the uk gov. stealing money off the poorest

D_B_S posts "Prehaps it's about time the UK stopped some of the other universal benefits that thoes over 60 choosing to live offshore have such as winter fuel allowance."

I couldn't agree more. I think they should stop everything. And at the same time as they chop us off  from any of the entitlements that we've chipped in for with our taxes over the years, perhaps they could then keep their thieving fingers off whatever we earn in the future. What possible justification can the UK govt have to demand  a slice of any rent money we might get paid? Or capital gains if we sell some shares? Or death duties if we die? Oh no, suddenly we're UK domiciles, and they want their share.

Wow! Cm’on guys, let’s not run amuck with this issue.   haydngj is not being accused of anything but rudeness to Trish who is a prolific and respected contributor to this site.  There is no suggestion that he or his wife, is a benefit cheat, nor should there be.  Even those of us who are retired have to pay taxes to support those on benefits and naturally there is a lot of steam generated by the issue when the last Government handed out our money with such largesse to many who were not entitled in order to win votes.  But as haydngj says, his wife is disabled, which we must take at face value and dealing that situation is something that we all dread, so let’s have some respect all round. 

My wife made the last post from us and I agree with her entirely, but let’s not make this a witch hunt.

Mike

GuyT, As a non-dom that choses to live in Dubai, and maintain houses in the UK and Spain (currently Barcelona but shortly to move to Mallorca), I abide by all local rules, tax  and laws. Certainly I am happy to pay relevant taxes in UK and Spain to support the people that most need the support of the respective governments. I'm the first to recognise that all of us has not been born equal and each of us needs to take the opportunities and make a contribution.  Afterall I was born into a small town in Western Australia -- and they don't get much insular than that -- but had the great opportunity through study and hard work to attend Oxford Uni on a scholoship and then work in the City of London. I know I have taken the opportunities made available to me by the UK and now think of it as my Country. 

Suggest if you really have problems over tax as a non-dom, and are not being fully supported by your current tax advisers you change the ASAP. If you email me direct i can recommend a good firm.

All I would like is all others both successful and not so to abide by the laws of the country we live or come from.

D

Tish may not have meant to suggest my wife was a benifit cheat but it cetainly came over to me as that,saying that benifit cheats are ripping the uk off.she never mentiond the cheats that have been found out but are still on the gravey train  m.ps  bankers  etc.who are still at large. Do we need  600 plus mps? thanks to the bankers  we are in the mire now. pay them all they want they are the beast [sorry best] at their job????

hope she never has to want. We live in  small two bedroomed appartment which is ideal for my wife  with a lift to the door  and no steps to climb.The health service is very good here, my worry now is will the goverment clamp down on that.I do not have the means to return to the uk. 

 why did we join the eu but we did and the bits we don't like we ignore

am I on more stoney ground?

Are any of you going to defend the bankers? I do hope so

Are any of you going to defend the mps  and their cheating the expenses? I do hope so.

Will any of you make a case as to why they still carry on as before?

haydngj -- there are chips and trees, I think you have a forest on both your sholders.

Good luck  to you and yours -- It looks like you against the world.

D

I I cannot see the problem with people claiming benefits when they retire regardless of what country they chose to retire to providing they have paid sufficient tax and national insurance into the UK during there working lives.

No mention as been made as to the benefits that are paid out in the UK to people who have not paid a penny into the system,it must cost our country millions.

Cant defend any of those losers- and wouldnt want to. That isnt the issue you are dealing with haydngj. You can shout frustration to the moon but it wont assist your situation. All you can focus on is ensuring that you meet the requirements of the DLA and then you will be entitled to the correct benefits.Uniess they have changed the rules- which doesnt apear to be the case it just seems you are now spending too many days in Spain to be eligible.

Some rules dont appear fair but as long as they exist all you can do is work within them.  I would save your energy and focus on applying for those benefits that still apply to you. You say in your first post something about being in Spain more than the UK so maybe you may need to alter that ratio to achieve the right level of benefits.

Anyone who knows me would say I'm big on rules- I can never quite see why some people think rules dont apply to them, thats just arrogance. So, I'd say take advice and appeal the ruling, provided you meet their requirements.

As for the gvt stealing from the poor- I'd say they really dont care, poor or rich they'll find a way to prise it from you.

Thank  you Quiet man  you do come over as an understanding  and fair minded man.

I did look into all the prose and cons  when moving to the warm country and was advised that as we had joined the  eu  we would be part of it all through, as it seems now I was slightly misled.

The thing that upset me was the idea that all on beifit were scroungers,thats how it came accross to me otherwise why state it the reply Tish made perhaps  and it does seem so now she never meant  that my wife was a cheat.

D.B.S  I don't have a chip on my shoulder  or anywhere else  I am in general content with the lot I have earned

Adno, they are my sentiments  exactly.

