer for no initial upfront is 30% of all recovered amounts, including costs: in your example would 30% of 150k.

As said it is slightly highest than minimums stablished by Bar Association ( which are between 20%-25% depending on Province of litigation). Reason of this is that we are funding 1,2,3 years of judicial work ( all judicial writings necessary and appearance in Courts), daily legal research of Case Law to be always fully updated for your best defence, daily clients care and  administration costs.

Our service and results has a value which is the fruit of the work of around 10 people during the last 10 years, pioneering and opening field for many buyers and lawyers who are also now, legitimately, taking this course of action.

We can prove it. As a little show , check our blog here at EyeOn Spain:

https://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/2452/legal-tip-166-no-bank-guarantee-action-against-the-bank.aspx

https://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/2500/legal-tip-174-those-illegal-bank-guarantees.aspx

https://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/2558/legal-tip-187-banks-breached-law-5768.aspx

Or our won cases on our website:

https://www.costaluzlawyers.es/2017/01/developments-developers-won-cases/

And recent ones from January 2017 in our EOS blog:

https://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/17656/legal-tip-1440-won-cases-by-costaluz-decastro-so-far-in-2017.aspx

And our two newest ones from last week:

https://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/17667/legal-tip-1441-two-new-won-cases-this-week.aspx

You can also see our published articles in Spain Law Review Legal Today, since 2009 here:

http://www.legaltoday.com/colaboradores/de-castro?offset=30

And articles published by the Consumers Law Center of University of Castilla- La Mancha, here:

http://blog.uclm.es/cesco/files/2016/11/Ilegalidades-urbanisticas.pdf

http://blog.uclm.es/cesco/files/2016/10/Ley-57-68-y-contravenciones-urbanisticas-.pdf

Maria,

Yes, i know what you've achieved and the ground breaking work that you and Keith have done, and we are all grateful for that.

The offer i had was 4.5k up front, then 4.5k for each appeal etc after that. PLUS 30% of the final judgement ( Inc costs and interest).

Fazarelli:

That was possibly before we started offering the service with no upfront fees among other options, quite recently and due to market competition.

Hi All,

Back in 2006 I made the mistake of trusting an English couple (the Cleggs), who introduced me to the first solicitor I ever used in Spain myself. The conveyancing solicitors were associated with Andalucian Dream Homes, so their loyalty wasn't to me, their paying customer...it was wholly to the Estate Agent, which kept sending more clients that, like myself, were not au fait with Spanish Law. 

The conveyancing solicitors asked for money upfront for their fees as well as the 30% deposits. At that point in time, I expected the solicitors to look after my interests and do ALL the due diligence. I simply sent my money across from the UK using a foreign exchange company. The Estate Agents made me aware of the 'Bank Guarantee' and obviously made it sound very simple to implement a claim!

Anyway, the conveyancing solicitors made 2 fatal errors that have affected my life

1) they received one bank guarantee which I did not see until 2006 (paid deposit in September 2004) when the file was transferred to the first solicitor I was 'introduced to' in Alicante provence. The IVA of almost 6k Euro was not included - consquencially I was unable to claim this off the bank despite the first instance against Sol Mijas Developers SL giving the full figure (including the IVA) as the refund amount.

2) the second contract was signed on my behalf whilst I was in the UK (I cannot recall signing a PoA) and despite their assurance that I had a bank guarantee this turned out to be a general one from Interlaken 2003 SL to Ocean View Homes - who were obviously flipping property (which I now know is illegal!). In 2006 the litigation lawyer did some priliminary work (2k Euros worth) and this fact was made known to me.

I felt that despite me attempting to be open and honest the solicitor kept referring to my 'wealth'. In 2008 I won the first instance against Sol Mijas Developers SL, who simply didn't pay anything. I had paid over 19900 Euro by then and am being chased for a further 20k or so Euro. As a widow and an adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse I now wonder how much lower my life can go as my survival mode is crumbling. For almost 5 years I have used a place called the Wellspring - a soup kitchen. The DWP don't understand anything about disassociation, which caused me to get myself into this quagmire. I want to become self employed but due to not having any financial support I cannot. I am simply stagnating.

The amazing thing is that both Sol Mijas Developers SL - http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2015/03/19/polish-al-capone-helped-launder-e200-million-through-costa-del-sol-media-companies/   and Interlaken 2003 SL have been investigated for fraud by the Spanish police yet nothing of this fact is mentioned in a civil court. See https://www.auraree.com/real-estate-news/fergo-aisa-goes-bankrupt/  and   http://www.expansion.com/empresas/inmobiliario/2016/03/21/56f02f6b268e3e62648b46a3.html

I am hoping that I can claim against the conveyancing solicitors indemnity insurance for the IVA and bank guarantee negligence, and am also considering what I can do to claim the original first instance court decision relating to interest and costs of the Sol Mijas Developers SL, as the original Alicante provence based solicitor refused to allow my present solicitor to deal with the matter. I wonder if we should primarily ask any solicitor working on our behalf, be they whatever nationality, for their registration documentation number to check them out?

