All purchasers are equal but some are more equal than others

 

Where have SARC gone? .At the slightest bit if bad news they evaporate.
Where is Napoleon, is he helping Winston at the Ministry of truth with his mission (to alter the past to suit the present) or is he helping Squealer's task of amending the Ten Commandments i.e.  Thou shalt not curse or accuse SJ Thou shalt not bear false witness against SJ. Thou shall believe the word of SJ above all others etc etc etc .
The most pathetic attempt at forming an effective group as I have ever seen .

I was thinking the same JA?  This happens every time or am I mistaken.  Does any member from IWMH ever post?  This is merely an observation and question.  Does anyone still believe in the SADM project?

Yes we are still here , just dont feel the need to post everyday.
Not sure as to whether SADM will get built but like to keep my finger in every pie so to speak.
Not even sure IWMH anymore!!!!!
But hey, dont shoot the messenger!!!!!!!!

I'm still here also.

Still want my house because I still cannot see any other way of getting anything back financially any other way.

Where was the bad news did I miss that post.

Hi Vic  Hope you are both well.

Hi Taxiparrots.

Hope you are both well also despite all. 
One question regarding your BG.  It is purely out of curiosity that I ask but did you pay the quarterly fee that was asked of some.  I know 2 people have been paid out and that they started the process prior to the administration but was curious as to why they were paid out while others where not, given that they too started the process before administration.  I know some people where paying a fee, even though they were not legally obliged too, much the same as an insurance policy and wondered if this made some sort of difference.

 Hi victheking, its good to hear from you, we are all in this together whatever we want.  I guess technically we all still have a foot in all camps because we arent in a position to choose anything else just yet.  I know we are all hoping that the Judge takes absolutely everything into account including the fraud but we shall just have to sit it out and see and hope.

Linda, I know my Agent from the UK (who flew out with me in May), raised this point about fees with SJ whilst in their offices as they have been paying for the BGs themselves.  Ill get in touch with them and see what legal position this put them in.  Im sure they were going to claim the fees back .  They are good folk and have been financially hit by this almost as much as me.

Hi everybody

Lovely to see some familiar names and even lovelier to have some friendly, supportive messages!  Long may it continue!

We are with Linda on this one, as although we can't afford to wait for our house, we definitely hope that San Jose get the finance and that SADM goes ahead as we see that as the only way we will get any money.  If they are declared bankrupt and thrown into prison as some people seem to suggest should happen, how will those of us without a bank guarantee get anything back?  John and I are now both retired, and at the moment we are renting a house in Jumilla (having a great time here, in case anybody is interested!) so we really need to find a property to buy sooner rather than later. 

It was very sad when we walked out to the site and found it all closed (not sure whether that was because it was Saturday, but there was no notice up with opening times).  Every time we get the bus to Murcia, I look over that way and wonder if one day there will be a completed development there, with golf courses.  If only I had a crystal ball!

Sue

Hi Linda,
Hope you and David are both well.
We  paid no fee for our bank guarantee as the fee on a bank guarantee  is not due until completion which will never happen for us now as the resolution of our contract has been accepted and registered with the court. Doing it this way our lawyers will demand legal interest which will be quite substantial after all this time. 
Richard & Linda. 


This message was last edited by taxiparrots on 10/22/2008.

Well done Taxiparrots.  Given that you are successful will you now look for a key ready or have you given up on Spain altogether.  My regards to Linda and Emma.

Sue.  I am pleased you are enjoying Jumilla.  It takes a bit of re-adjusting sometimes. Now when we go back to London we think we are on a different planet sometimes.  I spoke to Javier this morning as I had a call from someone who wanted to visit the site tomorrow.  He is coming by bus from Alicante.  Javier says it is open.

Hi Linda,
Well, success will be judged when we have our deposit refunded and it is safely back in our bank account.We still have to go back to the guarantee bank to execute the guarantee. If they still refuse to refund they will be starring at a lawsuit themselves plus a damming report to the Bank of Spain and the Spanish Housing Minister.  Our lawyer is absolutely ruthless which unfortunately is the only way to  get a result in this situation.

