ANDERSONS CLIENTS - COURT PROGRESS

Re. Huma's assets at MCC.

All Huma have on MCC are the office block, a few unsold properties (max. 15), and a lot of land that has 'planning permission'.  You must ask yourself what such land is worth in Spain at the moment.

The restaurant/swimming pool complex is owned by another member of the family.

My understaning of the family behind HUMA are that they are well thought off highly respectable citizens in the Mazzarron area who would not want to see there flag ship complex MCC and there offices etc go under.  It would lower their personal standing in the community - I believe they will try to keep HUMA afloat as long as possible.  They are probably cash short (allthough not neccesary asset short) and will do everything possible to delay repayment of our monies.   They probably are in the position to repay individual claims but know they cant repay everyone back.  They therefore are delaying every repayment as much as possible.  This has two positives to them 1) Increase there cash flow, 2) Persuades more people to transfer to OCC therefore increasing there cash flow and reducing the immedaite claims against them.  The real problem as I see it is what will happen when the Andersons joint claim hits the court.  I dont know how many people were making this claim but think it was in the redion of 50 - surely this will be when HUMA will go bust?

As to the BBC report - how does this help us?  It surely just makes HUMA  reputation worse therby reducing the number of possible sales of properties they make decreasing their cash flow and worsening the chance of us getting our money back.

Good point.

But we have to consider property has always increased in the long term throughout most of the world and been an excellent investment at the height of any boom.

To buy land with permission at the time of a boom when everyone wants land - it is at it's most expensive, then this land becomes a very very valuable asset - so that is why Huma are holding on to it no doubt currently - though you are right if it all folded - I wonder what the liquidators would get for it?

However, Huma seem to be reluctant to put Huma Med... SL into receivership and are still going ahead with OTCC and so we must live in hope.

Also somewhere there is hidden away up to 40 million Euros of ACC deposits and installments and I do not think the costs of ACC land and small building costs to date or the land at OTCC has spent all that cash. There have been few refunds to date and so most of that still should be somewhere in the Group finances. However I wonder if the Banks can claim the BG refunds back off Huma - as the site was illegal - that would sting Huma and make us vulnerable - but no doubt they ignore them just like us!

Of course this all assumes that our money is not in a Subiela Swiss bank account.

Who knows?

John

I would say the banks must be able to claim the moneis back from HUMA - as the banks in paying out on a bank guarantee they have paid a liability of HUMA therefore HUMA will become a creditor of the bank.  I would expect the bank would take the money straight from any accounts HUMA have with them.  If HUMA dont bank with that particular bank then I would expect them to take legal action against HUMA to reclaim the monies owed.

As to the monies that HUMA have from us I expect it to be a lot less than 40 million euros.  I believe (allthough not sure) that HUMA were paying people back quite easliy early on as soon as the 2 year period finnished.  They obviously thought at that stage that planning permission was going to be a formality and they would be able to sell the properties on at a higher price.  I believe they stopped paying people back about June time last year.  If you take into cosiderastion the number of people whohave got their money back via a bank guarantee (or at least a part of it back) I think the number of people owed their money is substantially less than the original number of units sold.  If you then take into consideration the cost of the land at Almanzora, the several hundred half completed units, the costs of keeping cranes there for 2 years not being used, penalty clauses for breach of contract with the builder, admin costs and back handers as well as losses due to the credit crunch I think HUMA will have a lot less than 40 million euros.  

It would be interesting to know how many people are still owed a repayment from ACC and how much.

I think Nigela has a valid point,  how many buyers have still not recived
a refund,  dont want a swop to MCC or OCC and are fighting for their
money back,   we would then know  haw many of us are in the same boat
and what deposits Huma are holding .

Would an poster like to make up a list?,  if so start with me £ 40.000
being held for a deposit on a Tarifa.

 I would approach the ACC owners club but they ignore me for calling Huma conmen,  or are the ACC owners club really just Humas owners club?????????????.

Julias' e mail address is juliaberg@qsmedia.tv for Trudge and anyone else who wishes to contact her.

Our first solicitor ( the one in collusion with Huma ) always told us that our stage payments were held in a separate account at the bank and was not accessible  to Huma until our property was handed over on completion. If this were true, then surely our money should have been readily available to us when it became clear that our house was never going to be completed within the timescale on our contract. I am no lawyer, but to me we should have been able to get our money back without having to endure court proceedings. So the question is,  if our money is not in the bank ( the bank that gave us the guarantee ) then -- where is it ??  

