Aircon

 Hi everyone, I am considering installing aircon to my 2 bed apartment at DJ and I have been recommended to AC Control SL who's vans you see on the paseo.  Does anyone know of any other good companies that they can recommend? I am looking for general advice on what type of system to have installed, for those that already have aircon installed both with std units on wall and hidden (in false ceiling) systems, which system is best? can you let me know roughly how much it will cost to have the work done? Any information would be gratefully received, please PM or email me at aotter@clara.co.uk

This message was last edited by otterandy on 12/02/2010.

Hi Andy,

You already know my ideas about it as we discussed it by mail. For other people however I have some tips:

 - don´t hire one of the cowboys (Brits without real experience and qualifications). They come and go, they have no access to the official distributor so they can´t order spare parts themselves. Last year we had to wait four weeks in August for a replacement part!  Poor renters and poor owner)

- go for a good brand. LG is reasonably good, but difficult with servicing, Mitsubishi is mid-range, Panasonic is very high quality and good value for money, Daikin is the ultimate top, but it comes at a price. The others are badly manufactured, energy inefficient cheap units. Don´t confuse Daitsu, a cheap unit, with Daikin. The cheaper ones also use more energy and are much noisier than the higher priced ones.

- if you hardly use it for heating and cooling you can buy a ´bomba de calor´ from most brands:a heat pump system. If you use it a lot invest in an inverter unit. They are a bit more expensive but save between 25 and 30% on energy. 

- you can sometimes do a good deal at one of the large shops but the selection is limited and you usually have to be able to speak Spanish as the installer who they arrange for a fee will rarely speak English.

- if you need multiple inside units it´s more energy efficient to have one outside unit instead of a separate one for each room. It saves space and noise as well.

For people with some technical knowledge (hi Andy) a picture of a replacement of the compressor by a local cowboy. You can see that the pipe is not bended, but almost broken and the soldering is a joke. The result is that the compressor (a costly item) is again defect because the pipe blocked the airflow. No warranty of course on repairs by cowboys and the original manufacturer´s warranty is now void.

We learned a lot in the years in Spain and now only work with companies who know what they are doing, have qualified engineers and direct access to the distributor. We are responsible for a lot of apartments where the aircon was already installed by cowboys and it keeps us busy to arrange proper repairs and offering new installations which follow the above guidelines..

Hi Andy,

If I may take this thread in a slightly different direction I'm wondering why you want air conditioning in the 1st place.

Even the best units make some noise, they are ugly and the large conduit that is required to cover the pipes and wires is even uglier. It also takes up space on your terrace and you have to close your doors to use it.

It would certainly be unpleasant to have no heating in the winter. We installed electric radiators\convectors with timers and different temperature settings. Others have gas, fan or convector heaters which are all effective.

Don Juan is well designed with the walls and windows largely protected from direct sun but it still gets pretty hot in the height of summer. Many neighbours have now installed ceiling fans - and everyone I have spoken to thinks they are great. Power is taken from the light switches and you can track the walls and ceiling (or use surface conduit). they are economical, silent and keep the mozzies away. Most ceiling fans have an integrated light which can be useful to supplement the wall lights. 

My experience of ceiling fans is all they do is move the hot air about.

Most of the time there is enough of a breeze that just leaving the doors open is fine and we hadn't used the airconditioning much but last August it was amazing how the breeze coming up from the sea died pretty much as soon as the sun went down and I was glad of the cool air!

 I have installed a lot of ceiling fans in bedrooms for clients and they are happy with them, but I disagree about the noise level. The good aircon units have a sleep mode which is hardly noticeable. It is a personal choice of course. We live with a ceiling fan in the master bedroom and aircon in the lounge, but I know people who find it unbearable to sleep in a room with just a ceiling fan. They want it cool instead of that slight breeze you create.

We do miss the heating in the master bedroom. In the end I would have preferred to have aircon there as well for the winter. If properly installed there is hardly any trunking needed and the ducting can be hidden. The internal aircon units can be built so that you only have a small vent in the wall, not a unit which extends into the room. That way they take a lot less space than a heater.

Cost wise it´s more energy efficient to use ceiling fans, but in the winter you earn it back if you have a good inverter aircon unit as they are quite economical.

To save on the outside space you just go for one external unit feeding multiple vents. 

It´s all a matter of choice but this are my considerations and these of my clients.

Max.

 And then of course the problem of the bathroom. I find it way too cold so adjusted my electricity outlet and mounted a cheap heater. Much more comfortable if you want to take a bath in the winter. While I was busy I installed five ceiling lights so that I can actually read a book in the bath. Now find a way to enlarge it. It seems to be made for very short persons....

Max

 Hi Andy, You already have my email regarding the system I have had installed.

I find that I do not need to keep all the doors shut just the main patio or front door even then I can keep the patio door slightly open without it really affecting the cooling performance. By keeping the internal doors open the whole apartment stays cool or hot including the hallway kitchen etc. I had the installers fit extra ducting and vent to the master bathroom so that also stays cool or hot as needed.