BTW, when I employed a UK solicitor he ended up being closed down (Watsons Solicitors LLandudno) and still owes me £1230. (Just in case anyone knows his whereabouts!!)

Gill Malouf

A few questions spring to mind....

Has this lack of due diligence associated with your conveyancing lawyer etc been reported by your current lawyer to the Bar Association and if so what response did you receive? Could this assist your case in any way?

Is failure to include IVA a valid reason to prohibit you actioning a claim against the Bank? 

Might this be deemed an abusive purposeful ploy to prevent enactment of the Bank Guarantee?

Under what circumstances can a lawyer in Spain refuse to handover a case to another lawyer?

Would you be entitled to legal aid in Spain or do you have to be a resident to qualify?

Ok...although my present lawyer knows about the conveyancing negligence I have not been told to do anything now...it seems, and I may be wrong (I think there's miscommunication at present - possibly due to language translation etc?), nothing has been reported.

The matter of the iVA - I was awarded the amount on the bank guarantee certificate...and did not realise that the IVA should have been included (although the claim against the developer saw the court award me the full amount...but the dubious developer chose not to pay anything..not even the legal costs plus interest. So I am totally frustrated over this, as I haven't had a car for over a decade due to paying legal costs to various claims in Spain and the UK.

Aparently it is Spanish law that the existing solicitor has to agree to a client moving to a new solicitor, and of course this means I presume you have to pay all outstanding 'debts' in terms of litigation charges.

I have never explored the 'legal aid' option ...I do know many people put off claiming due to not having the funds to chase their deposits. I live in the UK.

I am fast loosing all faith in the Spanish legal system. I do not see why it should take 2 yrs for a court decision from the court hearing date. They are messing with minds and lives!

Gill Malouf

With regard to the excessive length of time for a court decision to be reached following your court hearing ( Interlaken case?) has your lawyer checked with the procurator to establish the reason for this delay? Some regions are experiencing major delays to achieve judicial rulings but it's always worth checking through the procurator in cases of excessive delay. 

Have you checked in writing if your lawyer has already received the interest and costs  (associated with the Sol Mijas case) and might they have used this to pay off any outstanding fees? Or has this been appealed against?

Whatever, you need to ask your lawyer (s) very specific questions to establish and clarify in writing exactly where you are up to in the legal procedures on each case, what has been achieved to date and what is still outstanding, and where applicable what is the reason for  any delays .

Good communication and clarification is all in this scenario.

Good luck.

ads, of course communication is the key! Regarding the ongoing Interlaken Bank Guarantee case, I have of course asked the solicitor about things. I believe that it is the solicitors responsibility when they inform you of the court hearing date the 'state of play' (potential/possible timescales) for receiving the court decision. The claim in question begain in 2010, after the previous solicitor did some pre-litigation communication with the (then) Bank Guarantee/ Sponsor Bank (which was billed at around 2k Euro). The court hearing against the developer turned out NOT to be an class action, despite the solicitor in question promoting class actions on the forums. The 20 minute court hearing last February was in Estepona - which is regarded, I now realise, as perhaps the slowest court in the whole of Spain. Also, there is concern now that several Spanish solicitors are misrepresenting the year of their 'court wins', as there is an Interlaken claim alledgedly won this year - but on further investigation a member of staff tells me (via email) that it was actually 'WON' in 2016. I now feel like I am being treated like an absolute fool.

My present solicitor took my Sol Mijas Developers Bank Guarantee claim, and went to the bank as the developer was not 'playing ball'. Last year, after I received capital, interest and costs from the bank claim, Sol Mijas Developers contacted my previous solicitor - wanting to pay funds to me - presumably the interest and costs associated with the first instance and their subsequent appeal. Because of the laws in Spain, despite me giving permission for my present solicitors to negotiate on my part, communication ceased. As I said before I paid the previous solicitor 19900 Euro and he still wants a further 20k Euro, but the court directed interest and legal costs came to around 28K in total.....no one wants to help now. I cannot pay what I haven't got. To that end I have asked my current solicitor to provide a bill so I can remortgage my UK home and be done with all things Spanish - I loved Spain but now it just brings me pain.  

I have visited (and this is expensive for me in my circumstances) my current solicitors quite often and even introduced new clients but all the things that happened to me must be hard for others to understand ie I also have experience of collusion amongst the estate agent, solicitor (with a PoA), and La Caixa Bank (Puerto de Mazarron) to commit mortgage fraud, but cannot get anyone to understand or take that claim on (this happened to most of the English that purchased apartments in the building. (The English estate agent was engaged, and later married the builders niece!)

I am always open and honest, maybe too much so. Perhaps this is why I get so very disappointed when I feel that no one really fully understands or appreciates that I am surviving and not enjoying life in my 60s. 

Gill

It's heartbreaking to read your story.

We had a run in with a bad lawyer with no results but now have a lawyer, in Guadalupe, who has achieved what we never thought we would. We got our deposit and expect our interest next week. It may have taken 11 years to get the money back but since joining GM legal experts, it has taken 2 years.

best wishes

Joyjo