legal case result anybody heard anything.

to make every body happy i quit . I am sure it will all work out in the end. I am quite nice really. Good luck to every body

bye

Perhaps, some one can enlightenment me here. Given that Roda are about 2 years ahead of Corvera and there is no hotel, supermarket or a commercial centre why are the Roda owners not suing Calidona? If they are why have we not heard anything? It seems, from the forums, that only Corvera owners are pursuing Calidona - is this a fair assumption?

Genuine questions - no intention of starting WW3.

M.

Hey Spanhood, your reply to 1234 is well out of order and seemed totally unnecessary especially as you put your point of view (even though I didn´t agree with much of what you said) quite eloquently just minutes before.

I have decided to reduce my participation on this site because on balance it was getting quite negative and also, quite frankly, I am disappointed in aspects of the development that were impacting upon me personally namely  ; the considerable delays threatening my chances to raising the finance to complete, my substantial deposit wasting away for the last 3 years, delays to the timing of building work in very close proximity to the villa and concerns that key facilities were not going to be delivered in a reasonable timeframe amongst others.

However, I´m a lifestyler and having visited the site again recently cannot fail to be excited by the development and honestly feel that it will become a sought after development. In my view the key relationship is the one with the PGA. If that is nurtured successfully (and all the signs are suggest that the PFA are still enthusiastic about the facilities on offer then this will be the catalyst for the 5 star resort to become a reality. The participation of De Vere in a 5 star hotel to me is not critical as other top hotel names will I´m sure be keen to partner Corvera if that relationship with the PGA holds firm.

I agree that the whole delay in getting this development up and running cannot be blamed on the recession but more recent developments like the financial difficulties faced bty De Vere must surely be linked with the current economic climate and I would like to believe that Corvera will be better placed than most resorts to benefit from the economic recovery if and when it arrives.  

In the past I have been accused of being too pro Ccrvera for business reasons but as always what I post is based on the true economic situation in this area which effects people on a daily basis, owning rental properties, speaking to the agents operators and even the golfers.

Local courses are down more than 35% on last year and of course the spin off effects the local economy but this isn´t the case for the more established areas like VillaMartin or La Manga, both still very busy

Let´s face some realities the first is that the actual numbers of holiday makers and golfers are down and there are far too many properties avaiable for rental

Certainly RODA have some questions to answer, yes they need a good commercial centre, even a spa, but the hotel I doubt would work

In the area of RODA there are many hotels, and spa´s including the Serena Golf resort which openned for 5 months and closed because I understand financially they couldn´t get it to work and now it sits empty with the pool going green

Even when they do build commercial centres there are no guarntees that you can get people to move in for example UNITED GOLF with a fully completed centre and no tennants, the units on Mosa Trajectum, no tennants

Now I believe and I have said this before that guven the location, the airport, and lack of local competition that the facilities on Corvera will be developed more quickly plus I understand that the Spanish Open is being held at Hacienda De Alamo in 2012

Now I must say again that on any new resort it will take 12 - 18 months to achieve rental income.while the resort is established

Now I successfully rent my own golf propertues and so do numbers of people on RODA and this is achieved by not relying on a rental agency but by doing it yourself.

I use the local golf booking agencies and offer a package where they can get lower rates on other local courses plus provide a lot of information on the area

For an idea I also have the ability to offer a fully serviced stay like a hotel, daily cleaning, bed making and a service wher somebody can prepare a meal in the property as sometimes you have to think outside of the box

1234

please do not give up on the forum. Your input from your own personal point of view is totally necessary as is Spanhod's from his. Differing perspectives at least lead us all to question certain acceptences, or at least try to find our own informed view and are vital to ALL of us that have invested time and money into Corvera, wether we intend completing or not.

Some personal commentscan be hurtful even when meant as a light hearted quip (I know that I can be as sarcastic as the next sometimes), however you must try to learn to take these with the proverbial pinch of salt.

This really is the backbone to all forums and democracy's.

Remember when the 3 main parties in our government agree on something, IT ALWAYS COSTS US.

Best regards to all and keep posting.

Chris- I am not going to apologise for the comments directed at 1234. Everyone on here has differing opinions and whether they are aligned with mine or not i still take the time to read them and try and objectively see the point that is being made. After all that is the whole point of such a site. However when everyone on here is spending time and effort  to discuss matters that are affecting them both financially,emotionally and to some physically it gets very annoying when someone belittles all that effort by making ridiculous one line  comments.. 

example WOULD YOU BE MOANING IF THE POUND WAS WORTH 3 EUROES. eNJOY THE WONDERFUL SITE

and now we get the one about unemployed spending their benefits and a television set???

