UK CROWN PENSION TO BE DECLARED IN SPAIN THIS YEAR

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05 Apr 2017 3:38 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Could your connection to the Police and good character have played its part in this fair practice on your gestors part, John? wink

 Whatever, it sounds a welcome and fair solution given you identified it was a mistake on your gestors part. Well done!

Also a great example of EOS at its best, helping people within the forum. laugh

 


This message was last edited by ads on 05/04/2017.



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05 Apr 2017 4:16 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

Ads.    I cannot imagine it has anything to do with what I did for a living 30 years ago.    From what my friend in Hacienda said I think it more likely she was concerned what action Hacienda or I might take for her unprofessional service.  But who knows?





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05 Apr 2017 6:35 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

I would hope and trust, John, that the Hacienda and / or gestors are not taking advantage of retainment of monies ( interest) for an unnecessarily lengthy period of time if these wrongly assessed amounts are typical of the norm.

It's sad that these instances occur, as if not careful it will undo the progress and trust made in other areas to make "professionals" more accountable in Spain.  Perhaps it's a one-off occurrence ( ever the optimist)?

Trust and respect are essential core values which provide the potential to enhance economic growth in any civilised society. I just wish more would recognise it!!!

 





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06 Apr 2017 11:25 AM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

John.

Several questions arise from this....

Is there a professional body that covers gestors to act as accredited professionals in Spain and is there any list of accredited professionals by region?

Who do you report this form of lack of due diligence to, if ongoing errors of this nature are identified?

Is this a case of a new procedure not being adequately catered for in the standardised documentation required or is it a case of lack of training to accommodate a new procedure within the profession?

What qualifications are required to become a gestor in Spain and what ongoing training is required to adequately cater for changes in the system, I wonder?

Are the Hacienda supportive in these circumstances where it is gestor error, or are they turning a blind eye to errors of this nature?

This hardly inspires confidence in the current administrative system, to adequately cater for changing fiscal requirements.

 





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06 Apr 2017 12:54 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

Sorry Ads. That is too far off thread for me to answer, even if I could





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06 Apr 2017 1:22 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2328 posts Send private message

Here you go ads.

A gestor is not a licensed professional. In reality, he is just a clerk with experience and good contacts. In theory, you could open a gestoría tomorrow, so you need to be selective when you search one out. He can help you with basic administrative processes,  but if you can find a gestoría that doubles as an abogado or contable or some such within the same office, then you can be more confident.





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06 Apr 2017 2:59 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

Interesting,    but see here:-   

  http://www.justlanded.co.uk/english/Spain/Articles/Visas-Permits/The-legal-system

QUOTE       ..................      A gestor is an official agent licensed by the Spanish government ............................

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 06/04/2017.



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06 Apr 2017 3:06 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4552 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Would help if you said where you're quoting (copying and pasting) from, Baz. Is that official information, or just something Tony down the pub told you?!

I wouldn't bother with a gestor who is not a member of this organisation, and displays their logo: http://consejogestores.net/es/web/home

Nevertheless, I would not necessarily expect a gestor to know all the ins & outs of non-Spanish financial products and how the Spanish administration handles them, such as annuities, crown pensions, premium bonds, etc. etc. As always, with self declarations (whether or not you employ a gestor to file on your behalf) you, the tax payer, are ultimately responsible for your own affairs, so it pays to keep as well informed as possible. Forums such as this, and info sharing, are a good start.



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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06 Apr 2017 4:17 PM by baz1946 Star rating. 2328 posts Send private message

www.SpainExpat.com

Above is the site Roberto, I do not subscribe to it, neither am I on it under another name, I was more then curious myself when this Gestor thing came up so I did the search....Just me not......

Tony down the pub crops up a lot on here, hope he's not a reliable source of mis-informed information, sorry I know no more then this.

Conflicting information for sure.

 


This message was last edited by baz1946 on 06/04/2017.



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06 Apr 2017 4:46 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4552 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

"Conflicting information" could be a nice succinct description of life in Spain. Ask 2 different people, and you'll get three different answers. The problem is, even when trying to get information from "official" sources, this can happen, but the problem is often amplified when relying on non-official, non-Spanish sources - and Tony. 

In reality, he is just a (bar-room lawyer) with (questionable) experience and good dodgy contacts. In theory, (he) could open a (website) tomorrow, so you need to be selective when you search one out.

cheeky

(No offence meant to anyone, just having a bit of a laugh, so please don't take it too seriously!)



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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06 Apr 2017 5:50 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Baz1946,

In the quote it mentioned " if you can find a gestoría that doubles as an abogado or contable or some such within the same office, then you can be more confident."

So I wonder how can expats ( those who need the guidance and reassurance) find such a legal professional  or law firm that can be trusted to provide this specialised knowledge under the "umbrella" of their legal due diligences if there is no accreditation system in place to act as a regulatory mechanism for gestorial competence?

To leave expats at risk in this manner when potentially large sums of monies can be witheld for long periods of time ( in error) seems extraordinary.

Is there an equivalent to the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) in Spain? This is the equivalent in the UK https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/financial-services-register

Perhaps Maria could advise?


This message was last edited by ads on 06/04/2017.


