Just Testing

Just looking at the shed again and not only is being selfish to RG and his neighbours  but he is creating a big security risk for the people on floor 1. Any body can climb onto the roof and get on the balcony from there.

I know that Don Juan has some easy places to climb onto balconys but we dont need to make more for the burgulars.

 

Andy

Davmunster I agree with you with regards to trying to sort this matter out amicably and that is precisely what we have been trying to do for the past couple of months. But the administrators do not appear to be taking any real interest in this matter or treating it seriously, at least that is the impression I have. I think this matter is just as important as location of air con units, sky dishes etc, etc, if not probably more so. It is all very well to say that the owner of the shed has invested a lot of money but then so has his neighbours in their respective property purchases, not to have to put up with inconsiderate selfish owners like him no matter how publicly spirited he may otherwise be. If what Max is saying is correct that the shed is illegal and bound by the private contract terms i.e. no tiling concreting, erection of walls roofs etc of the garden area, then surely this is not a matter to be decided by the community but should be already enforceable by the president / administrators for breach of private contract terms and in that context why have they so far failed to do anything? Andy I agree security is another reason to enforce removal of the shed and I believe the owner of the flat above are also not too happy about it for that exact reason.

RG you raise an interesting point. Their is nothing in the community rules about the private gardens. The clause you are refering to is in the contract between each of us individually and the developer so I'm not sure if the community is responsible for dealing with a breach of contract it is not a party to. However I agree with you that it is unsightly - just as are badly positioned aircon units and multiple satelite dishes. All I can say is that it will be discussed at the meeting and it will be the responsibility of the president, based on what is agreed at the meeting, to instruct the administrator on what action to take.

Hi Davmunster & Max

If possible, could one of you bring up the issue with the height of the fence (or rather lack of height ) around the terrace area on Block 1. Its a death trap. I can step over it. A child would fall to its death if they climbed over it. I don't mean raising it to a height that would make it look ugly, but just to a level that would be safe. On the legal side of things, what would happen if God forbid a child was seriously injured or killed. Would the parents try to make a claim against the owner of the apartment or against the community.

As for other issues, I would like the UK sky tv issue to be resolved, What are the different options available. I think to keep cost down we would be happy with the free to air channels, and watch any football at the pub. If agreed will the cost of the dishes be spread across the whole community. How long would they take to install. I take it, that if there was enough of us we could strike a deal with the set top boxes and cards. My mate is friends with the guy who has the satelite shop on the roundabout opposite the Gardenia Park Hotel, so I could probably have a word with him.

With the pools, we need to find out when we may get the licence, what times they can stay open, can they stay open for 6 months, May to September, how much it will cost for lifeguards, do we really need lifeguards with the pools being so small (I think the law needs to be checked very carefully on this one, it could save us all a lot of money. I have heard it could be the combined cubic area of all the pools which to me sounds ridiculous, surely its the size of each pool that matters for safety concerns.) how much it would cost to heat one of the pools annually, could the heated pool be used year round, if so would we still need a lifeguard there.

With the dog crap, my suggestion would be that if you see an owner letting their dog crap on the grass, shovel it up, find out which apartment they are in, and stick it through their letter box. Its a shame the letter boxes are not on the front door, so that when they walk into their apartment they step into their dogs crap like my little boy did.

Security. I think a good start would be to put decorative bars along the low walls. Mind you that would still not stop anyone getting into out block. All you have to do is reach your hand through the gate and press the button to let yourselves in. How thick are these people. The cost of moving it should be passed onto the developer.

Westport

 

Hi Westport, you are already allowed to raise the height of your fence so long as it is not higher than the existing high fencing. You are also allowed to put up that brown privacy fence like Sauna Man has or plant a hedge should you so wish.

Regarding Sky the key thing is to get community dishes - how they are paid for will depend on the budget. If it is agreed to instal them they can be done within weeks of the meeting. Set top boxes and cards will be our own responsibility so we can choose our own setup and supplier. I have no objection to a group deal but as different people will want different things - Sky+ multi room and even HD are available - it may be difficult.

On pools I broadly agree. On dog crap my heart is with you but my head says a less emotive response is required! On security I personally agree but the concensus position which I will represent at the meeting is for a little more than that. Mum's that want to bring the kids out while the Dad's are slaving away at home, single and older people all need to feel secure but what we can do will depend on what is posible within the existing budget.

