How can you try and work out which agent actually has the direct listing?

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09 Mar 2015 20:37 by manyarna Star rating in the UK- Heart is in .... 59 posts Send private message

It may not sound that important to some but when we viewed a property recently with an agent that told us he had keys ( so we assumed he was the direct listing ie the actual agent that had taken the instructions, done the photos and was in direct contact with the seller.) When we arrived at the area we then met with another agent whom they said they work with who then proceeded to drive us to another one to actually collect the keys..So there are now 3 trying to eat out the commisions which means i have to pay more or the seller gets less or we dont meet, 

They all have the same photos , desciptions etc 

I have now seen something we quite like and would like to view direclty so want to see if anyone has a clever way or ideas of how to find out who really is in touch with the sellers directly ? Its already on multiple sites





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09 Mar 2015 21:28 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

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It is very common in Spain for agents to collaborate and share commissions evenly, not all agents specialise in all areas, some agents don't even list and any bid would always go through the main agent, but this wouldn't normally cost you anymore money, because they are only sharing the commission that has already been agreed with the seller and the sales price is agreed, so you should see the same price on a variety of websites

Often agents specialise inb a close geographical area around their offices so start there, see if there is an agent in that area they may be the main seller, was there a board on the property

Also if you paste the description into Google you might get back the agents selling the property but normally the agent will register the details of the buyer with the other agent but it can be good that agents are able to work together because it often means that the buyers get a much larger selection of properties, rather than going to a single agent who can only push the properties that they have listed

Sometimes even an agent that is not working directly for the seller might be able to push for a better deal, they are detached from the seller but best advice is to look at the local agent's website first
 



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09 Mar 2015 22:34 by manyarna Star rating in the UK- Heart is in .... 59 posts Send private message

thanks for your advices

i havent yet approached any agent on this property so no issue with that and it is multi listed

there is no logical local agent and the closest one dosent even have it listed , most are what i call the larger glossy ones that are internet based ones on the costa del sol. I understand that they share a common databases such as REonline etc hence the multi listings 

My view was that the direct lisiting agent should have some flexibility with there fees if they dont have to share them??  which when you get down to the nuts and bolts of the numbers all helps





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09 Mar 2015 23:01 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

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To be honest I am not sutre that they would want to because typically  these days they are fighting for rates and they have done the marketing and it is the seller that pays, so really you should be deciding what you want to pay for the property, regardless of the listing price and then if it is a percentage not a fixed fee the agents fees will automatically be reduced, 3-5% of the sales price for example is not an unusal fee these days, some agents are aso trying to charge finders fees to the buyers



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09 Mar 2015 23:12 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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My view was that the direct lisiting agent should have some flexibility with there fees if they dont have to share them??  which when you get down to the nuts and bolts of the numbers all helps

It's possible but not likely.

If you did manage to track the listing agent down and buy through them they would still want keep the full commission agreed with the owner, best just try and knock the price down as much as you can. 

Think carefully before you register your interest with any agent because if and when you do they will claim you as their client



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10 Mar 2015 09:53 by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1237 posts Send private message

Manyarna,

Circa 10 years ago a front line duplex came up for sale in the private part of Dona Lola, these very rarely come onto the market. I didn't recognise the agent's name, so I had a look in Viva's window and then in a tiny on site agency window, the agent came out to chat. I aked him about the property and he asked me to leave it with him and to call back later. He was as good as his word and had managed to get hold of the keys, so off we trotted for a viewing.

These were built in the 70's and this one hadn't had a thing done to in the interim years, it even had one of those brick and render sofa's that you put cushions on, yuk. The local agent started to laugh and said, "they want €250,000 for this, the newly renovated ones only go for that much". He told me where the agent's office was and that if I managed to get it down to a reasonable price to come back and see him, but not to sign or pay anything.

This is where the fun started, apparently folk were flying in from every corner of the earth to view it, however if I offered the asking price and paid a €4,000 deposit directly to the agent, he would take it off the market, which I declined to do. A SOLD sign appeared a few days later, so I went for a chat with the on site guy, I said that it looked like I had lost this one, he replied to the effect that I had actually saved myself the loss of €4,000, and that he wouldn't have been surprised if the other agent had taken multiple deposits.

Take care out there.     



