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Terrazas de la Torre Golf Resort forum threads
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07 Jan 2017 19:14 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2357 forum posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

Duncan they are not, a new community on a development create their own rules with the proviso that they must adhere to the terms under the Horizontal Property Law, you cannot LEGALLY force any comunity to pay for facilities that they don't use

There are 2 elements the Entity and the communities and this has already been clarified by the developers when they indicate the fees

You have gone initally saying it will be 4 times based on the plot sizes, onto 2 times, saying that they have to contribute towards the cost of the commercial facilities. and other pools and gardens

As I have tried to explain this is like saying that people on say phase 1 have to pay for the 2 pools on phase 2, and why different phases pay a different rate of community fees

You really don't know what you are talking about here especially as I know that ALL of the articles of association for ALL of the Polaris sites are the same, drawn up by the same lawyers amd if you are so vertain please publsih here the exact condition that justifies your belief, you are going to struggle

This is a NEW COMMUNITY



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07 Jan 2017 19:50 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 360 forum posts Send private message

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inspectahome,

A new community on Phase 12 of an existing community. What an interesting concept. The villas are being built on a plot of land in Phase 12 adjacent to the communal phase 12 swimming pool. Are you suggesting that the villa owners who don't go for the optional plunge pool won't be able to use the communal swimming pool on their doorstep?

All existing phases, 1, 2, 5 and 12 are part of the overall Terrazas de la Torre community and yes, owners on Phase 1 do pay for the upkeep of pools on phase 2 and vice versa. All owners pay for the upkeep of the lakes. They are community facilities usable by any owner on any phase. Any owner can stroll in the gardens on Phase 1, walk, jog or cycle the paths alongside the golf course on Phases 2 and 12, enjoy the lakes at La Isla and of course use any of the communal pools.

Are you suggesting that villa owners will be prisoners on their own plots, unable to enjoy the facilities that the resort has to offer? Personally, I don't want an exclusive community at Las Terrazas. Currently all owners are equal and able to enjoy all the facilities that the resort has to offer.

All existing properties are bound by the rules of the articles of association as are any new builds on the resort like blocks 271 and the newly completed 272 which were built by the same developer on Phase 2.

Like I keep saying inspectahome, read the articles of association. You do realise that the articles of association are the legal agreement which defines how the horizontal property law is applied to the plots of land at Las Terrazas don't you?

LOL at the "you really don't know what you are talking about" comment. The articles of association for Las Terrazas are not the same as those for La Torre or Mar Menor. newworld and chris 2477 have already told you this, as have I. I don't need to publish them, they are available on the internet. I have however sent the relevant articles by PM.

You claim that community fees have been agreed between the developers and the community of owners. Not that I am aware of. Please publish or even reference anything that you might have that indicates that the villas are a standalone community other than your insistence.

Interesting concept with no basis in reality I am afraid. One I am sure that someone who will be paying €300k+ for a villa on a luxury golf resort will not be too happy with. Prisoners on their 150m2 plot? They will want to enjoy the resort facilities and they will have to contribute to their upkeep.


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 09/01/2017.

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08 Jan 2017 09:36 by chris 2477 Star rating. 57 forum posts Send private message

I did not say the articles of association are different for our resorts. I said we are separate communities. On MMGR2 villa owners are alowed to use the apartment pools.They are issued wristbands as well. So within their community fees they pay for the maintenance of the pools.I can go and walk around both resorts and wander through the communal gardens but i can not use the communal pools. We have playgrounds and an exercise route that any one can use regardless of what community they are from. The roads are also public.So we can not stop people entering.  ( in the beginning of this resort the articles of association said it was a private resort) I would not be surprised if yours said the same? Our street lighting is paid through our IBI tax. Our rubbish collection is paid in our private water bills. I am sure over time your resort will go the same way.MMGR was completed in 2005, it has only been in the past few years that the council have taken over responsibility of parts of the resort that we were told by Polaris were private. When your resort is complete these things will happen there too. 

Over the years the more mature Polaris World resorts have realised that these articles of association were heavily weighted in Polaris favour and not entirely legal. One prime example was that Polaris would have one of their employees as community president for 5 years. This goes against the horizontal property law so is ilegal. There are court proceedings happening with the town council over what they agreed or not agreed to take responsibility for on these resorts.This is going to go on for many years. For many years the council refused to pay the street lighting even though the roads are public.This will happen to terrazes.

 

Chris




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08 Jan 2017 10:02 by DuncanMcG Star rating in Manchester, UK. 360 forum posts Send private message

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Hi Chris,

Separate communities, separate rules defined in separate articles of association. Our street lighting is not paid for by our IBI. Our rubbish collection is not paid for via water bills. They are both paid for by community fees. As are the maintenance of the lakes, roads, trees, hedges etc etc.

Let's cut to the chase here as the general thrust of my original post is being lost in some obfuscating arguments.

There is a proposal to build new villas in the Las Terrazas de la Torre community. The articles of association have not been amended to define what the rights and responsibilities of these villa owners are. Whether thay can use the communal pools or not, how much they have to contribute to the general community costs such as street lighting, security, maintenance of the common areas such as the lakes, pools and gardens etc.

The advertising blurb for these villas is quoting "approximate" community fees for a 3 bedroom villa which are less than those of a 2 bedroom apartment on Las Terrazas yet claiming the owners will have full access to all facilities at Las Terrazas de la Torre including the communal pools and children's play areas.

I am pointing out to potential owners that the fees are more than likely to be higher than claimed, perhaps significantly higher.

Inspectahome is poo-pooing this based on what he thinks should happen and is making it up as he goes along rather than basing his arguments on reality. Clearly he is trying to sell a rosy vision in order to capture his agent's fee. Villa owners can enjoy all the facilities at Las Terrazas but won't have to pay for them. All they need to do is declare themselves as a separate community.

