The Future in Spain?

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28 Nov 2014 08:06 by Pilgrim Star rating in Costa Calida. 234 posts Send private message

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Although my wife is Venezuelan by birth, she also holds a Spanish passport, so watches the news, etc. with some interest.

I don´t know if people have noticed but there is a party called "Podemos" (WE CAN) that is gaining popularity by leaps and bounds here!

People are fed up to the eye teeth with the corruption scandals of both the parties here in Spain. It is thought that Podemos, is a refreshing change. Young people, great ideas for the futute, all people to have a living salary, whether working or not, for whatever reason? Sounds great, yes?

Beware!! The leader, Pablo Iglesias, I am given to understand had close contact physically and financially, with Hugo Chavez, deceased Venezuelan President. For those that do not know, that country is in dire straits and allegedly on the verge of collapse.

The people there were identically fed up with corruption by those in high office! So, this Hugo Chavez also promised that things would be different and by God they were.

If Podemos come to power, it is said they will leave the EC, revert to the Peseta, etc., etc.

I have no wish to cause concern believe me but I am not the only person with exactly these fears!!

I would be interested to know if anyone else has heard anything that may be of interest to others on this topic?



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28 Nov 2014 08:08 by Pilgrim Star rating in Costa Calida. 234 posts Send private message

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I forgot to mention, probably the most important fact of all. Communism was the rule in Venezuela!!!



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28 Nov 2014 09:22 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

I voted for Podemos at the last local elections. I believe they represent the much needed force for change in Spain. The two party system that amounts to nothing more than 'buggins turn' is an obstacle to real fundamental change the youth of Spain craves. They seek hope for a better life and I believe that can only be brought about with accountability, open government and radical policies to shake up society.

I have no idea if Podemos can deliver that. I only know the other lot be they PP or PSOE cannot and will not. It is against their own selfish interests to do it. Corruption is an epidemic within the political class on all levels in Spain. It runs deep through the veins of Spanish society.

People are fed up and when that happens they will search for any available solution to remove the stink and stain corruption leaves behind. Podemos are untried but their time may be coming and it’s long overdue. The rise of the separatist vote in Catalonia is another symptom of the same malaise.

I was struck by the remarks the Pope made in the European Parliament this week. European politics are knarled and rotten and need change. The only hope for that lies with radical parties such as Podemos willing to cast aside the status quo. The alternative is sadly just more of the same.



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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28 Nov 2014 14:14 by Fartharder Star rating in Loriguilla.. 172 posts Send private message

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It seemed at first that Podemos could be the change that Spain needed. However, having watched his interview with Ana Pastor the other week, I'm now certain that Pablo Iglesias is not the man, and Podemos is not the party to take Spain forwards. I think voting Podemos would be a huge mistake for Spain.





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28 Nov 2014 14:17 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Why?



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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28 Nov 2014 18:12 by Pilgrim Star rating in Costa Calida. 234 posts Send private message

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Mickeyfinn, I could not agree with you more that Spain HAS to change and somehow get away from this endemic corruption that has created such a lousy state of affairs in Government, for year after year after year.

It is disgusting, that when confronted with their thievery, they always seem to adopt an arrogant attitude, as if to say, "How dare you make comment on my activities!!"

I note that you have made no comment on the fact that Iglesias has been funded by Chavez whose Communist regime has brought a beautiful country to its knees. I have lived there, so I know what I am talking about.

So, YES there has to be change but not from someone who has been trained in the wrong form of politics.

Whatever name it is given and there are many, Communism does not work for the people, only those that govern.

 



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28 Nov 2014 20:04 by Fartharder Star rating in Loriguilla.. 172 posts Send private message

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Mickeyfinn

I know Ana Pastor is a tough interviewer to deal with but she made mincemeat of Pablo Iglesias. She pointed out that so many of his policies are illegal in Spain and that he just couldn't possibly go ahead and do what he says he wants to do. He struggled when asked questions he wasn't expecting and struggled even more with the intelligence of Ana Pastor.

He was, in my opinion, exposed as someone who doesn't have what it takes to run a country, regardless of his background or political views.

I know Spain needs a change, like the UK probably needs a change, but voting Podemos is like voting UKIP. They might appeal to some, but they're just not the answer we are looking for.





