Writing a new Will

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26 Apr 2017 12:48 by JBymead Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

We have a holiday apartment for a few years in Gran Canaria, while our main residence is in England

We have been putting off the need to have any will and now would like to. But what wording is needed in an English will that has to be added to ensure it also covers our apartment and Spanish bank account. Or do we also need to also have a Spanish will or other document to ensure our wishes and cared out. With Brexit and that we are often reminded that while the Canaries come under Spain they are not technically in the EU. Hence can we do it ourselves with some appropriate wording or do we need a lawyer in UK and or Spain??





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26 Apr 2017 17:12 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

Unless your Will will be very complicated, go to a notary (take your original passport) and tell them what you want, they will complete it and provide an English translation if required by you. 

There is no need to employ a lawyer as he / she will have to take you a notary as only a notary can authenticate the Will, so don’t waste your money.  





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26 Apr 2017 17:27 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Sorry if I missed part of the answer there somewhere but it's something I may have to look into too.  

Does it always mean there should be two wills, one English and one Spanish?   Also do these have to be cross-referred in some way for completeness?  

Perhaps require keeping together in each country (multiple copies or such like). 



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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26 Apr 2017 18:19 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

Whilst one can I believe have just one Will which will cover UK and Spain, from a practical point of view a separate Will for each country makes the most sense and will save official translations and legal representation.   The Wills should state that they apply to just UK or to Spain.  A notary will advise you. 

Whist in UK one gets the original copy of a Will in Spain, just like other legal documents, one gets an authenticated copy known as a 'Copia Simple.'

Of course in UK one can make a Will without legal representation. I believe one can buy a Will form from somewhere like W H Smiths.  I have made my own UK Will for over 45 years.

This is the format:-

This is the last Will and Testament

(which relates only to my assets in UK)

of me:  ……………………………………………………………………………………………….

Of  ……………………………………………………………………………………………………

 

Made this  ………………..  day of …………………………..     in the year of our Lord Two Thousand and …………….

I HEREBY revoke all Wills made by me at any time heretofore.   

I appoint    …….…………………………………………………  of …………………………......

……………………………………………………………………………………………………….

 to be my Executor/s, and direct that all my Debts and Funeral Expen¬ses shall be paid as soon as conveni¬ently may be after my decease.

I GIVE AND BEQUEST.   ……………………………………………………………………………

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

.............................

 

   Signed by the TESTATOR in the presence

      of us, present at the time, who at her

      request, and in his presence, and in the

      presence of  each other,  have subscribed

      our names as witness.

                                        ¬                                          …………………………………                                                                                                      

                 Occupation.         …………………………………..

                                of            …………………………………………………………….

                                                …………………………………………………………….

                                                …………………………………………………………….

                            And            ……………………………………

               Occupation.         ……………………………………………………………

                                  of          …………………………………………………………..

                                                                …………………………………………………………..

                                                                …………………………………

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 26/04/2017.



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26 Apr 2017 20:49 by JBymead Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

Thank you, yes the UK version is easy for just in the UK, we have had dealing in the past with them for now passed away elderly relatives.

It is the Spanish / Canarian property and bank account matter is our concern or as an alternative sell for a token small amount (if possible) to our family now??





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27 Apr 2017 09:19 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

You will need to sell at the 'market price' (based on catastral value) and then you will incur all the usual taxes and charges. 

If you ‘sell’ at under market price, apart from still being surcharged as if you had sold at the market price, the person acquiring may also be liable to gift taxes.

 

Just in passing. I heard of a gay guy who sold 'their' house to his much younger partner so as to avoid inheritance taxes. He paid all the taxes and fees for selling, then tragically the younger partner died, so the older man had to pay the inheritance tax !





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27 Apr 2017 09:48 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Crikey John.   

I suppose we can substitute gay guy for couple, and then take the 'their' out of the grammar marks, that would work better in this Age of Enlightenment eh!

Absolutely spot on about the need to make sure the valuation is unfettered.   Who makes the valuations on the tax liabilities for these?



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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27 Apr 2017 10:05 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

Brian.   I suppose we can substitute gay guy for couple,

 

For those who do not know.    

Married couples get a much tax free allowance.

That is why it is relevant and why I was quoting a actual event.

 

Brian   Who makes the valuations on the tax liabilities for these?

I think I may have missed the point; but AEAT (Agencia Tributaria, 'Hacienda' ) are the tax authority in Spain.





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27 Apr 2017 10:44 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Well.  To try and assist the poster.

If they (the posters) are a same sex couple (as aoposed to a gay guy), investigate the differences in tax liability,  the laws  may still be somewhat backward in the country your transacting.  

Also, (to avoid missing the point), the catastral (as I understand it), is a method of valuing a property for the purpose of tax liability on selling (etc.).  Perhaps look into the method of valuation and how you can obtain fair and independent valuations to make sure you are. 

If you have any useful information for them in this direction John, perhaps share it in a way they can understand it, the 'gay guy' analogy told them nothing about tax a liability and it was pretty offensive imho.  



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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27 Apr 2017 11:14 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

Brian …………    the catastral (as I understand it),

It can be very time consuming to explain all the concepts of  any particular system to those who do already have a basic understanding,  and to make long drawn-out posts attempting to do so is boring for many.

That is one reason I say to those who have a particular question, which they think I may be able to help them with, to contact me by PM.

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 27/04/2017.



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27 Apr 2017 11:31 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Hi jbymead 

try this site for starters and research from there, it may help. 

http://www.yourviva.com/life-in-spain/legal/catastral-explained

 



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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27 Apr 2017 13:50 by JBymead Star rating. 4 posts Send private message

Just for clarity we are a marred husband and wife for over 30 years with children and grandchildren.