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10 Mar 2015 10:12 by starfox Star rating. 58 posts Send private message

Think carefully before you register your interest with any agent because if and when you do they will claim you as their client

 

Good advice and when you do go and see a property never sign any document they may give you to say that you have seen it or to some other effect. Agents are starting to add clauses in the fine print(in Spanish) that if you do sign their document but then go on to purchase the property via another agent or the seller then you are liable to pay the original agents commision. Not too sure how it would hold up but they will try it on.





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10 Mar 2015 12:34 by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1237 posts Send private message

Asking a Spanish property agent about a listing, appears to be about as safe as asking Rolf Harris to child mind your kids.



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10 Mar 2015 14:21 by jon-granada Star rating. 30 posts Send private message

In future, you could also insist that they only show you properties for which they have the direct listing.

This will mean more visits to different agents to see all the properties in the area, but it may be better to do it that way just in case you find 2 properties you like, in different agents, then you can negotiate harder with 2 agents against each other vs 1 agent knowing your negotiating tactics and you having to do everything with that 1 agent.

eg. if you are dealing with a single agent, and put in a v. low offer on one house, which is rejected, then do the same with others, the agent could just instruct the owner(s) to reject the first offer as there will be a better one along the way.  With multiple agents, you get them to fight against each other.. and the only info they have on other properties is what you choose to tell them.. and what you tell them could be the truth or otherwise.

Multiple agents can also be a problem where the agent says 'this one has just come on.. don't have the particulars yet...'' ie. it's a multi agent, and so there is no official selling price as a guide. In that case, the direct agent could have added his commission, then yours could have added theirs, and their is no way to know.  So instead of sharing the commission, you could be paying double commission if you don't haggle hard enough.

I had this.. was shown some new flats then went back online and found the price they told me was much higher than the selling price direct from the constructor.  So everyone was taking a slice.  As already mentioned.. always try to find the same place on idealista, pisos.com etc.. then bargain hard.

Unless the price is specifically stated,  the price the agent offers a property to you, can be dependant on what they think you can afford to pay.. nothing more.  eg. how desperate / keen you are, whether you have big wodge of cash, whether you have limited time to view, so will choose one from those you see etc.

The agents will of course lie in many cases.. I asked for habitation certificate, so instead of that,  they renamed the first occupation license to habitation certificate, and sent it to me saying that was the correct document. 

Then I asked for the infraciones report.. and they gave me a letter from the council that was stamped, signed, and everything, but wasn't an infraciones report.  Just a vague report saying no work had been done to the property in the last 10 years.. not what I asked for.

You must use a solicitor to check these things out.. otherwise you will go to notary with a fistful of useless paperwork thinking the agent was a great guy, and all the boxes have been ticked.

 





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10 Mar 2015 15:03 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

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~~The Licence of First Occupation (also known as Habitation Licence or Certificate of Habitation,  in Spanish Licencia de Primera Ocupación orCédula de Habitabilidad) is an Administrative licence granted by the Town Hall at the town/city in which the property is located, and enables the owner to dwell in it legally. The developer is responsible for applying for this licence once the Certificate of End of Construction has been issued. Each newly built dwelling will have an individual License of First Occupation (LFO) granted albeit in large developments the LFO are normally grouped for economies of scale. Resale properties will already have a LFO granted. In this article we will be referring mostly to off-plan properties.

It is the SAME document in law 

 

 

 



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Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748



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10 Mar 2015 16:16 by jon-granada Star rating. 30 posts Send private message

Roy - there's nothing in your quote that substantiates your claim that they are the same document in law.  It's true that for the first occupation, you only need the first occupation license, and you don't need the cedula de habitibilidad, since they are one and the same. But for the 2nd occupation onwards, the cedula does, and should exist.

The property am I am trying to buy has a first occupation certificate - licencia de primera ocupacion (since she was the 2nd occupier, she got this from the first occupier), but should have got the habitation certificate, the cedula de habitabilidad herself as 2nd resident, before attempting to resell to me.

She hasn't done so while living there in the last 10 years, so in the last few weeks, she has had to get an architects report and is now frantically applying for the cedula, with the first occupation document in her hand.  My solicitor is insisting she gets this document, and is meeting with the ayuntamiento architect tomorrow to confirm that one can be issued in principle.

For 2nd occupation onwards, they are different in law. Sorry to go off-topic.