If we decide to buy in Spain in future it will definately be key ready. I think the Spanish off plan construction industry is now dead  and will be for many years after this. Once the general public know of the problems involved in executing bank guarantees (that is if you're lucky enough to be given one) they simply won't want to know.Spain has really shot itself in the foot.

This message was last edited by taxiparrots on 10/22/2008.

This message was last edited by taxiparrots on 10/22/2008.

Sue mac - I am not sure if you understand.

If SJ carry on stumbling in the dark the crooked Directors will have longer to Money Launder your money. They are already exposed in that they have been deliberately salting away to Mauritius and other places like Panama. There personal assets in Elche were getting sold off last year, the fleet has gone into personal names meaning no asset for the business. It is blatent, open, crooked fraud which the inept Spanish legal and financial system seem powerless or perhaps more importantly (knowing the inherent corrupt Spanish system for bribes and backhanders) don't want to stop!

If they manage (and SARC's even miniscule efforts affect this) manage to delay the Courts long enough they will have sold those assets and diluted the cash.

Money Laundering does not require face value, for example if you steal £1 million and convert it into £200,000 clean money - you have not made a loss of £800,000, you have profit of £200,000.

The shareholders (local indiginous (cant spell!)  Spanish citizens) are suing the Directors for FRAUD.

The Directors will once they have Money Laundered enough - just say to Courts we cant get finance,-  which everyone knows they cant anyway - and will just humbly accept bankruptcy.

They will send a letter to everyone saying they really tried hard and "are so sorry", "we are a family (crooked) firm", "we love our clients" (pass the sick bag), "our clients are like friends to us", whilst counting the millions they have stolen from hard working clients.

But they will be living on your money - taken illegally from a company that never ever had any intention of building SADM.

This is the issue -  the company are going to go bankrupt at some time the issue is when.

So despite sensible commentators on here people are still clinging onto to a hope (perpetuated by Almu "AKA Tony"),  and SJ are just been givien long enough to Money Launder your money.

This is why the delay will only assist  them and not the buyers.

You have to fight this - everyone has to fight -

Do not trust the crooked , corrupt Spanish legal system and do not assume it will defend your interests.

It has been 12 mths since story broke inside property circles that San jose were slowly winding things down so to declare themselves bankrupt in the new year. I have tried to warn people repeatedly for over a year

Thank you Alamred,


Any advice on how we can fight beyond actions we have already taken.


Regards

Arlene

Alamred.  At this point in time I think everyone understands but everything you say is hearsay  and unless you have a BG and therefore, with litigation, can claim money from the bank or someone can be made into a special and privileged creditor, it makes not a blind bit of difference and has not done for about a year.  As an ordinary creditor you come way down the list to be paid out and there is no money.  If there was they would be building.  I, like Sue, want my house.  That is the only way I can see to get my money back, even if it is only to leave it to the grandchildren. I did not say I was going to get it nor did she. 

Provide the proof to substantiate your claims please or at least tell us how we can fight this currupt system as you call it .  That would be most useful.

I ask you the question how does one fight without sending the little money that people have left down the drain.

HI Linda,

You say there is no money how do you know this for certain are you going on information provided at the meetings with Almuedena or do you have more factual proof?



Kind Regards

Arlene

Linda in my humble opinion a class lawsuit collectively involving every buyer appointing a "rottweiller" lawyer in the City of London to take on the Spanish government in Strasborg is the only way forward.

Remember it is not only SJ who are blatently stealing peoples money.

How many UK, Dutch, German, Swiss, Ffrench and Spanish buyers are continually fobbed off by the corrupt Spanish system. Just like the UK the little people get trampled on, but the reason little people get trampled on is money.

Can you imagine someone of the wealth of Philip Green just sitting back. he could pay the lawyer the £1000 a day lawsuit.

But if 1000 buyers paid a High Court law firm that is a fee of £1 million pound.

You are suing the Spanish corrupt housing system

It seem dreamland but it is not that is exactly who Murcia City Council were caught out over Trampolin Hills and it is the spanish government who are paying back deposits

For 7 mths people have been trying to sue / contest / appeal / obtain bank guarantee pay out via a Spanish system we know of corrupt and flawed.