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27 Apr 2017 14:15 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

JB  I do hope that post was not inspired by anything I said. 

 

When I post I often try to include something, similar to the subject of the tread, which may be relevant to some readers but who may not be aware of a potential problem. 

I posted about the gay guy so that others, who are either not a married couple or a registered same sex couple, might be aware that leaving anything to a friend / partner or even a blood relative may incur considerable taxes. 

In Andalucía a son or daughter can only inherit around 17,000 euros tax free.   After that they must pay quite a high amount of tax. Each Region has it's own variation on that law so one might want to check their Regional Law.  

 In Spain before one can inherit they must pay the inheritance tax before they can inherit, and inheritance tax in on the beneficiary not, as in UK, on the deceased's estate.


This message was last edited by johnzx on 27/04/2017.



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27 Apr 2017 14:18 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1757 posts Send private message

JBymead

For your own reassurance and certainty I suggest your first port of call is a solicitor in the UK who can provide professional advice with a lot more certainty and clarity than anyone on an anonymous public forum.

I know you said teh UK will is sorted out but double check with a professional

If needs be then do the same next time you are visiting your property in Spain and go see a professional

The last thing you want is confusing or incorrect advice that may put your family at risk.

It may cost you a few quid but it will be money well spent.

 

 



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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27 Apr 2017 15:29 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

Just for clarity we are a marred husband and wife for over 30 years with children and grandchildren.

i hope you meant married JB.    Haha. ( i am too)

tadds correct of course.    Any advice and research you find here should be combined with professional instruction.   

Im interested in the valuation side, being a registered valuer in the UK.  I pick up bits and peices on here about Spain, but no one has a definite answer yet for  me to grasp!



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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27 Apr 2017 16:12 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

I am surprise a Chartered Surveyor might have a problem with that.

It is the equivalent to the rateable value in UK which is multiplied by the current coefficient. There is a link to that page but I will need to speak Spanish to fully understand it.

 

Take a look here:-

http://www.velascolawyers.com/en/fiscal-law-and-taxation/catastro-cadastral-value-implication-revision-2016.html

 

This is an extract:-

 

Current coefficients may be found in the Order of 18th July 2016 (Official Bulletin Junta de Andalucia); they are periodically updated, depending on the year the cadastre value is revised by the administration and other factors, such the property market.   See here:-  http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/agenciatributariadeandalucia/normativa/Orden_18-07-2016_Coeficientes%20Urbana.pdf





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27 Apr 2017 16:31 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

The valuation of the property we were talking about seemed to be a matter of a sale of the property, one person buying from another?    I understand that to be the matter the poster was enquiringly about.  The reference to selling it within the family for a cheaper amount seems to confirm that?   

The matter of rateable value of a property has nothing to do with the valuation of the property, aside from the property being of a certain size, type, location and contribution to a local tax revenue stream (a way of determining the tax due for a household in a region).

 The coefficient table will be an index linked type of sum to add to the rateable calculation I presume?   

So I'm still looking for some further information but I will have a look st the links when I get chance, thanks   

 



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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27 Apr 2017 16:45 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

Brian  The matter of rateable value of a property has nothing to do with the valuation of the property,

(Not sure how I can say this again without making it seem so obvious). 

AEAT (the Spanish Tax Office) use the cadastral value, multiplied by the appropriate coefficient to establish the actual (market) value of a property.

Thus,  if one shows a lower value on an Escritura than that figure, Hacienda will probably impose a surcharge and a bill for the amount of taxes underpaid as a result of the incorrect value being declared,  and almost certainly a fine.





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27 Apr 2017 16:58 by briando55 Star rating in Yorkshire. 2004 posts Send private message

That's ok John, you can say it as many times as you like, perhaps if you say it louder it may become true, you never know. 

The valuation of a property has nothing to do with what a taxman or tax office says, if a taxman uses all manner of fancy calculations to say your house is worth a million euros, and then you find you can only achieve half a million, try and find a coefficient table to charge them the difference John.   See what they say!

i really don't understand why it's giving such a problem for you John, perhaps the best advice for anyone in future is to tell them to check with a professional and research an independent valuation for the property   

If I was qualified in Spain I may be more able to provide exact advice, but I'm not, so I simply say research certain areas and seek correct answers.   

I would tell anyone to exercise caution when someone in the forum arena provides advice as fact  

Please don't cut and paste my words back to me, it's like your prodding a finger st me and trying to bully, no need for it   

 



_______________________

Best wishes, Brian

 




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27 Apr 2017 17:31 by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5119 posts Send private message

OK.   Last try.  

 

 QUOTE from yet another of the numerous professional web pages which say the same:

http://www.essentialmagazine.com/marbella-legal-cadastral-values/

In the Land Registry, each property receives a valuation, called its ‘cadastral value’. The latter amounts to at least 50 per cent of the estimated market value of a property; it is the basis for calculating numerous taxes, including inheritance tax, wealth tax, the small plus valía tax and, more importantly, personal income tax on second properties of residents in Spain, and on properties of non-resident physical persons in Spain.

 

If one goes to a lawyer, notary etc. and asks what the lowest market value is, which can be declared on a sale, or what is the value of the property for inheritance tax declarations, they will take the Cadastral Value,  multiply it by the appropriate coefficient,  and that will be the value of that property,  accepted by AEAT. (Hacienda).

It is also the base figure used when completing form 210 (imputed tax on second home).

 

 

See also post by Maria  09 Apr 2017 13:17

 


This message was last edited by johnzx on 27/04/2017.



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