 





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10 Mar 2015 16:23 by scambuster Star rating. 144 posts Send private message

The real problem with who is the listing agent is that I recently discovered one of those large groups of agents who also produces a thick glossy magazine listing the same properties several times over on their website with different reference numbers but at different prices. Then I found those same properties individually listed with other agents as well, for far less money. I asked why they could list for less and they said we don't charge the vendors such huge commission as that big agent group.

To put into perspective just how many properties are still for sale in Spain, various individual agents have as many as 600 properties on their books from their one and only office, and one large UK developer in Spain is advertising new builds on their previous sites to compete with their ex clients' resales on those sites of which their are 100's also for sale. So in effect they screw the market for their own clients. 

Property sales in Spain are a minefield to the unwary, you can pay 10's of 1000's more than you ought had you thoroughly done your homework and that's before 11% completion costs are added, negative equity is the result.





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10 Mar 2015 16:28 by inspectahomespain Star rating in Orihuela Costa, Spai.... 2417 posts Send private message

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It is the same document but they do have remewall dates so in this case perhaps the original document has run out

Once the Cédula de Habitabilidad has been issued it is valid for 5 years. 

After this date has expired it is necessary for the current owner of the property to renew the certificate in their own name which is presumably what the current owner is doing, the process requires the architects report but in a property less than 5 years old the original COH should be valid



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Roy Howitt Independent Property Consultant www.sonrisaproperties.com www.snaggingspain.com WE CAN FIND YOUR DREAM HOME 627 955 748



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12 Mar 2015 21:13 by scambuster Star rating. 144 posts Send private message

Manyarna, be guided by what both jon-granada and Hephaestus are saying, when it comes to agents/developers trust no-one, take most of what they say with a very large pinch of salt, never use their recommended lawyers either.

The Spanish property market is totally unregulated, anyone can become an agent, and you will discover many will tell you what they want you to hear, like 'your view will never be spoilt, it's a green area', 'you cannot lose', 'people are queuing up to buy', 'our Directors are buying them as well', 'we will cherrypick the best plot for you', and it's mainly about their often high commissions. Even after all the mis-selling of the past it is still a minefield. Take time out after viewing and don't be hassled, it's difficult saying 'no' or 'I'll think about it', they are very persuasive.

Once your completion costs are added, you're likely to be in negative equity, don't expect a quick nor profitable re-sale for years.





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13 Mar 2015 09:22 by Hephaestus Star rating in The Peak District Na.... 1237 posts Send private message

Beware of experts, they are very hard to find, and that includes many Spanish lawyers. Many people who have purchased haven't got a clue if their property is legal or a total shambles. Human nature dictates that folk don't readily admit that they have been taken for a fool, so further beware of personal recommendations.

Many British agents are ex financial advisers, timeshare sales personel and failed business men/women. Everyone knows a bit about property purchase in Spain, due to the plethora of TV programmes on the subject, but none of them know a lot. Sorry to keep repeating my hobby horse, but always look for an electricity meter, if it hasn't got one then it most probably isn't legal.

Take care out there.   



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13 Mar 2015 10:58 by starfox Star rating. 58 posts Send private message

We quickly learnt that unless you have done some pretty basic research before you contact an agent you will end up wasting your time with visiting properties you don't want. The first stop for any would be home buyer should be google maps and a site like goolzoom.es which will show you the catastro of the properties. As soon as you find a property you wish to visit you need to locate it, some give the address and others don't but once you have found it you can check just what sort of property rustic/urban(one of the biggest lies told by agents) it is and how much of it has been declared to the taxman. And if you can't locate the property there is generally a reason for it, there is a lesson in that for agents and sellers because there were a lot of houses, possibly good ones that we passed on seeing because of not being able to locate it.

Once you are happy that the house is say urban and everything appears to be declared on the catastro only then you should bother visiting it, it's not the whole story of the house and it normally will still have troubles matching the deeds, etc... but it's at least the start of informing yourself about the properties.

Forget about agents and focus on the properties, as soon as they realise you have half an idea of what is going on they tend to get back in their box anyway. Even the best agents we have found, there are a couple and not Spanish either, still play dumb to basic requests like asking for the nota simple or licence of 2nd occupation. Once you have a good lawyer and they realise they wont get a cut from that then it all gets sorted, or should do pretty quickly.





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