Spain suspends house evictions for two years

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12 Nov 2012 15:10 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Big breaking news at lunchtime

Spanish banks are to suspend evictions for the next two years for the most vulnerable people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20299384



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12 Nov 2012 16:10 by clarice Star rating. 35 posts Send private message

 but who are the vunerable people ????????

 

 





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12 Nov 2012 22:28 by manorpark Star rating. 165 posts Send private message

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This is good news for those facing real hardship. At last somebody higher up is considering how a desperate situation can affect the lives of others.





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13 Nov 2012 08:33 by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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Horrible that now a second person has committed suicide when facing eviction. Hopefully this new ruling will prevent more tragic deaths. Clarice - people will have to show "extreme hardship" to avoid eviction. Sadly there are thousands, tens of thousands, possibly a hundred thousand Spanish families who are clearly in extreme hardship.

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13 Nov 2012 08:55 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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A little more on this story from El Pais - Interesting that the police union are going to back officers who refuse to carry out evections.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/11/12/inenglish/1352728867_381049.html



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13 Nov 2012 09:04 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

 

So the Gov say the banks must now foot the bill for those who cannot pay. So that mean the banks customers, you and me,  will pay more for bank services and maybe the bank will go bust anyway.  Who will repay us when that happens?  And how many people who then lose their jobs in banking from the cleaners to the Boardroom will commit suicide.
 
 
Why not pass a law that poor people can shop and get all the other services without paying, its the same thing in the end.
 
This is not a solution but turning  a blind eye to the problem.
 

 





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13 Nov 2012 11:50 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

 Yes, terrible as any eviction is, I think that johnzx is right.    Just allowing people to default is not the answer.   I see the number of expats walking away from property in Spain as a very negative reaction which may not only effect the people in property around them, but may well not even pay off for them as individuals, as the bank may pursue.   Most Spanish families of course, cannot just lock up and walk away - it is the only home they have. I did do some time in litigation for banks - and it is not nice, but on balance, it has to be done.  





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13 Nov 2012 12:08 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Insofar as I understand this initiative, it's not about a free bail out or default but a 2 year moratorium on the mortgage which is something different all together.

People need to read the full story before jumping in.



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13 Nov 2012 12:18 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

 You are correct, but in two years it could be some of the banks struggling.  I was trying to make a broader point, and I am afraid it does not matter if it is a one or two or three year moratorium - there will still be evictions.    In many case it will just be two years of more worry - extending the agony so to speak.    I don't know the figures for how many evictions have taken place, but I think the banks have managed to keep it fairly low - given the high unemployment rate.    I understood the point that Johnzx was making to be that there is a real danger in this kind of action, since it may well encourage more people to default.   I think it is a valid concern in spite of it being a moritorium rather than a 'let off'. 





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13 Nov 2012 12:30 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Yes Roly

But it's still a initiative, and for me any initiative is better than none, what's the alternative plan?

Also part of this initiative is to make Dacion en Pago (handing the keys back) easier, something Maria has been arguing for.



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13 Nov 2012 12:34 by Roly2 Star rating in Almeria. 648 posts Send private message

 I agree that initiatives are needed.   But I am just concerned that this is a knee jerk reaction.  What the government needs to do is to get people back to work - especially the young, and I would like to see priority given to initiatives in this area.  





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13 Nov 2012 13:13 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

Sorry I cannot agree that it is an initiative
 
                (an introductory act or step; leading action: to take the initiative in making friends.,  readiness and ability in initiating action; enterprise:).
 
It is not a step towards solving the problem just delaying it and turning a blind eye to the problem,  at the expense of others (the banks and their customers, you and me)





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13 Nov 2012 14:53 by ads Star rating. 4019 posts Send private message

The lack of banking regulation to control the banks in their unrealistic lending practices, the greed and lack of social awareness that has subsequently ensued from their uncontrolled actions, the scant disregard of their responsibilities to adhere to existing law (57/68), the abuse of contracts, corruption, collusion, the abuse of procedural advantage, all sadly emanate from the lack of adequate banking regulation.

What is needed now are directives, whether they be from Government and/or legal bodies such as the Judges Association, the Supreme Court, etc, to effectively and fairly restore faith that, where applicable, banks will be made consistently accountable for their malpractice, whilst also finding enforceable mechanisms to ensure  that banks face up to their social responsibilities and play their fair part in practical solutions which are desperately required as a direct result of their previous uncontrolled actions.

Adequate financial regulation, effective monitoring and enforceable controls in place to protect citizens, are an essential pre-requisite to any civilised society. Let's hope lessons will be learned...... 





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13 Nov 2012 15:25 by bobaol Star rating. 2256 posts Send private message

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 ads

The lack of banking regulation to control the banks in their unrealistic lending practices, the greed and lack of social awareness that has subsequently ensued from their uncontrolled actions, the scant disregard of their responsibilities to adhere to existing law (57/68), the abuse of contracts, corruption, collusion, the abuse of procedural advantage, all sadly emanate from the lack of adequate banking regulation.