Tish I hope we can be understanding with one another. I admire those that have worked hard for what the have and do not  begrudge them anything. I do get annoyed  when the tax dodgers get away with it, I have known plenty who just laugh  at the system, and I am very sorry I made that point when replyiny to your post thus implying that you and yours were in that cattagory

To me it's quite simple,

•  remove benefits from those that are  too idle to work, (I say this as someone who has a Brother in Law who has never done a days work in his life but lives in a very nice Council house where he plays with his playstation all day laughing at us poor mugs who go out to work)
• prosecute and imprison anyone claiming anything that they are not entittled to
• means test EVERY benefit..particularly what are now universal benefits like Child Allowance..I know people have issues with this, but if you want the Government i.e. the taxpayer to give you money, sureley you should have to proove that you need it
• Use the savings from the above to help those who need it  such as (but not limited to)  people with disabilities etc

Basically stop giving OUR money to, crooks and cheats,  to those who can't be arsed to fend for themselves and to those whose income levels are such that they do not need to be subsidised by the taxpayer, and use  the money  to provide a safety net for those who really need  our help

There are scroungers and genuine hardship cases out there, and the challenge for this or any government is to identify both and deal with them appropriately

 Haydengj,

Thank you for your apology, which I accept.  Your perception of "my lot" in life  was very wide of the mark.  

 There are scroungers and genuine hardship cases out there, and the challenge for this or any government is to identify both and deal with them appropriately

There are far too many benefit cheats for the government to weed out of the system, IMO.  Means testing is also too great a challenge.

It costs a fortune to  raise a child these days and I think this is the last benefit  that should be means tested.  Mind you overpaid footballers don't need it!  Perhaps child benefit should only be paid for two children. Too many people have large families that they cannot afford to allow them to get more benefits, my nephew being one of them!!!  I really don't think there is a fail safe way of  making sure that benefit claims are given to only genuine cases. 

My brother in law is married to an Argentinian. They live in Buenos Aires. They have no benefit system there. Families help one another. 

Thank you Tish very nice of you to accept the apology,compete misunderstanding of the posts caused all the rudeness so sorry

 It happens sometimes, hadyngj.

Do not get me going on the subject of benefits, I have worked for 37 years and last year found myself redundant through the credit crunch. I applied for job seekers allowance and was put on ' contribution based Jobseekers' as opposed to 'income based Jobseekers' I soon found out that the difference between the two was that I still had to pay  for prescriptions and dentistry, wheras the income based set, usually longer term unemployed did not. Do not ask me the logic behind that! To put the top hat on it I had paid for a all inclusive holiday for my family with money from my salary before I was made redundant, but because I was honest and told them about it, they stopped me 11 days benefit for being out of the country even though I had found my own job, starting when I got back. So in the 3 months I was unemployed in 37 years, they made me pay for prescriptions, dentistry and stopped me money for being out of the country on a prepaid holiday. Maybe if I had a boatload of kids and trundled in from say Somalia they might have put me up in a posh part of London and paid a couple of grand a week housing benefit for me! You could not make a story like that up could you. We have become the skip of the world, taking in everyones crap, while decent hard working people are squeezed like lemons to save a few bob.

There, Rant over. I feel better already sharing that burden.

Dakey

dakey  the question is, does honesty pay?

 we need to know  how to work the system

many do and are told how to by the do gooders

problem is  that there are many with a high  i,q. and very  very lazey

Hi Dakey

You got in a nutshell, the problem with the system in the Uk is that you have generations of familys who have never worked, so any offspring will never work. These familys have studied system so well that they now have NVQs in what and how to claim benifits. Yet all these people can be found in the pub 7 days a week, why are these people getting a way with it for so long!

haydngj

I think you have a good point.  There are indeed many scroungers in all classes and earning brackets. The wealthy ones often hide it better though, or pay others to do their dirty work, but in many cases are ultimately the biggest crooks of all, and command respect from many that's totally out of proportion wilt their actions.  I certainly agree with clamping down on scroungers and the lazy sods who are not willing to contribute, as with tax frauds, loopholes etc, but we shouldn't pretend for one moment that  deception and lies are a working class only disease!   I think most of us just want a caring society that while rewarding those who work hard, looks after the gunuine needy, and clamps down hard on those who abuse the system at every level.

Just to bring this thread back to its beginning Haydengj wrote in his second post:

............I worked for 50 years  and my wife worked untill she was in her 50s and all that time all the taxes were paid by us both so it is not  a free hand out........

I do not know the detail of haydens claim or what his wife's disability is, but my thought is this. 

Hayden and his wife I would guess are in their late 60's or older. A woman is "retired" at 60,  As far as the government of the day may see it is like this.  If his wife's disability prevented her working, then she may rightly have  claimed disability if she met the criteria which she clearly did.  Now that she is retired and living out of the UK  that changes the situation.  They no longer think her disability is allowable. ie. it does not prevent her earning power as she is not working.   If , as Hayden says, she needs help, had they been living in the UK, she may have been eligible for attendance allowance,  But that is very difficult to get to as I know first hand  as my own mother who had chronic Rheumatoid Arthritis from a young age,  needed help  to clothe herself, wash and prepare meals in her 70's.  She was a very proud women and hated asking for help. She found it demeaning to go through all the beaurocracy needed to proove her disability.

Being a tax payer, even at 40% ,entitles us to diddly squat when the going gets tough!

Tish

awful though that must have been for you and your mother and many other genuine people in her position, if there wasn't that beaurocracy, wouldn't many more frauds claim without having to prove their condition?. I think this is part of the problem?, the beaurocracy needed to take every case on its own merit and thoroughly check the ongoing integrity of the claimers would probably render the whole system useless?.  The result being that some genuine people have to go through hoops to get anything, while many cheats prosper through lies and deception.