 It´s impossible to discuss the need for aircon based on personal experiences. It not only depends on your usage of the apartment (never there in August f.i.), your personal tolerance for cold and heat and above all the lay-out of the apartments.

Especially the garden apartments in the middle don´t get a lot of sun and as far I recall there are only two people who installed aircon. One just for rental purposes (otherwise people refuse it anyway because they don´t know how warm it will actually get) and one, RG, who lives there permanently. David has such a middle garden apt so no wonder he doesn´t feel the need for it.

The corner garden apartments get much hotter and colder especially those at the right side (midday and evening sun and all the cold wind from the mountains). Balcony apartments are much hotter on average. Block 10 is completely different because there the usually cold side with the small bedroom gets the afternoon sun. 

I for one am not capable to cool or heat my whole apartment although I have a huge unit in the lounge only. But it seems a bit fruitless to discuss individual experiences. The question was how to install it and who to recommend. 

Max.

 Max I see you are referring to my earlier posting. Andy has actually asked me of how well the system I have in place performs so I do not think it is inappropriate to mention what I have.

As for your suggestion that middle garden apartments don't need air con this is not true just ask my neighbour who last summer was suffering. True they do not get the direct sun but its still gets very very hot! Not to mention heating in the winter.

Infact so many people stated at the time when I had mine installed that it is not needed or that it is only needed for one month of the year but now two years on those very same people have either installed air con or have got ceiling fans (usually because they couldn't warrant the cost of air con install but would probably have it otherwise).  I suggest you keep your personal opinions which have no relevance here to yourself! 

 Calm down RG. I have no problem at all with your recommendations. I didn´t comment on them. 

I also didn´t claim that middle garden apartments don´t need it. I just pointed out that there are large differences between the layouts and sun exposure of the apartments. These were btw not my personal experiences but these of our clients. If you look around on the site you will see that most of the aircons are on the balcony and corner garden ones. That´s an observation, no opinion. 

As stated earlier it´s all about your people´s personal comfort and preferences.

Max.  

 Max may I remind you, what you wrote (in some instances reading between the lines):

 It´s impossible to discuss the need for aircon based on personal experiences.

So who's personal experiences were you referring to, yours?

Especially the garden apartments in the middle don´t get a lot of sun and as far I recall there are only two people who installed aircon. One just for rental purposes (otherwise people refuse it anyway because they don´t know how warm it will actually get) and one, RG, who lives there permanently. David has such a middle garden apt so no wonder he doesn´t feel the need for it.

If the above paragraph and especially the last line is not stating your personal opinion about the middle apartments don't need it then I don't know what is!

As I said keep your hypocritical and irrelevant statements and opinions to yourself!

I decided to go with the remote ceiling fans. The reason we installed them was not because of the sun, we get it all day, and are in a middle apartment. It was because in the height of Summer at night, there is no breeze. Myself and Gordon done the job, and many others waited to see how mine turned out before going down the same route. Best to wait until the weather warms up a bit as the diy stores have a limited stock in the Winter. We got ours at Leroy Merlin. They are good value for money, virtually no noise and are great just above your bed. I recently rented out to John Terry, Ashley Cole and Tiger Woods. They all said they sweated a little, but just set the fans to the highest setting to cool down. It seemed to work :-)

 Hi Westport,

We went for the the same solution, but used aircon in the lounge. 

However fo us the ceiling fan in the master bedroom is perfectly fine in the summer. A little advise as I installed a lot of them for clients: don´t go to cheap on them. The larger the blades are the slower they can move and that´s much more comfortable than a small one rotating very fast. You get a more even distribution of air, no draught but just a slight cooling breeze and thanks to be able to set them on slow rotation they are even more silent.

Multiple clients are very happy with the solution I installed; others still prefer aircon.

This winter we would have liked to have a good inverter aircon unit to heat up the master bedroom :(

Max.

Tonight it is forecast that in Belfast temperatures will drop below freezing. Our heating went off an hour ago and will not come on until 8.00AM tomorrow but due to insulation we will not be cold. This sort of temperature is unheard of on CDS but even when the temperature falls to 10C in an uninsulated apartment it feels very cold! We set our heaters to maintain 17C at night and they come on and off to maintain this temperature. Invertor aircon could be used to produce the same effect for a similar amount of money so the big question which will produce different answers from different people is:

In the summer do we want the genuinely cool air that only aircon can provide or is the cooling effect of a more economical fan a better option?

BTW Westport I don't want to make you jealous or anything. Tiger Terry and Ashley haven't been in touch but we're looking at doing a deal with their ex's for an apartment in the very upmarket block 6 for an undisclosed number of weeks starting at a date we are not at liberty to devulge.  Use of ceiling fans is included in the package. Vangy is unable to come but I have personally undertaken to attend to their every need during their much needed vocation.

I have decided to go for ceiling fans in the bedrooms and are looking for someone to install the electrics and fit the fans. Has anyone got any recomendations on who to use and where is the best place to buy the fans.

Many thanks

Jo

Hi Jo

Gordon does a great job with the fans. He has done many apartments on Don Juan. I have sent you a private message with his details.

Westport