What is needed now are directives, whether they be from Government and/or legal bodies such as the Judges Association, the Supreme Court, etc, to effectively and fairly restore faith that, where applicable, banks will be made consistently accountable for their malpractice, whilst also finding enforceable mechanisms to ensure  that banks face up to their social responsibilities and play their fair part in practical solutions which are desperately required as a direct result of their previous uncontrolled actions.

Adequate financial regulation, effective monitoring and enforceable controls in place to protect citizens, are an essential pre-requisite to any civilised society. Let's hope lessons will be learned...... 

So that's enough about UK then, what about Spain?





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14 Nov 2012 07:47 by ads Star rating. 4019 posts Send private message

To imply that this is not relative to Spain is foolish and does a grave dis-service to all those compromised by Bank's behaviour and their lack of accountability and social awareness.


 


This message was last edited by ads on 14/11/2012.



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14 Nov 2012 16:49 by llegaralasestrellas Star rating in United Kingdom (BHX .... 58 posts Send private message

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Three things.

1. I don't see anyone suggesting that a moratorium is an alternative to creating employment. The two are not mutually exclusive.

2. Creating employment is not immediate. People are being evicted now, and an immediate solution is needed.

3. The banks agreed to this before being forced, and the EU has also supported this move.





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14 Nov 2012 17:00 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5240 posts Send private message

 

As one of those who is actually paying taxes in Spain, both direct and indirect, and whose taxes are supporting those who cannot pay, both directly and indirectly (in our banks charges, increased IVA and increased income tax rates etc.).  May I suggest they should invent a new tax. Lets call it 'The Donation Tax’ to support  those who are poor.
 
And maybe non-resident property owners would like to contribute too, and those ‘rich’ holidaymakers could be surcharged, and how about those living in other countries,  who think alllowing people not to pay their mortgages for a couple years is a good idea, maybe they would also like to get in on the act and send a few thousand euros !!!!

 

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 14/11/2012.



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14 Nov 2012 17:47 by Poppyseed Star rating. 898 posts Send private message

You're all heart Johnzx...............................................................



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14 Nov 2012 20:26 by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

Don't be shocked John, but I agree with some of the sentiment of what you are saying.  As a general point, people often say they support the 'underdog,' but do this with mere words.  Maybe some people also put their money where their mouth is...  As landlords ourselves, we often get people 'feeling sorry' for our non-paying tenants.  And the ones with whom we have had the most trouble over the years are not ones on benefits and/or those who would be deemed to be the poorest in society.  They tend to pay their rent and get by on what they receive either from benefits or their wages.  The ones who have left us thousands of pounds out of pocket (and this has happened countless times over the years) tend to be the ones where they are in employment, but prefer to spend the money on going 'up the club,' smoking, drinking, getting takeaways instead of cooking, having expensive satellite TV packages, mobile 'phones, cars they can't afford and so on.  I'm not talking about Spain here, but the UK.  These people get free legal advice, help from 'Shelter' and other housing advice and are advised to 'sit tight' until we get the bailiffs in, by which time, we are owed five or six months' rent, whilst we have been paying the mortgage.  The Housing Advice workers themselves would not take £10 out of their monthly pay packet to help these people, but they see them as the victims of us as the heinous landlords and are happy for us to fund a roof over their heads time and time again. 

I think that, in Spain, the issue which is being highlighted relates mostly to people who have mortgages with the banks and who are under threat of eviction, but I wonder about the private landlords and how they are managing when the rents aren't paid.  It is my understanding that it has always taken about two years to evict tenants from rented properties in Spain.  I heard that this has changed and that it has become easier to get out a non-paying tenant now, but I suspect that it would still take a long time, with the Spanish courts being what they are. 

It is my belief that if you just think that evictions are always bad, you should imagine, for example, that you own a house in Spain and because of unforeseen circumstances you need to return to the UK to live.  You then need to rent out your Spanish house, because nothing is selling and are dependent on that income to live, including paying rent on a UK home for yourself.  What if your new tenants don't pay and you can't evict them and/or end up thousands out of pocket and with lots of damage done to your house (which also happens to us in the UK) and you end up getting evicted from your UK rental home, through no fault of your own?  Over the years, | have often seen reports on Spanish TV of tenants being evicted, and have never once seen the landlords' point of view represented  (I don't have access to Spanish TV at the moment, but doubt that this bias will have changed).

Personally I would never let a house in Spain to a long-term tenant, as I don't believe the law would support the landlord at all.  Because of this very real fear, many people do not rent out their Spanish homes and there is then the issue of a lack of affordable housing for young people in Spain. 

This is not a black-and-white issue and there are many aspects to it.



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15 Nov 2012 09:02 by ads Star rating. 4019 posts Send private message

This is not a black-and-white issue and there are many aspects to it.


How true eggcup, but one common theme that is supposed to protect all from the vulnerabilities you refer to are workable regulatory controls, effectively monitored together with a legal system that consistently enforces regulation/existing laws, and we all know that this is sadly a complete lottery in Spain for all manner of reasons. 





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