 Are these relevant intelligent observations? You spend time and effort answering a point that is made to have it trivualised by stupidity, that is annoying.

I am sorry to hear that you are also being badly affected by this development and i am also a little confused that you say that you do not agree with a lot of what i said in my post but then go onto make the same points.Or am i missing something? apologies if so.

We all bought into this development because we all believed it would be a first class,stand out resort that would have longevity and therefore be a great investment as well as a fantastic place to live, i think everyone believes that will still be the case but the timeline is unacceptable for a lot of us. I hope you all get what you want from it. 

regards

Dave

as some of you will know i am an owner on roda phase 4  which will be delivered approx 3 years late !! however leaving that aside (hard to do ) i have had meetings with calidona customer services regarding my concerns of lack of facalaties on what is the next to last phase of the resort and was sold at a considerable premium with the pretext that these facalaties would be in place as for the outcome of the meetings calidona will NOT COMMIT to the building of the hotel / spa  or commercial center at this time (ok some may say in this climate ) but more to the point is they will not give a commitment that it will EVER GO AHEAD .

on my last visit to the area i had meetings with large local agents to establish what is actually happening in the market the outcome of which was  there is more interest  in the market than ay any time in the last 18 months however if you wanted to achieve a sale ( on roda ) you would be looking at 30- 40% below your contract price !! however more to the point was that buyers are not prepared to buy on uncompleted resorts because they fear the facalaties may never materialise , asked about achieving a sale on roda even at the reduced price " very hard work as calidona have simply not delivered what was promised and show no signs of doing so " .

the agent then went on to say that roda could not  attract the larger golf competitions due to the lack of hotel facalaties for the players .( true or false i have no idea )

this is not intended to add fuel to the fire it is just a FACTUAL account of my dealings with calidona , as i hope you people at corvera do not find yourself in the same situation as myself  as it is not a pleasant situation when it is not of your making , it is also worth bearing in mind that to date calidona have never even completed a resort !! 

Please don´t think that I am having a go at you Searay but it is unfortunate that you choose to include comments from an agent tne very people that have created a lot of the problems that we are experiencing locally

I know all about the issues at RODA on phase 4 and the lack of the commercial centre and nothing in this mail is written to trivialise the issues

As most people know the comments that I make are based on my local knowledge snd practical experiences of owning and renting property locally and I do not sell, or I habv never sold property

Let´s first of all acccept that buying any new property in tis area is not a good investment at the moment and to sell any standard type property, your normal townhouse apartment or villa,  you will have to reduce your expecations by at least 30% and probably sell below the price that you paid, not just on RODA ore Polaris but ANY PROPERTY in this area

In my own case my property, close to Villa Martin golf, that cost €125 5 years ago, I would be lucky to sell for €90k now if there were any buyers around  and it has been marketed for €110k for the last year. The agent still wants €10k to even try to sell if  but it rents well, 27 weeks so far in 2009 at an average of €290 per week so I will just sit on the property

Let´s also understand that the typical agent is now out to get you to reduce your price as much as possible because, regardless of what the agent has said about increased activities there are very few buyers out there and those that are looking are after distressed sellers.

The agents have not reduced their fees they still want their €10 - €20k commission, always added to the price you want and of course the make their extras on the mortgage, legal fees, and furniture and they are more interested in selling the new properties

The newer buyers coming into the market are the Russians who do not typically buy on golf resorts but want properties in towns normally local to the beaches

The other factor is that buyers are more aware and also look at other factors like ongoing service charges where the difference owning on or just  off a golf resort can be over €1500 per annum

As far as any local course holding a major event there is always a problem, not just facilities but infrastructure take La Manga which has most things but when was the last time they had a major golf event, Mosa Trajectum have had minor PGA events, Villamartin or Campoamor again local corporate events but notheing signifucant, they all have the necessary facilities, hotels, Spa´s etc

The truth is that the competion for these eents in very intense and they are planned and committed years in advance as with the 2012 Spainsh Open being played at Haciena de Alamo, no htel open yet but of course a pneding international airport close by 

An agent will typically sell what is easy for them and makes the most money

I am sorry that I have to paint such a depressing picture but I bought a property to enjoy and property prices will EVENTUALLY come back but it will just take sometime

Hi Spanhod,

Thanks for replying and explaining. I´ve not been following recent threads to closely so can sympathise with your frustrations if you´re getting flip responses but still thought you went over the top but we´ll agree to differ on that.

