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Mac's Poll - Let's Vote

Curious to know what the general opinion is? Cast your vote and let's see!!

POLL: If the Brexit referendum were repeated today, which side do you think would win?
26 November 2018 @ 13:20

With chaos engulfing the Brexit process as MPs on both sides of the debate rebel against the Prime Minister’s negotiated deal, calls have been made for a second referendum.

Apparently, close to half of Britons (47%) believe that Remain would now win in a repeat of the 2016 vote. By contrast, only 29% of people think that Leave would prevail. The remaining 24% don’t know. What do you think? Has our perception changed or has the country actually changed its mind? Who do you think would win today?



Like 1


karisy said:
26 November 2018 @ 19:42

Those who voted to leave have been stitched up by a UK Parliament, Civil Service & Prime Minister who are mainly Europhiles with a vested interest in remaining in the EU & this has all been done in partnership with Brussels & some of the more conniving EU member states who still want/need the UK's £6 billion+ annual, net contribution to stop the EU going bust. The "deal" has been stage managed & engineered to ensure it's defeated by the House Of Commons "meaningful vote", let alone the Lords. We will then be offered 3 way "peoples vote" which will consist of this "very bad deal", "no deal" or, no surprises here, "lets remain in the EU then". It's obvious which way this vote will go as the whole thing has been engineered to split the original Brexit voters. Keep voting until you get the "correct result" & this scenario has been engineered by Brussels to other member states before. I still firmly believe the UK would be better outside the EU but If another vote goes to "remain", I will never trust another politician or vote again in my entire life; at the moment I feel very betrayed!

windtalker said:
27 November 2018 @ 13:58

Very good post Karisy.

baz1946 said:
28 November 2018 @ 11:10

Very true Karisy and more then plain to see what the EU is, and has been doing over the past couple of years, if we leave the rest might follow and bang goes the gravy train, or should I say 'Derailed'

anthomo16 said:
01 December 2018 @ 08:30

So very true Karisy and I personally think it insane to remain as they Junker and Co. would have us by the proverbial short and curlies. Ireland have already stated that if we remain then we must be made to sign all kinds of agreements. Yes wehave been right and royally stitched up.
Again my personal views were that the EU (Junker and Merkel) were stinging us making us pay for their own poor resources. I have nothing against the countries in the EU just those UNelected so called leaders.

grapow said:
01 December 2018 @ 08:59

Leave only won in 2016 due to a totally illegal, foreign inspired/funded campaign. It is entirely correct to run again and have a vote based on facts.

Graeme said:
01 December 2018 @ 09:17

The whole leave campaign was predicated on lies and unlawful activity and should be made void. It was all based on not conceding to the 2019 tax avoidance clampdown. So we all loose our rights to the EU so that multimillionaires don’t have to prove their income sources and the voting idiots fell for it like lambs to the slaughter

jeffsears said:
01 December 2018 @ 09:26

Which lies do want to believe? Those issued by Project Fear! As for the EU clamping down on tax avoidance why don’t they start at home and make all employees including the unelected leaders pay tax on their earnings.

roy leon said:
01 December 2018 @ 10:15

If the public were fed with the same lack of real information then I think the result would be the same. However they are somewhat better informed now.
Furthermore the half million Brits living in Europe were not permitted to vote.

johndee said:
01 December 2018 @ 10:25

If the 'remain' campaigners are clever people, how come they didn't give us the last two years of anti-Brexit-reasons-to-stay before we voted !

Brian said:
01 December 2018 @ 10:39

If you had any sense you would have seen how bad economically it will be for the country to leave its biggest market and the best social welfare, best human rights and justice system the world has to offer. It is paifully obvious what a Tory run Britain is about idealogically, the whole leave referendum was only about the tory party being scared of losing votes to UKIP and that party is a quasi BNP fascist element. You should always remember that Nnationalism as in Patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel. It was true hundreds of years ago and it is still true today. Most leave voters were stupid enough to equate all immigration with EU immigrants also.

David Atherton said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:30

How bad is this that on an ex-pat website, the Leave expectation is higher.

I think it's going to be a nightmare. Spain's bureaucracy is already hellish as an EU citizen, whats it going to be like now. I own a house here and my girlfriend has a business here, nobody is telling us whether we still have the right to live and work here.

And as others have said, it's all bad economically. And we did have "control", we had our bloc of MEPs, one less than France, same number as italy, only Germany has more. Problem stems from the British not liking coalition politics. And all the immigration worries (Islam, culture, even skin colour) are about non-Europeans.

Charlietwice said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:32

With every possible scenario forecasted to leave the UK worse off the only solution is to stay in the EU. Working from within to change and improve is a better scenario than leaving our biggest market and cutting off our noses to spite our face. I’ve never encountered a scenario when a government has pursued a policy which would make its country poorer, but we have one here. Given the illegality and lies involved with the original vote a new vote based on what’s been learnt over the last two and a half years seems sensible. As an analogy, Would anyone make an offer for a house based on a photo, then having discovered it’s not what the advert stated, still go ahead and buy? We’ve had two and a half years to view what can only be described as a mess.