Thanks tez mayne
 I will email her hope fuly get some help because we all need it.Let you no what happens.

Just sent Julia an email regarding my brother. He is one of poor sod's who were took in by Parador and handed over £35k for a property on Almanzora Country Club over 4 years ago. Unfortunately, he doesnt have the funds to launch legal action against HUMA etc and is stuck.
Good luck to everyone, and of anyone can suggest a course of action then it would be appreciated!

Cheers

Darren

I have emailed Julia today.

Just for the record - I am owed 100k Euros with no BG - as I have stated before.

I still believe the extent of this problem is  ....


1800 units sold (we bought in October 2005 and told it was virtually all sold) - lets say 1500 (probably too low) - as some people did not pay beyond the deposit - but they are few and far between.
Lets say 2% have refunds (who knows?)
Lets say 2% went to MCC
Lets say 2% have actually signed for OTCC (I believe many have only reserved not actually signed contracts)
Lets say 30% of payments are covered by BG's and half have their money back.
Lets say £30k is the average deposit/installments paid (probably too low)

Then the gross taking for ACC £45million

Refunds  21%   =  £9.5 million

Amount owing £36million approx

..................................

Ok lets loook at another scenario with all those figures doubled for refunds - still £26 million owed.

................................

I would think the truth is somewhere between £20-£30million depending on the BG's - which I cannot get a feel for - how many people do not have a BG at all and how many have only BGs for part payments.

If you take the 3k deposits alone - they add up to 5million Euros for the site and few people are getting those back!

The interest on £30m is around £2m per year and they have had that money for 3-5 years now!  .. so interest is £5-£10m to date.

.............................

This is the truth - and I believe there are many people that just cannot afford to take Huma to court and therefore are in serious trouble of having no chance of getting their money back.

...........................

Happy Xmas Huma and another prosperous new year on our money!


John

Well estimated John, I don't think you can be far wrong with those figures. Did you send them to Julia, as I am sure that will help our cause when she realises the amounts involved?

I have also had another idea, the agents we used were members of FOPDAC, the overseas developers agents in the UK, formed to protect people like us. However, they ceased dealing with overseas property in early 2007 and most agent transferred to the AIPP. When I contacted them some time ago, they told me that because our agents only joined them in Feb 2007, they couldn't help. i have e mailed them again today to request a complaint form as I beleive the cover should be ongoing, no matter who the agents were with before. Whether they accept that is a different story, but it is worth a try anyway.

Why don't we all bombard them with complaints, provided of course the agents people bought through are members. If they are, the logo should be on the agents brochures etc. If you type in AIPP in your search engine it will come up with them on the first page. Their e mail address is mailto:enquiries@aipp.org.uk

We have to do all we can to get a result.

We have 62000 Euros outstanding, plus interest and costs so far.

Linda

This message was last edited by tez mayne on 10/19/2008.

I have in fact emailed the figures to Julia.

I have tried AIPP and they said Parador were not members in 2005 when I purchased.

However Parador UK is now dead - so that route is closed for us.

Best regards

John

 

 

Ok john lets look at it another way.

In connection with the people who had bank guarantees I thought it was mainly the ones that bought after May 2005 who didnt have a bank guarantee.  I believe that the bank guarantees were coming in about 3 months after the monies were paid over and only the later purchasers didnt get their guarantees.  We paid out 62000 euros in July 2005 and did not receive a guarantee.  I think most people who bought a month before us received their guarantees.   Also I spoke to an agent in August 2006 who said that all his clients had got a refund and that the solicitors he used could get me a refund (stupidly I didnt take his advice and change solicitors at that time).   I think it was only about May 2007 that HUMA stopped paying people back.  On that basis I think many more than 2% of people will have had there money back.  My gut feeling is that of the original 1500 sold about 200 would have had a refund.   I think of the 1300 left probably 800 would of had bank guarantees leaving about 500 without a BG.  Of these about 40 would have transferred to MCC and the same to OCC leaving about 420 people with no BG.  As an average (excluding commission, IVA (which presumably has been paid over) solicitors fees,) I would say 40,000 euros per property - giving 16.8 million euros!  Still a lot of money but take of the cost of building at ACC ( I dont know how many units were 1/2 built but say 400) at say 10,000 euros each - the balance now at 12.8 million.  Take of cost of the land - no idea but must be 2 to 3 million (say 2.8) - now down to 10 million.  Now take of costs to the builder for breach of contract - any one guess but on a project this size it could run into millions.  Now think about payments to mayors etc - could be 1/2 million.  Then there would be legal costs involved in trying to get proper planning for ACC.  Then MCC residents took HUMA to court and won and a large sum of money had to be paid into the courts to built the golf course at MCC (I berlieve this was in the millions of euros).   Normally when a builder starts a new project a high proportion of the capital will come from the previous project.  So OCC land etc will have been bought from the funds received from ACC owners.  I have no idea how much we are left with but by the time you including HUMAs general running costs I think you can see there wont be a great deal left.  Maybe a million or 2.