This message was last edited by ads on 06/04/2017.


This message was last edited by ads on 06/04/2017.



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08 Apr 2017 8:45 AM by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9402 posts Send private message

mariadecastro´s avatar

Gestores Administrativos are under this regulatory body: http://consejogestores.net/es/web/home, which also has sections in every spanish province.

Access to the profession requires a degree on either Law, Economic, Business Management or Political Sciences and an access examination.



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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08 Apr 2017 9:57 AM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4552 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Ads, in answer to your questions "Is there a professional body that covers gestors to act as accredited professionals in Spain",

and

"I wonder how can ( those who need the guidance and reassurance) find such a legal professional...that can be trusted to provide this specialised knowledge...if there is no accreditation system in place to act as a regulatory mechanism for gestorial competence?"

...as Maria and I have already pointed out - there is. How competent individual members of said organisation are, and how effective it is at maintaining standards and protecting consumers is obviously open to debate, but to assume (based on some non-accredited, non-Spanish website) that they are all just jumped up clerks without a clue is simply wrong. And for those who speak little or no Spanish and/or have little or no knowledge of how things work in Spain, there's really no choice but to employ a gestor for certain things. The only advice therefore I can offer is to try to get personal recommendations, but also to try to clue yourself up as much as possible (via discussions such as this, or by learning enough Spanish to be able to trawl through official Spanish sites) so that you're more able to spot when your professional advisor maybe isn't giving you the best advice. 



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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08 Apr 2017 10:47 AM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Roberto,

I think you misunderstood my posting.

I was asking the questions and endeavouring to seek out information and solutions given the problems that Johnzx experienced.

I certainly have not "jumped to that conclusion" as you appear to suggest, but was asking the questions to gain clarification and for others on EOS to hopefully benefit from.

 


This message was last edited by ads on 08/04/2017.



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08 Apr 2017 11:25 AM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4552 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

And I thought I had answered those questions, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

The only thing I can add to what I already said, however, is that in my experience, professionals in Spain (lawyers, gestors etc.) will usually do whatever you ask (pay) them to, and answer any questions you have - but will rarely tell you what questions you should be asking. Perhaps this is a cultural difference, but the only solution I have found over the years is to learn as much as I can myself before turning to professionals to carry out tasks that are too complicated or time consuming to do myself. As I've said before (and as John has also testified), forums such as this can be a great help but one must always be cautious - Tony is never far away, lurking with intent to provide dodgy information!



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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08 Apr 2017 12:02 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

Thank you Roberto and Maria.

One more question for Maria, please, do law firms use their own Gestoria (as part of their team) and refer to them if a client was to come to them seeking accredited financial assistance of this nature, and would this then provide them with an avenue for extra reassurance re due diligence?

 


This message was last edited by ads on 08/04/2017.



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08 Apr 2017 1:28 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4552 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Not wanting to answer for Maria, just sharing my own experience: I have used totally separate lawyers and gestors, but my lawyer's office did open a gestoría department a few years back. I think they since closed it again, but if I hadn't already have had a gestor, I would certainly have used their "in-house" gestor, simply because I had (have) total confidence in them as lawyers. Another thing - I bought (and sold) several properties over the years, using our local notary. I always used their in-house gestor facilities to process paperwork (land registry, payment of transmission tax etc.) thinking that this was normal, i.e that all notaries have gestoría departments who automatically handle all this stuff, until I bought a property which I signed for at a notary in Málaga. It took me a while to understand that they had no in-house gestor department and I had to take everything to a gestor of my choosing. Whether or not the gestor department in our local notary's office handles business that doesn't originate from the notary, I wouldn't know, but I suppose if they do, one would feel fairly confident that they would provide a reliable, professional service.



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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08 Apr 2017 1:37 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5242 posts Send private message

How to find a reliable professional. 

Many would say “get personal recommendations.’  That is of course fine in theory but a lawyer, gestor etc. is considered to be reliable if they do not make errors which their clients discover

As most do not know what is required, that is why they employ a professional, they have little knowledge upon which to base an opinion of reliability.

 Example:  ‘My gestor’ has been  very well recommended by lots of foreigners over many years.  As I know,  that is because most of her clients do not know enough about legal obligations in Spain to be able to judge if she gets it right. 

My recent experience is just one example of her lack of knowledge that I have discovered over the years. 

She has on several occasions ask me for advice on matters which I think she should have already known !

As I said,  How do you find a reliable professional ??????

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 08/04/2017.



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08 Apr 2017 2:26 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4552 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

What more can I say? My gestor of many years, also highly regarded and recommneded by many other expats, proved totally un-informed on an important topic recently (and I was able to prove him wrong), so there's no fail safe way of knowing whether or not you're getting the right advice, you can only hope for the best. This is Spain - ultimately, if you can't handle the way it is, get out!



_______________________

 

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain

 

 

 




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08 Apr 2017 3:01 PM by ads Star rating. 4122 posts Send private message

No Roberto, that doesn't resolve the problem and is no solution to developing Spain's economy or seeking a way forward to value ALL citizen's best interests and develop trust and respect between citizens and professionals, is it?

It doesn't have to be like this! 





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