New Villas Being Built

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Terrazas de la Torre Golf Resort forum threads
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06 Jan 2017 11:17 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2348 forum posts Send private message

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Not sure of people know but a local developer, now connected with Sun Penninsula,r have just announced that they are building 8 new design villas on the development, some frontline golf

** EDITED - Against forum rules - commercial **

 


This message was last edited by eos_moderators on 07/01/2017 11:33:00.

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06 Jan 2017 20:19 by thorpej2 Star rating in Loughborough . 92 forum posts Send private message

** EDITED - Against forum rules - commercial**

Not sure where on the resort they intend to build them.

Jim...

 


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06 Jan 2017 22:40 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 358 forum posts Send private message

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Hi Jim

A lot of discussion about this on the owners facebook page. More questions than answers but the apparent location is phase 12 next to the pool beside block 293

Nobody seems to know about this and the big questions would be with respect to planning permission and community fees. How could an area that was approved for construction of apartment blocks be used to build villas and what are the implications with respect to adoption by the community.

Also they claim they will be ready end of summer 2017 which seems a bit .... ambitious?



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06 Jan 2017 22:56 by newworld Star rating. 870 forum posts Send private message

Not sure of people know but a local developer, now connected with Sun Penninsula.------------ I think Sun Penninsula company is owned by one of the old Polaris World directors, so probably got the land for free.




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06 Jan 2017 23:36 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 358 forum posts Send private message

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Yes newworld, the murky world of Polaris World who thankfully are now in voluntary bankruptcy. Sun Peninsula are the developers who are building blocks 273-274 and are also building the new villas.

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds as the community fees that are being quoted for the villas are way below the quotas for the plot they are being built on.

They are building 8 villas on a plot earmarked for 32 apartments. As such I would expect community fees would be 2-3 times higher than those quoted. This is being discussed on the owners facebook page.


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 07/01/2017.
This message was last edited by eos_ian on 07/01/2017 08:54:00.

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07 Jan 2017 09:08 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2348 forum posts Send private message

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Duncan you really need to look at the way that community fees are levied on and  compare what is provided comparing detached villas with apartments

Most community  fees result from the shared facilities, pools, gardens, lifts and finally roads and hallways and then the overall admin fees to run a community, which you don'tb have for DETACHED VILLAS., ttypically around 85% of the monthly fees

A development of detached villas do not have any of these expensive liabilities, the owners will be responsible for the maintenance of their own pools and gardens so the community fees will be dramatically lower than an apartment

They will pay more in IBI, the local rates based on the plot sizes and a contribution to the security fees, same as they do on La Torre and El Valle already, where I believe the ratio for a similar detached villas is around 1.5 times the fee for an apartment

 


This message was last edited by inspectahomespain on 07/01/2017.

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07 Jan 2017 09:23 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2348 forum posts Send private message

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The companty that are building these properties do have an association with Sun Penninsular but they are a well established promoter with an excellent track record for building similar properties around the area, in fact I can take you to any number of their show houses

They have finished properties and they are also building properties on La Romero and in Sucina so yes their build schedule is normal for them and realistic and they cannpt build without planning permission or obtain the necessary bank guarntees for buyers

Yes they possibly got the land cheaper which is why the prices for the same villas, on La Romero, are €80k - €100k more expensive

Rather than knocking this type on initative I believe that owners should welcome it, it shows investment in growing the resort and villas do represent a different style of opportunity, the fat is that these villas will sell very quickly



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07 Jan 2017 09:32 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 1649 forum posts Send private message

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07 Jan 2017 10:54 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 358 forum posts Send private message

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inspectahome,

Thanks for your pm. I can assure you that I am not an idiot and I do know what I am talking about.

I suggest that you read the community articles of association, especially the ones around allocated quotas for community fees by plot.

I also suggest you look at the community fees on Las Terrazas de la Torre. They are the exact opposite of what you suggest. The vast majority of the fees are contributions to the general community for security, roads, lighting, refuse collection, communal gardening, communal pools etc as defined in the statutes and are legal obligations by plot. The actual costs for block maintenance such as cleaning, lift maintenance, electricity etc are minimal.

With respect to Sun Peninsula, if their track record on blocks 271, 272 and 273 are anything to go by, I wouldn't be holding my breath for a summer completion. I actually do welcome investment on Las Terrazas, unfortunately Sun Peninsula have a history of failing to provide basic things like mailboxes for their properties and expecting the community to pick up the tab.


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07 Jan 2017 12:16 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2348 forum posts Send private message

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As I always try to explain my posts are based on local knowledge and having been The President, twice on 2 start-up communities

All communities are operated under the terms of The Horizontal Property Law which lays down the required framework

When you form a community, you start with the budget, total expected expenditure plus a contingency, then you divide the community into what are called parcela’s, based on size of plot and property, you then divide the fees amongst all of the properties and come up with a rate per single parcela unit, the community fee due is then calculated

In the case of a villa, and this is true for El Valle, Mar Menor, La Torre, Corvera again you start with a budget, which is this case does not include the most expensive items, lift, pool, electricity, water and garden maintenance plus insurance, which it typically 80%  of the costs but will include site costs, security, street lighting, rubbish collection and then calculate the parcela rate, this is often called the Entity Fee.