Maria on her repeatedly states it is under Spanish statute that bg MUST BE PAID OUT, INTEREST MUST BE PAID OUT.

Why has no one been paid.

Because the judges are corrupt and on the take, the politicians are on the take

You have to sue the spanish establishment not wait for corrupt officials who haveappointed admininstrators who just in fact turn out to be MAJOR CREDITORS.

What chance of any semblance of fair play when the ADMINISTRATORS appointed by the Court, are more interested in their liabilities than yours.

For example when Leeds United went bankrupt did they appointment the clubs bankers as administrators off course not it was somelike like price waterhouse - certified, independent auditiors.

If that would have happened here we would have established:-

1) There was no money in ring fenced account - contrary to spanish law.
2) That the assets were widely over valued - breaking immediately the potential for saviour
3) That the company had deliberately and fraudulently diluted corporate assets prior to making public they were going in receivership - in other words fraud

The independent auditors would then have asked the British High Court to freeze worldwide assets.

None of this has bene done

You cannot trust the legal system which protects it's own above the client

Linda,

You say if we fight it is money down the drain but that is assuming we lose what if we win and there is bank accounts/hidden or otherwise surely some of that old british bulldog spirit is still there.

Me I'm going down fighting. I want my house in Spain too but it will not be from SJ even if there was a cat in hell's chance of them being able to provide one.


Arlene


This message was last edited by arlene2804 on 10/22/2008.

The thing i have been putting forward for the last few months is a little different from the last postings, but not a million miles away.

I have a bit of humility, because i dont see myself as being in a position to influence anything in this administration. (not even if i start a website and get a posse up)

I can hire a lawyer, within my financial means, i can ask for that representation to get me as much back as they can, from the remnants of the finances.  I can put my trust in the lawyer to do whats right and i can make sure i get my monies worth.

I am definately not advocating the builder carries on building, because they have got it wrong so far, and its not right that they carry on just to try and get me out of a jam, fact is they will get me further into a jam because i will have to stump up for more of their mistakes in the future..

I dont want anyone else to buy a property on deposit from these people because they dont have any customer focus, they are self centred profiteers in a corrupt system.

I dont hang my hat on the premise that the only way for me to get a good result, is for them to carry on building, because thats like a pyramid selling system, just to save my neck.

I want them wound up and us to be paid out....even if i only get 50 quid......

You may ask why.....the answer is because its the right thing to do....thats it really.

Hi Arlene

No it is not just because Almudena admitted it.  I look at the evidence around me.
I believe that had they had the money they would have paid for the expropriated land and continued building as that is what they can use the money for.  The whacking great cement maker alone must have cost more than it claimed they spent.  I believe that if the money was there they could have raised another loan from a bank against it.  The banks here are in a bad way but not in the same predicament that other countries are in because they are not deregulated.  With 1600 sales it was still a going concern if they had not spent the deposit money. The site itself is no longer being maintained.  They cannot pay the power supply bills for those at El Pinet any longer.  The staff only got half their salaries last month. The law itself regarding this account just does not work in the business sense.  Constructors may try but find they cannot make it work as they need the capital and interest and what do they do when the bank will not give them the guarantees even when they ask for them.  I have spoken privately to several barristers and a notary that we ski with and they explain why it is not workable much better than I can. Martin says in his years in practice he has never seen a construction company put deposit money into a separate account.  Given that everyone thinks SJ are crooked etc. Why would they do that.

Cement silo's are subsidised by the cement manufacturers Linda.  The builder uses their cement, they give them the silo back at the end of the contract, it saves on transporting wet concrete or mortar around the country, its made on site.

So it benefits both and is therefore subsidised or leased.

briando. That is the problem when lay-people see something and don't really know the goings on and go on to misinterpret.
Just the same as a long time ago, I was slated for questioning if the developer actually owned all the land and had paid the fees for the Licences. Just because there was a showhouse on part of the site, I was rubbished as not knowing what I was talking about.
Funny how time tells?

the crux of the matter here Linda however in trying to get money back via the courts is not what martin thinks happens in practice but what legally should happen in reality. It is this which will reflect the legal judgement made No disrespect to martin he seems a sound advisor but if the solicitors accept this as normal and dont try to challenge then we stand no chance.