Entitlement to Healthcare

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03 Dec 2011 12:00 AM by terina Star rating. 1 posts Send private message

Does anyone know if you become a Resident in Spain, but don't work, if there is any way you can pay into the Social Security system every month, to be entitled to their healthcare.  Or is the only option to take out private healthcare insurance?





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03 Dec 2011 12:21 PM by bobaol Star rating. 2256 posts Send private message

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 That would all depend on where you live as each region has different rules.  The Valencia region has introduced a €90 a month (per person) option of paying in to give you complete healthcare.  I'm not sure but I think Catalunya still has free healthcare for all residents (unless they changed their rules as well).  You can also opt to be registered as self employed (autonomo) but this is very expensive at (used to be) €245 a month for a household and would probably work out at higher than private insurance.

Don't forget that, if you have been paying into the UK NI scheme you can get up to 2.5 years free healthcare in Spain depending on when your NI contributions stopped but you need to get an S1 from the International Pensions Centre (Health) to prove you have paid your contributions.  

 





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04 Dec 2011 10:51 AM by tfr Star rating. 12 posts Send private message

 Hi, there are several options;

1. Regional  - in Valencia pay 90 euros a month, Catalonia  and Galicia offer free health care to all residents

2. Sin Recursos - if you have low income (under about 600 euros pm), you can also apply for free health care

3. Set up a dummy autonomo  - this is a bit outside the rules so be careful how you do it

 



This message was last edited by tfr on 04/12/2011.



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20 Jun 2012 10:09 AM by pittstop Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

I read last week that the ministry had changed its mind on the basic rules for free healthcare and wondered how true this was as I'm in a similar situation. 

What I read was that if you can prove your income is below 100,000 per annum (I'm guessing that is a typo as that was more than my salary back in the UK, which was much higher than minimum wage) and you were a legal resident in Spain, you would be entitle to claim free medical treatment (in otherwords obtain a SIP card without setting up an autonomo)  I suspect what this actually means is that the sin recursos regulation is being extended to close up several loop holes that meant some foreign nationals resident in Spain were not included in this category.

This may all change again of course but if true it means I might finally get into the Spanish system after 5 years of paying for all my own treatment privately.

(sorry the forum doesn't allow external links, to follow the article you will need to search for 

Ministry backtracks on healthcare entitlement restrictions

 





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20 Jun 2012 11:21 AM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Pitstop
 
At a time when Spain is broke (in all but name) I would be extremely surprised if what you say is correct.  I would imagine that any changes would to be to reduce the number of people eligible and thus save money.
 
For those of us who are retired or permanently incapacitated and thus get cover  in Spain through the NHS in UK (used to be the form E121) the Spanish health service gets an annual payment of, I believe it is £2,500 but read in a post that it might be as high as £3,500.





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20 Jun 2012 11:31 AM by bobaol Star rating. 2256 posts Send private message

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 I know it's just a freebie paper and shouldn't really be relied upon, but:

New Health Cards

And only a proposal, reading between the lines

 





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20 Jun 2012 11:38 AM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Bobaol, It appears its not  a freebie but El Pais.
 
 
http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/06/14/inenglish/1339677237_391907.html
 
Ministry backtracks on healthcare entitlement restrictions
From restricted access to an open hand. The legislation being drawn up by the Health Ministry to accommodate the budget cuts in healthcare has changed tack dramatically. The draft, which EL PAÍS has had access to, states that legal residents (either Spanish or foreign) who do not contribute to Social Security will not be left out of the system as planned. Instead, all they need to do is prove that they make less than 100,000 euros a year.
 
That is a radical change from an April decree that stipulated that non-contributors had to prove a complete lack of income in order to be eligible for a public health card.
 
But that decision left out social groups like rentiers or members of religious congregations, who do not pay Social Security, but have an income. The new legislation is an attempt to patch up these holes. From now on, anyone over 26 who has never paid Social Security will still be allowed to use the public health network, as long as they make under 100,000 euros a year.
 
But at the same time, the law gets tougher on residents from the European Union who neither work nor study - such as retired people who live off a pension or personal savings, for instance.
 
From now on, their residency will be subject to their "not becoming an excessive burden on Spain's social assistance."
 