Really? Sounds great. Almost too good to be true eh? I'll need to do that for my block. Have a Terrexit poll. Declare independence from the Las Terrazas Community and then trigger article 50 and renegotiate terms with the community. Oh, slight problem, there is no article 50 in the Terrazas Homeowners articles of association.

laugh

I am trying to point out to potential owners that once they have put down their deposits and inspectahome has galloped off into the sunset with his commission in his back pocket, they may just find they have an unexpected liability that they will need to find cash for.....


This message was last edited by DuncanMcG on 09/01/2017.

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10 Jan 2017 21:34 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2357 forum posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

Because I have been working the weekend and because I has given it al of the informatation to my lawyersexpert in community law, tand I have  had some feedback today but I am getting it in writing. Bcause I am selling these villas for me it was vital to get proper, proffesional, qualified, legal advice

Basically as I explained the laws that relate to community fees are governed by the terms of The Horizontal Property Law which are the default law so regardless of local regulations this overides everything

In this case they have confirmed, as I explained, that the villa owners can and will  a new comnuity ,their own community with their only commitement is pay towards the Enitiy fees, rubbish collection, street cleaning and security, not towrads anything connected to the blocks. I have noticed that there is an agent including commuity pools in their advertising, one agent who I understand has to chage their listing, the excuse was that they just cut an pasted the normal advertisment

So no Duncan as you pm'd me I had not gone quite, just a delay while things were checked properly as a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, never guilty of that

By he way they have also given me the ACTUAL breakdown of the Entity element, the garden areas for example on the roundabouts, the street lighting, security, rubbish collection and they estimate it as 26% of the total budget paid in each community, the bulk of the fees paid are for the COMMUNITY POOLS BY PHASE, GARDENS ON BLOCKS, LIFTS, BLOCK CLEANING, INSURANCE, WATER & ELECTRICTY

Duncan as you have such good contatcts with the Presidents as you PM'd me about ask them for the ACTUAL figures, after all they are lay people or better perhaps to ask your administrators, which is where my numbers came from

I still find it amazing that something potentially so positive for the maturity and development of the resort is made to look so negative and just to add NOWHERE on any of the advertising for these vlllas, on 1o different agents websites does it mention access to community pools adn even underground parkiing, which definatley isn't part of the specification, their mistake

No galoping away, been here a long time now and plan to continue, hence the work with the lawyers

 


This message was last edited by inspectahomespain on 10/01/2017.


This message was last edited by inspectahomespain on 10/01/2017.


This message was last edited by inspectahomespain on 10/01/2017.

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Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748


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11 Jan 2017 08:13 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2357 forum posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

As I always try to explain the advice and information, that I post on here is based on real-time practical experience, I have lived here 13 years now, have seen the good and bad times and I am still here, posting and for somebody to say all that I am interested in is the commission while I gallop off into the sunshine inferring that I am some dodgy estate agent, I am not

The English unfortunately have an island mentality, in the early days people git most upset because they had been told that they bought on a private gated community and I have heard it, I know that some people would be happy if is was their private course, only used by owners, the bars only for the owners and a fact of life is that these facilities can only survive if the attract business from inside and outside the resorts, which is why places like Si Bar La Manga, The Spaniards Inn on Hacienda and The Hotel on Mar Menor spend so much money advertising for local customers

Golf courses are public facilities, they rely on public play, societies and not well known is that the perimeter roads on any courses, the gardens etc are public facilities, they have to be. The Police patrol them and you cam for example if you are driving be prosecuted for speeding or drink driving. One of the major arguments on Corvera was that the village use the resort as a country park, the children using the play parks, the exercise equipment and it was checked and LEGALLY they can, same as legally they can on Terrazas, in fact if people are encouraged to use the onsite facilities it will allow the resort to grow and develop

If you are lucky enough to go to a Spanish fiesta in a village they welcome all, they don't charge you for the beer or Pallela, they will welcome you with open arms

What a silly statement One I am sure that someone who will be paying €300k+ for a villa on a luxury golf resort will not be too happy with. Prisoners on their 150m2 plot? They will want to enjoy the resort facilities and they will have to contribute to their upkeep. As I have been at pains to explain they will, like on every other resort be expected to pay for the Entity facilities just not the pools and gardens attached to blocks which they will not have to use

Not everybody wants to buy a 2-bed apartment, some people want their own space and rather than being so negative about this development owners should be welcoming it, more people using the resort should be a positive, here’s an idea let them build more apartments there and have them sitting empty like the 30 available in block 273 from €82.500, because that will really help the resort grow

 

 



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Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748


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11 Jan 2017 12:24 by newworld Star rating. 871 forum posts Send private message

Roy how much are these villas and how many beds, the reason i am asking this is because the villas on MM2 2 BED Rondelas have been for sale for a long time many have been sold, but there are still some left these are priced  at under 130k and i am not puting any resort but the MMGR has a lot more to offer than most resorts, so these new villas might be slow to sell, just a thought ?




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11 Jan 2017 15:43 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2357 forum posts Send private message

Vip Supporter

These are new build modern designed villas, 3 bed 2 bath on around 250sq mt plots and very similar t thise being built in Lo Pagan, open plan, big kitchens, under floor heating,lots of glass and much better on energy compliance

It is not fair to compare these with the Rondella which as you know are the older design with smaller plots but I do agree about the comments in the resorts which is why they are building the same villas on Mar Menor 2, starting price €345k

As I have explained before it isn' primarly britsih people that buy this type of property, mainly it attracts people from Belgium, Norway and Sweden, which is why they build them

 

 



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Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748


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11 Jan 2017 15:47 by newworld Star rating. 871 forum posts Send private message

OK thanks for the reply.




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