I hope I am totally wrong but my gut reaction is that HUMA have funds but no where near enough to pay everyone back.

Hi thanks for Julias address Ive emailed her .Fingers crossed we might get some justice i'll let you no if i hear anything.

Nigela

Thanks for your input. Excellent! With better information - your estimates might be more realistic.

I think Huma would have made a mint on MCC (in the boom years) and that provided the finance for ACC and they were still selling properties (which I thought were overpriced) on MCC in 2008 (especially to poor ex ACC clients).

So I dont dispute most of your figures - but I think they have more money put away somewhere due to profits at MCC.

However, I  do agree wholeheartedly they do not have enough money to refund everyone (especially if the Banks have claimed refunds from Huma for BGs repaid). If the Banks had to stand the BG's themselves - then there may be more money).

I think it is important that everyone presses their solicitors to act asap - while Huma are still solvent and possibly capable of repaying.

I cannot see how people without legal action will ever get their money back?

I still distrust Huma over OTCC - but we will see what transpires in the next 2 months - BGs or no BGs - properies actually going up - not just roads!

John

 

 

What we really could do with is an up to date set of accounts for HUMA.   Their balance sheet and Profit and loss account would be interersting reading.  Also is it possible to get a credit rating for HUMA?  This may tell us something.  Anyone any ideas?

We bought in June 2005 and had 1 bank guarantee which we cashed in Nov 2007.

We are exposed to the tune of 27K Euros inc 3005 euro deposit and legal expenses.

Also the agents get paid when 40% has been made in stage payments. I am led to believe Parador were on 20-25% commision of purchase price a big chunk of the 18.6Million

We bought in May 2005 yet never received a BG for any of our stage payments. Has anyone tried to sue the agents if they are UK based, as well as Spain? 

I think that if we don't get anywhere with Huma, that will be the next course of action for us. Trouble is its just more and more money being paid out and no solution in sight. Where do you draw the line?

Nigela

This is a PM I got from  ILostMySensaHuma back in July (sorry if I have pulished this without  his/her permission) - so you could pursue the info sites below...

He suggested use    www.einforma.com   but I do not speak Spanish.

/18/2008 11:22:00 PM ILostMySensaHuma Sent to: johnfozard

Hi John I've downloaded what I can for free from www.einforma.com. Plenty to be going on with including sales figures but no accounts - you have to pay for that! Venta de Iniciativas looks like it is 100% owned by Parador Properties UK There were some details pubished on the BORME (Spain's equivalent of companies' house I think) which shows someone called Ana Ferrer Fuster becoming empowered (Apoderado) in the company.  I thought the Fuster name sprang off the page!

I was sent some concise accounts for Huma Med sent by ILostMySensaHuma  - I will see if I can dig them out - but there was no Balance Sheet as far as I could see and of course the accounts were from a year end a couple of years ago. We really need to know the current situation.

If Spain is like the UK - you have 9 months to register accounts after the end of the financial year - so in this climate a lot changes in 9-21 months, depending on their year end date.

There was some other info I was sent I will try and dig out on their credit status.

I think it needs a fluent Spanish speaker to find and buy the company info needed off the internet - I am sure it is there if you can google in Spanish.

I for one would be happy to share any cost incurred (and I would hope others would) if you went ahead and purchased information.

One thing you would have to be careful of - has Mr Subiela hidden our cash away somewhere and it appears in no accounts of any company we know about?

John

Nigela

Send me a PM with your personal email and I will send you a copy of Huma company information sent to me relating to 2006.

John