You´re probably right that we´re not a million miles apart in our thinking but generally I ´disagreed´ with your posting in that I feel that on my recent visit  the development is already taking shape with golf course bedding down, excellent practice facilities, plenty of pools, and sports facilities in place. I do not  believe that a top class hotel is the highest priority at the moment in that a 5 star resort is likely to lead to onto the development of a 5 star hotel later on. In terms of facilities, the golf course, club house and other sports facilities are key as is a commercial centre and based on experiences at Roda we need to be vigilant that this is delivered at an earlier stage of development. Personally, it doesn´t worry me taking a trip to a local supermarket, shops and restaurants but for the resort´s image and future attractiveness to both investors and holidaymakers it is vital that these things are provided before too long.

As a country club style resort the equestrian facilities and ability to hire mountain bikes are facilities that need to be provided as originally anticipated and I´m not sure how this will be handled - whether Calidona will provide or if these are expected to be franchised to private operators.

As I said before I´m not too happy about Calidona from a personal perspective at the moment but in my opinion they seem to be delivering the core facilities and we just need to ensure that we are exerting pressure for the other originally specified facilities to be delivered in a reasonable timeframe and not allow these to fall by the wayside.

hi Chris

 I can see where you are coming from but as far as putting pressure on Calidona to complete the facilities in a reasonable time frame is concerned, I think you will find that as soon as people have paid fully for their apartments there will be very little pressure you can apply, any leverage you might have had will be gone once they have your money. I invested because of the De Vere and PGA connection and the promise of other facilities all of which will not be delivered in a 'reasonable' time frame and as such as far as I'm concerned Calidona are in breech of contract and should return the deposits, at least to those who are not happy with the situation. If people are fully aware of the current situation and are happy to continue that's fine. What I am saying is that due to the lack of promised facilities ( and definite guaranteed timeframe for them) people should now have the choice as to whether to carry on or have their deposits returned.

I certainly think that people will be dissapointed if they think that once you have bought, all you have to do is apply some pressure (what pressure?) and all the facilities will appear in a reasonable time, I think if people do proceed that you should do so with the assumption that many of the promised facilities will not materialise but if you're happy with that great.

 It should be remembered that only 2 thirds of the development has been sold and many of those who have bought will not complete.Calidona's  income is likely to be substantially less than predicted, as a result  a business would typically look to cutting costs to compensate.As a result I suspect that it will be uneconomical to complete the outstanding facilities, at the end of the day if it's a choice between maximising profit ( or minimising a loss) and completing the facilities, I know what I think will happen.

Also if I was completing I would be concerned about maintenance costs, if all the facilities (inc golf course) are completed but only around half of the original apartments completed, and poor rental prospects for some time, would the facilities be able to financially sustain themselves? and if they can not would they have to be subsidised by the maintenance fee? How much will the fee end up being? I don't mean to be negative but I feel a reasonably realistic approach should be take.

kev

Hi Kev,

You´ve made some good points. Individually it is difficult to exert real pressure although we can all keep chipping away. May be those in the  Corvera Owners Group who still intend to complete could somehow join forces to apply that pressure but accept that it needs people with the skills, time and inclination to co-ordinate the lobbying activity.

My main hope is that Calidona understand that their relationship with the PGA is underpinned by the provision of a 5 star resort and hotel so their incentive to provide the facilities originally under offer is to protect that relationship. However, I accept that some facilities such as the equestrian centre would not be pivotal in keeping the PGA happy.

Your points on the ongoing financial viability of a resort with only half the units sold are well made. I would assume Calidona´s business plan might have considered the possibility of less than the full 1,800 units being sold but that has probably already been accounted for by reducing the number of units built under phase 2 and adjusting the timeframe for the later phases. The uncertain element is the impact of any owners who successfully cancel their contracts which could create the cash pressures you outline.

However, I am still heartened by the look and feel of the site as it is being developed and that the club house seems to be underway (unless anyone has news to the contrary - The delay in providing this at Roda was a mistake which I hope Calidona has learnt from). From a green field site eighteen months ago to what is now on offer is encouraging (e.g.the provision of the tempoaray sports facilities) it is just a shame that this 18 months of progress didn´t start two years earlier otherwise I´m sure we´d all be much more optimistic now but I guess that´s the risk of off plan investment.