Hi Westport,

I think you may have a problem getting the Spanish and other non-British nationals to agree to foot the bill for the Sky dish installation. Does anyone know if there is a corresponding Spanish satelite company, like Sky, whereby both types of dishes could be installed to create a compromise.

With regard to the pools, if what has been posted previously re. the need for lifeguards is correct, I think its crazy that Don Juan I will have to pay for lifeguards when litterally less than 100 yards away the pool belonging to Don Juan II, exactly the same size as the other pools, will not require lifeguard cover.

Good luck to you all at the AGM.

I also think the tunnel to the beach that we were all promised should be brought up at the meeting as I think it would be very handy for walking to the beach or restaurants at night in stead of walking up that hill and all those steps. Especially for all the people who don't rent cars or drive in Spain,

 I agree with Westport on putting ornate railing around the low walls as its a joke having locked gates when someone can just jump over the low walls, whats the point in that.

THE SHED? I have just looked at the picture of the shed. I have also seen the shed. AND If I was the person next door... as they say in Ireland...I WOULD NOT BE A HAPPY CAMPER. Because from the picture the shed lies directly between the next door neighbour and their view of the sea.

Also... I got a price for instalation of a satelite dish and reciever. It was a one of fee - with NO monthly subscription - for €299. It was a BIG dish. And if every apartment had one, it would look awful. But then again, the dish was a lot smaller than the SHED!

I agree about the ornate railings on the ground floor (entrance level) this should be the first security measure to be implemented as otherwise having the entrance gate is pointless. Alanleach yes that shed is much larger uglier and more obtrusive then any sky dish or air con unit! Therefore I think this matter should be made just as important if not more so then the air con units or sky dishes at the AGM. I mean can you imagine DJ full of sheds or other buildings in the private gardens of all garden apartments?

Hi jamesellisllb and others, it is not unusual for the community to provide Sky dishes. This is seen as an investment to prevent the eyesore of 1 per apartment and simplifies the ownership and who is responsible if there if there is a problem. I am hopeful this can be acheived.

It will not be possible to achieve everybody's ideal wish list at the meeting but I appreciate all the posts as they contain some good ideas and gives those of us who will be there an insight into people's different priorities.

As this is a main thread and read by many I think this is the proper place to raise an ethical question. People are reporting offenders against [sometimes yet to be established] community rules. No problem with the reporting but...

Is it ethical to name and shame people on an internet forum? I know the guy with the shed is easily identifiable and there is no way to discuss the problem without indirectly revealing who did that. He has to blame himself for that.

But in other cases I wonder. I see people specifically referring to specific persons who break perceived rules. Like dog owners who are named and shamed as they are also easily identifiable if you mention your block. Making specific statements about neighbours is something I would refrain from.

I can see that the 'naming and shaming' is mostly targeted at people who don't post here, but be aware that some Spanish people have excellent English reading skills and they are a bit offended by it. People have to read on the internet that their neighbours are complaining while in some instances the neighbours never told them about it in person.

There are several posters who have broken clear community rules. I know who they are but never name them, nor do I indicate where they live as I strongly believe in privacy. It's however difficult to cope with the fact that in some cases I receive actual complaints against people (and they include posters on this forum) from their neighbours for breaking rules. I never identify these posters and in the most general terms describe that you really are not allowed to:

- break open cabinets to get satellite dish installed (even though it wasn't you, but your supplier, you still are responsible)

- endanger the life of other people by having dishes on a roof without proper and secure bolting

- tile or deck your terrace as your neighbours start complaining and you're not allowed by contract

- put the ducting of the aircon at the side of the building (outside!) because 'you didn't like it inside because it would be ugly'

- install aircons so that the neighbours division wall is broken (yes that happened to a Spanish couple by a English installer)

etc, etc.

I think this is an important issue as we have to find a proper way to work around these issues. You can't blame RG for complaining about a large shed which of course identifies the offender but there is no way to avoid it. But is it a good idea that we all point fingers at specific neighbours? And if so would this be restricted to non posting neighbours or ....?

So far I have always refrained from easily identifiable remarks, but I think we should all think about how to cope with this issue.

This message was last edited by max! on 1/23/2008.