The purpose of the legislative change is unclear, but several experts consulted by EL PAÍS said that the point is to prevent people from coming to Spain without a job but with resources (for instance, after selling his or her house back home), and later abusing the system when their money runs out. In other words, only EU residents who can pay for their own upkeep may remain here.
 
The draft legislation says that "resorting to social assistance in Spain by a citizen of the Union or a member of his family will not automatically result in expulsion."
 
Meanwhile, illegal immigrants will no longer have unrestricted access to the system, but instead will only be allowed emergency care.





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20 Jun 2012 2:16 PM by pittstop Star rating. 8 posts Send private message

I totally understand the sceptism, I'm not holding much store in the article either.  100,000 sounds too good to be true.  since the lowest tax bracket for income tax is currently 17,707 € i'm guessing 10,000 would be a more realistic figure.

what the el pais article does also confirm is that this is going to be restricted to LEGAL immigrants only, so if you don't have your residencia sorted out, you would not be entitled.  it is also specific this is resticted to those with low to no income, if you have massive savings or income from outside sources you probably wouldn't be elligible even if these proposals take effect.

also, as was pointed out below, this isn't something that is likely to take effect from september, more likely a proposal for debate then.  But it if does go through it would make me and my partner's lives a lot simpler.

 





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20 Jun 2012 2:35 PM by summer70 Star rating in Granada. 92 posts Send private message

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legal residents (either Spanish or foreign) who do not contribute to Social Security will not be left out of the system as planned. Instead, all they need to do is prove that they make less than 100,000 euros a year.

In other words, you will need to be a fiscal resident of Spain for this to apply.



_______________________
No me lo puedo creer! Living in Spain as an Expat.



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20 Jun 2012 2:35 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

Pitstop.
 
Just to clariufy what you said.
 
The first band is from 0 to 17,707 on taxable income.  
 
So even on 1 euro of taxable income (after the tax allowance applicable to that person)  one pays tax.





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20 Jun 2012 2:46 PM by johnzx Star rating in Spain. 5246 posts Send private message

The problem with legislation, especially in Spain, is rarely straightforward. 
 
When my wife came to Spain from the Philippines, she applied for Residencia status. It was a formality as she qualified under Spanish (and EU law) law. 
 
We obtained an E121 (or equivalent) from UK and the local office started registration for her to be included on the Spanish health service.
 
We later got a letter from Malaga, saying she could not do so until her Residencia was actually issued. We queried it at the local office and they called the office in Malaga, as they also believed there was a mistake. She had to wait. 
 
That UK said they would pay the annual fee (£2,500) for her cover, made no difference.     However., we knew people who are here illegally and they were, and are, covered !!!!!





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27 Oct 2012 2:51 PM by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

There is a letter in the Costa Blanca News this week in which a couple of pre-retirement age have successfully applied for and received,free health care. they fulfilled the criteria of being fiscally resident and had an income of under 100,000 e.. I think that all pensioners should also  be fiscally  resident in order to receive free healthcare. After all, the DWP pays for our healthcare on the grounds that we receive the same healthcare as a Spanish national.in which case UK ex pats should pay towards prescriptions AND be fiscally resident, something which many are not. It's only what they should  have been doing all along anyway, and would boost the economy.At the moment the only disadvantage nonfiscal residents have is that they can't claim back the excess on their prescription charges. If they were told -No fiscal residency=no free healthcare, the HMRC in UK would be deluged with F9 applications! The Spanish tax office relly missed a trick here!

 


This message was last edited by camposol on 27/10/2012.



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27 Oct 2012 4:29 PM by llegaralasestrellas Star rating in United Kingdom (BHX .... 58 posts Send private message

llegaralasestrellas´s avatar

Following legislation makes my brain hurt 

I do have an important question though - maybe someone already over there can help clarify this for me? Me and my partner were talking over our plans for the future last night, and and the question of healthcare came up. I know everything is in flux at the moment, but any clarifications of the basics would be great.

We are a working age same sex female couple (early 30s). We don't intend to move over until I have a legal job secured, but my partner probabaly won't be working at first, and will look for something (legal) later on.

> Am I correct in assuming that as I will be paying seguridad social that I will be covered by Insalud more of less from the start (i.e. once I get my first pay packet) including for perscription drugs?