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28 Nov 2014 20:40 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

Radicalism or the desire for different system of government more accountable to the people is born in the street, in the schools, universities and in the bars. It is by its very nature the voice of the ordinary man. Unpolished, raw, unblemished by the slick machine of establishment spin and it's enormous resources.

The media seek to exploit that primitive rough edge as weakness. I see it as a strength. Originality, a different force coming from the discontent of the masses. Refreshingly original, idealistic not simply more of the same old.

I have read all Podemos aims and ambitions. They may be utopian, impractical in the current establishment view of the world. That is actually the point. If you want a society to really change it’s necessary to lead it somewhere different.

The problem for Podemos is understanding sufficiently if Spanish society really is that interested in fundamental political change and in turn make themselves electable without frightening the children. The opinion polls I have seen suggests they may be in with a decent chance.

 



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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29 Nov 2014 08:15 by Pilgrim Star rating in Costa Calida. 234 posts Send private message

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Mickeyfinn, the ideology you state sounds like a utopia!

Let me explain something, just in case people are not aware, Venezuela has a very strong tie with Spain. Briefly, when Spanish people found the grind of Franco too much to bear, many thousands emigrated to Venezuela. That country enjoyed a very good standard of living apart from the inevitable corruption.

Then this Hugo Chavez appeared that promised an end to all that corruption, with an open people-minded system that would suit everybody!! Hooray, they all said and for a couple of years all seemed OK. Then the Bolivarian Communist system started to bite! Chavez had as his mentor, none other that Fidel Castro and we all should know how that country is fairing? Now, with the country on its knees, thousands of Spaniards are coming back to Spain because the fabric of the country has broken down.

Look at the difference between east and west Berlin, when the wall was there. That may be a dramatic illustration but again, Communism and the devastating effect it has on people and possessions.

Mickeyfinn, would you care to state your feelings about that particular political order?

 

 



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29 Nov 2014 08:58 by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

This reminds me of how people hated the Shah so much that they thought any other regime would be better. Even feminists helped to oust the Shah. Then they got the Ayatollahs and the women especially only saw too late what they'd helped create. Just because you don't like one system you should never assume another will be better. We discussed Podemos some time ago here. Maybe someone can find the thread - I wrote some detailed responses to their proposals, which could be pasted here and re-examined, if someone knows how to find these things.



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29 Nov 2014 09:25 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1837 posts Send private message

I’m not a believer in political ideologies, least of all communism or any other ism. It is much too simplistic to say Podemos would enforce a Latin American style dictatorship in Spain. Up with it the people would never put.  It’s a pure scare tactic. Even radicals know that you throw out the baby with the bath water as Castro, et al did you face international isolation and economic decline unless you have oil. Venezuela is now in trouble because of the oil price slump but Chavez is still a national saint. He was always democratically elected by the people. He must have done something right.

Podemos like UKIP is politically useful for people to vent their anger and frustration with the established parties. Their popularity in a genuinely pluralist society can also actually influence government policy as we have seen this week in the UK. Cameron cannot ignore UKIP. Rajoy cannot ignore Podemos or the Catalonians for very long.

If theywant to survive they have to modify policy to satisfy people’s demands making it seem it was their idea..

The corruptions issues in Spain are extremely serious politically in Spain. It could still topple Rajoy and at the least cost the PP the election in 2015.  Podemos may well hold the balance of power in the new parliament with PSOE in government. No bad thing you may think?



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Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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29 Nov 2014 13:02 by Pilgrim Star rating in Costa Calida. 234 posts Send private message

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Mickeyfinn, Chavez did almost nothing right. Yes he was democratically elected the first time but people became so disillusioned with him, after much cadjoling by the media, etc., he grudgingly agreed to a referendum.

I was there for my wife to cast her vote. I have never witnessed such collusion and corruption in both lines of people outside the voting booths and also those inside. It was a machine vote, with ex-President Carter supposedly overseeing the procedures. He turned out to be a rather insipid person, unfortunately. Complaints that "si" and "no" had been transposed in some machines fell on deaf ears!

It turned out that allegedly, Chavez had part ownership of the machines used for the referendum. It was resoundingly agreed that a total fraud had been committed.

But as someone on this forum has stated, it is almost impossible for the man in the street to question practices! 

Chavez was adored by the shanty town population. He gave them a T-shirt, a cap and some food, so they voted for him.

So you see, things are not always as they are reported. Worth thinking about!



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