Because the villa owners will have their own pools, plus gardens which they will maintain and not typically have access to community pools, so there will be no charges but their ongoing maintenance fees, probably €50 per month and of course pay their own costs for water and electricity

The local rates or IBI are again based on the property size and value, again based on experience they should be around €200 a year

So using real examples of larger properties on El Valle, with their own pools, they pay around €60-€70 a month for the Entity services, On Corvera €35, on the Mar Menor €60

Basically it starts form the ACTUAL COSTS to maintain the community and has nothing to do with the community rules, you only pay for the services you use and detached villas have few common services

I hope there is somebody else out there who understands this and can verify what I am saying



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07 Jan 2017 12:30 by newworld Star rating. 870 forum posts Send private message

In a way I think it's a shame they are building villas on this resort, the reason I say this is because when I had a place on la torre golf I was one of the first owners on site, at first apts paid about 50 euro pm, villas paid a few hundred a month it was a joke, anyway when the fees got recalculated the apartments fees where about 80/90 euros pm and villas where about 130/140 pm at the time, it took a couple of years to sort this out, But what happened many family/friends had big fall outs, and even to this day don't speak, because of the apartment owners feel they was ripped off,With this resort being all apts you would have not had all the bitching about different types of property, So get ready it will be coming your way some time soon.




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07 Jan 2017 12:50 by newworld Star rating. 870 forum posts Send private message

Roy I know what you are saying, and I am with 100%, with you, but what I would say Villa owners on la torre CAN use pools along with town house owners as long as they are fully paid up on community fees, Also Villa owners on MMGR2 CAN use pools, but Villa owners on MMGR 1 can NOT use the pools, Also the apartments outside  MMGR  cannot use the pools,  So really many of the Polaris resorts are calculating the fees in different ways and the rules on what owners can and can't do are different from one resort to another.




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07 Jan 2017 12:51 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2348 forum posts Send private message

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Newworld there is a big difference here in the amount of fees compared to La Torre as many villas there don't have their own pools so they setup a community system where the villas owners pay for use of the pools and get armbands which increases the fees compared to somewhere like El Valle or The Mar Menor resorts

It could mean that Terrazes would have to think about an armband system

Also as I tried to explain the villa onwers are actually going to pay more of you take the costs of their own pool and garden maintenance

On Corvera the villas owners paid community fees as all, only an Entity fee of arounbd €150 a year but mt friend on there paid around €1500 a year for pool and garden maintenance and fees

Where I live there is no community so no fees, I have my own pool luckily but my IBI is only €45 a year and now I maintain my own pool as I live here so you can make some BIG savings if you buy away from the resorts

I am sure that you know, regardless of what Duncan says, the bulk on any community budget are the costs for the pools, garden areas, lifts, not just maintenance but running fees

 

 



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07 Jan 2017 12:59 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2348 forum posts Send private message

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Hopefully Newworld I also know that you understand that the fees are not based purely on the zize of the plot and therefore they will not be 4 times the rate for an apartment, as suggested by others, possibly 1.5 times as you have said based on El Valle and La Torre models



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07 Jan 2017 13:22 by newworld Star rating. 870 forum posts Send private message

Personally I could never understand why villas pay what they do when they are on a resort with apts, what do they use, if they can or can't use the pools what other  facilities do they use apart from driving on the roads and the sercurity cost, a pose to apts lifts and pools & gardening cost which take up a massive part of the budget, they have there insurance coved. ( buildings ). Villas buy there own,  I have had a villa and an apartment on La  Torre and the apartment cost  more  manage than a villa, wait for you repainting   quotes to come in on the apartment, scaffolding and cherry picks  it will make your eyes water.

 




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07 Jan 2017 13:53 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2348 forum posts Send private message

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Little strange Duncan how you have edited your post, originally quoted at 4 times the fees to nowso I have to asume that you now undertsnd the system

It is actually the owmers that will ultimately agree the community fees but as a tried and tested model it is fair to asume that they will similar to other resorts

They are building 8 villas on a plot earmarked for 32 apartments. As such I would expect community fees would be 2-3 times higher than those quoted.



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07 Jan 2017 13:55 by chris 2477 Star rating. 57 forum posts Send private message

MMGR and MMGR2 are separate communites, Same as the apartments outside the resort. This is why we can not use the pools on MMGR2.

 

Chris




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07 Jan 2017 15:11 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 358 forum posts Send private message

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inspectahome,

My post was actually edited by an eyeonspain admin after someone reported it because I linked to some factual information. I subsequently edited it to put some of the non-commecial content that was removed back.