> Will my patner be covered by my contributions, until she starts working herself?

> If not will she be entitled to support on the fact that she will have no income of her own?

> Does having an EHIC make any difference in any of these cases?

 

We are hoping to move to the Valencia region, though we haven't ruled out the possibility of Andalucia.





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27 Oct 2012 5:35 PM by camposol Star rating in Camposol. 1408 posts Send private message

The EHIC card is for tourists in Spain, is for emergency treatment only and for up to 3 months duration. when you register on the tax system, and each pay your monthly social security payments, you will be covered for medical care-I think it's approx 250e per month.If your partner isn't working, I don't think she'll be covered by your payments unless she's classed as a dependant. Probably better to get good medical insurance, until working; fine if you're healthy, but existing conditions won't be covered. You will still have to pay a percentage of prescription drugs.





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27 Oct 2012 5:54 PM by llegaralasestrellas Star rating in United Kingdom (BHX .... 58 posts Send private message

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Camposol, is SS a fixed amount for employees, then? I thought that the fixed rate only applied to the self-employed - so confusing!

My partner and I have a legal civil partnership, so would that class her as a dependent? The Spanish consulate here have said that our civil p/ship will be recognised there as a full marriage for legal purposes, but didn't elaborate on what that meant from a seguridad social standpoint.

 

 


This message was last edited by llegaralasestrellas on 27/10/2012.



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27 Oct 2012 6:23 PM by scubamike Star rating in Murcia province . 220 posts Send private message

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There is alot of talk in the British press at the moment about Britain pulling out of the European Union One wonders what might happen to entitlement to healthcare and the European Health Card if this happens!!!





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27 Oct 2012 7:01 PM by 66d35 Star rating. 243 posts Send private message

My partner and I have a legal civil partnership, so would that class her as a dependent? The Spanish consulate here have said that our civil p/ship will be recognised there as a full marriage for legal purposes, but didn't elaborate on what that meant from a seguridad social standpoint.

The answer is that yes, it does, and yes, she should. See:

www.seg-social.es/Internet_6/Preguntasmasfrecuen37888/SubsidiosyotrasPres48581/Asistenciasanitaria/index.htm

Of course "should" and actually negotiating the maze of petty officialdom in Spain so you get what you are supposed to get are two different things! It may take a bit of effort, but in essence there is clear entitlement.

 

 

 





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27 Oct 2012 9:35 PM by llegaralasestrellas Star rating in United Kingdom (BHX .... 58 posts Send private message

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Thanks for the link, 66. That clarifies things a lot :)

Scubamike: I agree. All this talk about a "Brexit" is very un-nerving. I'm really crossing my fingers that the Tories chicken out - or at least that common sence will prevail (ever the optimist!) - and so nothing will come of it, but it is a concern. Apart from the purely self centred reasons like reciporocal healthcare and barrier free migration, I think it just sends a bad message about British attitudes towards Europe.

 





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27 Oct 2012 10:35 PM by guslopez Star rating in Lorca, Murcia.. 745 posts Send private message

If the UK exited then healthcare would revert back to the ' bi-lateral agreement' , which is still in force, giving the same entitlement to healthcare.

Look on the bright side. If the uk did pull out we would no longer be EU Citizens & come under the foreigners register & be entiled to the identity cards again !!



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28 Oct 2012 5:37 AM by 66d35 Star rating. 243 posts Send private message

If they did pull out, very much would depend on the terms. The 'best' option would be for some negotiated settlement that would place 'us' in the same category as Citizens of Switzerland.... however, don't count on that. There is a lot of animosity (much of it well founded) in the EU towards the UK, who have never really behaved as 'true' Europeans, prefering instead to ally themselves to the US (without any reciprocation, of course!). So, equally, "we" could end up with exactly the same "rights" as someone from Turkey. i.e., none at all. No absolute right to be here (you'd need a visa/work permit) and very few other 'rights' too. You could be deported.

In my view, the UK has played a very dangerous, foolish game. The Tories in particular have whipped up anti-EU hysteria, much of it based on pure falsehoods and urban myths. The electorate, of course, are - as usual - dumb and ignorant enough to buy into this uncritically, without comprehending the real consequences for themselves. What's new, eh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





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