I'm 100% alligned with your statement, and can add that we all should treat others the way we would like them to treat us. I think that the most posting on this site comply with this statement, and maybe some posts have to be rephrased, knowing that we still mean what is said, it's more the way we express ourslefs when we are offended (me included).

I agree this site should not be used as a place to name, embarrass or victimise people. But if any Don Juan resident is acting in a highly anti - social manor or they are deliberately and obviously breaking the community rules without any thought for their neighbours then in my view they deserve to get talked about on this forum.

I think RG has been very patient over the shed issue. If I was in RG's position I would have taken a picture of the offending person and placed it in shared photos weeks ago!

Regards, Andy

This message was last edited by otterandy on 1/24/2008.

This message was last edited by otterandy on 1/24/2008.

I totally agree with Max's comments and it is for that exact reason that I have tried to keep the shed matter out of the public arena for so long but due to lack of positive interest and action from the administrators left me no choice but to bring the matter out and make others aware of the issue.

This message was last edited by max! on 1/24/2008.

Hi all,

The meeting is over and I’m really tired as it took 5 (yes five!) full hours. I’m also frustrated as we didn’t accomplish the goals we had. For those of you who never attended a community meeting in Spain I’ll try to explain why it took so long and why we booked hardly any results.

The Spanish idea of a community meeting is that is a cross between a formal meeting and a social gathering. The things we do on this forum: airing our views, go on an occasional rant, have some social interaction and sometimes try to decide on issues, etc. is all done at these meetings. So although five hours is extremely long (and very hard to sit through) I must admit that we spend at least that much time on EOS discussing, reading etc. about the meeting.

As the function is not only that of a proper decision making meeting with an agenda etc, but also a way for people to blow of some steam, build up some community feeling, get to know each other etc. there is no real presidency over the meeting. No one (except for me on some occasions) tries to lead the meeting or be efficient by cutting off repeated discussions.

The developer showed up again which was of course a major distraction as they struggled to get their points across. It made people angry so there were heated debates. The things they wanted this time were:

-          have us pay for the builders water which we refused, but they threatened to cut us of then so it took some time to discuss this (we are pretty sure that the town hall will order a reconnect as it’s a basic necessity)

-          oppose our move to have a proper inspection by a qualified architect of the whole complex and if necessary go to court to claim money to fix the current problems (like flooding garages, elevators full of water, drainage systems not working, damp wall’s etc, etc.)

We decided to hire a specialized lawyer/architect (not really translatable as this is a typical Spanish profession) who will make a proper report and file our demands directly to court as the chances were considered slim that Arrohabitatge would do it voluntarily. This leads to an extra expense (a one off) of 6200 Euros and all owners have to share their part depending on their ‘quota’. So you pay more if you have a larger property. The good thing is that we decided that there was no need for another meeting: the administrator is allowed to proceed and go to court if necessary to get the money to fix the structural problems.

The security measures taken at the meeting is that we will have a company who will be there after the normal working hours of our maintenance and cleaning company. So there will always be people on the site employed by the community. The current monthly contributions did allow for this service so it’s a good step in ensuring security. We discussed the difference between employing the current vigilante as a self-employed person versus hiring a proper company and decided on the latter proposal. We will however make sure that the current vigilante who most of us like (Tigo) will be employed by this company.

The security company will install special buttons all over the site which have to be pushed by their staff and these clicks will be registered in a computer log. This way we can be sure that they really make the rounds and don’t just sleep J

We will also have a ‘porter cabin’ installed for the security people, but also for the administrator. They intend to be on site at least once a week so that all neighbours have easy access to them and can discuss pressing issues with them.

The satellite dishes were on the agenda, but the problem was that the administrator got several quotations which were not comparable as there were large technical differences between the quotes. They didn’t know how to proceed and it was too difficult for the meeting to decide as most people didn’t understand the issues. Finally it’s decided that the ‘board’ meaning the president, vice-president and the members (vocals) got room to decide themselves with a limitation on the maximum budget allowed. I for one will push very hard to get this decided as soon as possible.

All the other issues which were discussed on EOS and brought to the attention of the administrator by me (in advance of the meeting of course) were never discussed. After five hours we just collectively collapsed.

There is more to report but this will do for now and David Munster will report as well tomorrow.

This message was last edited by max! on 1/26/2008.

Hi max thanks again for the post sorry i am not there to buy you a well needed drink irene/peter


This message was last edited by irenemontague on 1/26/2008.