Yes, I did change my view of 4 times to 2-3 times in retrospect as I removed block maintenance charges like lift maintenance, painting fund, electricity etc. which are a small but not negligable part of the community fees. I also received updated information that the plots are smaller than I originally thought and there would be 12 villas on a 32 apartment plot (37.5% i.e between 2 and 3 times) as opposed to 8 (25% i.e 4 times)

The fact remains that the vast majority of the community fees are for general contributions to the community budget, not to the block budget. Nobody knows what the fees will be as they haven't been negotiated with the homeowner's community yet. It is a safe bet to say they will not be less than a two bedroom apartment and it is also safe to say they could be 2-3 times higher. Certainly much higher than the agents are claiming

What I think you are missing inspectahome is that villa pools are optional plunge pools, not swimming pools. The villa owners will still be able to use the communal pools around the resort for swimming. The villa owners will also use the roads, street lighting, security services, refuse collection services, be able to take walks in the communal gardens use the commercial centre etc. They will be required by law to pay for these services. 

Like I said, these services make up the vast majority of community fees and are allocated in the articles of association to each plot which is then subdivided by apartment size. The villa owners will be part of the Las Terrazas community and will be required by law to pay the community fees as defined in the articles of association. These villas are being built inside a gated community and will by default have to use the services of the community.

"Basically it starts form the ACTUAL COSTS to maintain the community and has nothing to do with the community rules, you only pay for the services you use and detached villas have few common services" What you are saying is that if I choose not to use the community pool or gardens, I don't have to pay for their upkeep? WRONG! As a member of the Las Terrazas community you are obliged by law to pay for the maintenance of the communal areas. Like I suggested before inspectahome, read the articles of association.

The fees being quoted on the website that I am not allowed to link to are less than most apartments in the community. It is misleading at best, fraudulent at worst to claim that these will be the community fees.


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 07/01/2017.

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07 Jan 2017 16:39 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2348 forum posts Send private message

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The pools available in the villas, depending on the plot sizes are swimming pools it really depend only on the size of the plot and of course, unlike a community pool, are only used by the villa owners

Fact the community budget that you refference is for the community pool and gardens, specific to each phase and they are a large part of the community budget, they are expensive to maintain, not part of the villas budget, the villa oweners will be in their OWN COMMUNITY, like any other block

One community does not pay for another communites pool or gardens, on El Valle villa owners do not pay for the maintenance of the pools attached to the apartments, same on Corvera, same on the Mar Menor, same on RODA, same on Hacienda del Alamo, same on La Manga Club, they all operate under the same rules as Terrazes

The apartment owmers should introduce a wrist band system, as on many other resorts like La Torre and RODA, where only people with bands can use the community pools and security check this in their rounds, it works well, no paid fees, no bands

The villa owners will not be using, or be allowed to use the community pools or the community gardens, as with ALL of the other Polaris resorts that operate, hence the wrist band system on La Torre and they will not be expected to pay for them

Yes they will of course pay for the Entity fees, rubbish collection, street lighting and security, as I explained in my previous posts, there is NO LEVY on any owners for the commercial centre or golf course, these are seperate commercial ventures and there isno law to enforce a charge as you quote, when a community it is a freestanding unit which is why rates vary so much between different communities

Fact the biggest percentage of the community fees, on any development are costs for community pools, gardens, lifts, electricity, water cleaning of blocks, insurance and administration fees, the villa owners will not have any of these charges.

The Entity fees, security, rubbish collection, roads, street lighting common gardens, rubbish are less than 20% of your budget and are low especially, when spead across so many properties, also the commecrial operators have to pay part of these costs

The fees being quoted are correct, not misleading or fraudalent, but based on the actual levels of expenditure and budget, based on the facts from ALL of the other similar developments where the system works and I suggest you read the articles on Horizontal Property Law, to get a better understanding of this

Please remember this is 8 villas which will sell quickly and it is the community of owners that set the fees and a problem with apartments, especially on Polaris Resorts have been the historical debt left by the original developer on empty properties, which has increased the community fees

I also suggest that you look again at your actual budget to get a true breakdown of fees

 

 

 

 

 


This message was last edited by inspectahomespain on 07/01/2017.


This message was last edited by inspectahomespain on 07/01/2017.

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07 Jan 2017 18:46 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 358 forum posts Send private message

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Like i keep saying inspectahome, read the articles of association. Las Terrazas is not Mar Menor, El Valle or La Torre. They all have different articles of association.

You are quoting things that you claim are facts which are completely factually incorrect.

I don't need to look again at the accounts and budgets, I am a block president and am intimately aware of exactly what is spent on what and what the rules are with respect to my block's responsibilities for the general upkeep of the community overall.

If the villa owners won't be using the communal facilities, why are the agents presenting the communal pools, gardens and children's play areas in their marketing blurb? Descriptions of shops, restaurants and bars? Are they building some more?

We all know property agents will say anything to get cash from unsuspecting buyers. The reality is, the community fees on these villas will be much higher than they state and the facilities that they describe are paid for and maintained by the community fees that you claim they won't have to pay.


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 07/01/2017.

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