Charlietwice said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:33

With every possible scenario forecasted to leave the UK worse off the only solution is to stay in the EU. Working from within to change and improve is a better scenario than leaving our biggest market and cutting off our noses to spite our face. I’ve never encountered a scenario when a government has pursued a policy which would make its country poorer, but we have one here. Given the illegality and lies involved with the original vote a new vote based on what’s been learnt over the last two and a half years seems sensible. As an analogy, Would anyone make an offer for a house based on a photo, then having discovered it’s not what the advert stated, still go ahead and buy? We’ve had two and a half years to view what can only be described as a mess.

Charlietwice said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:35

David Atherton. I agree, we’ve always had control, it’s just that government have chosen not to use it.

Artistana said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:35

It's common sense that being part of one of the largest unions of developed countries in the world is an advantage and that choosing to leave just to show how much one dislikes the present government amounts to cutting your nose to spite your face. Then they are the genuine xenophobes, racists and generally unintelligent and bigoted people who don't like anything non-Brit (if they also happen to be immigrants living in another European country, add hypocrite to the list). Hopefully some of the confused and gullible have realised by now of the advantages for a small country like the UK in being part of a bigger union and would have changed their minds. My hopes for the future, should we remain part of the EU is that our ELECTED European MPs are next time more efficient in their jobs and that the UK will behave like the powerful, influential, creative, collaborative part of Europe that they deserve to be.

Dotty said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:40

Karisy thank you for putting the whole thing into perspective in other words in a nut shell.....the one thing that made me feel very sad and upset this week was hearing that Brexit as undertones of racialism I know the British public feel enough is enough of the emigration situation which is how I feel amongst other important issues but to be accused of racialism is very upsetting and very wrong.

karisy said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:41

Why is it some folks just can't have a constructive or critical debate without resorting to personal insult or tarring those who voted leave as right wing idiots, most are far from it! Throwing insults at those with different opinions to yours just show a serious lack of understanding & intelligence! Leave voters were/are not stupid, far from it & the majority I know are certainly not racially motivated fascists! Most knew exactly what we were voting for - to get away from the ever increasing dictatorial status of Brussels & financial burden that being one of the few successful members of a failing European experiment now means, even if it entails "short term" consequences. It wasn't just about immigration & I'm certainly not "stupid enough" to equate all immigration with EU immigrants!

DJF42 said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:53

Well Brian, whilst I respect your right to have and, to express your opinion I can't help thinking that you can only come from one side of the house. The euro zone is not the UK biggest market, remain propaganda. The whole of the UK and EU has been spoilt by all the state interference into our lives through social welfare, human rights, justice system. All a means of control by the state, making us believe that we are unable to stand on our on two feet without the politicians and non elected fascists. I do not use that word flippantly, just check through European history and the ruin that these type of thinkers wrought onto the population. I am and will always be a leave voter, ( I didn't vote to join the EEC), and I was not stupid enough to equate all immigration to EU immigrants but, you have to remember, that illegal and so called asylum seekers come right across all the EU countries to get to the UK, instead of registering in the first country of foot fall, (EU law). I object to the trade protectionism of the EU project the control of who and where the members can trade with outside the EU. New Zealand and Australia were devastated when we joined the EEC in '74 because we wern't allowed to trade with them! As to your last observation regarding being a scoundrel, I served Queen and country for 24 years in the Senior Service and I consider myself a patriotic, loyal and law abiding citizen. I believe socialism has, and always will be, the bane of any free thinking person and country, it brings failure and distress wherever it places it's heavy booted foot.

DJF42 said:
01 December 2018 @ 11:57

Well said karisy.

DJF42 said:
01 December 2018 @ 12:08

I have tried three times to post my non political, no bad language well reasoned comment without success.
Seems like there is a remain algorithm taking control of the comments page.
Just my opinion you understand.

Charlietwice said:
01 December 2018 @ 13:48

I assume the ‘ex pats’ who live and those who have property in Spain, dislike the EU that much they will be selling up in March?

pjck said:
01 December 2018 @ 14:09

Those who want to leave Europe should leave Spain first of all. You are not EU citizens anymore.

Tony said:
01 December 2018 @ 16:53

I am watching events with increasing alarm and despair. I have read the 585 pages of a Transition deal with all its references and complexities.

It is wholly unacceptable, and I have never been so shocked in all my life that intelligent people could even imagine that it is a ‘good deal’. If the Tories cannot deliver a proper Brexit before the next election, then a political chasm is certain, and the election will be lost to Corbyn. The Tories would be in wilderness territory.

I watch politician after politician speak and it is all too clear many have not studied their subject and have little idea of world trade or tariffs. The WTO arrangement with safeguards could be easily applied and would be leaving properly thereby saving us a huge sum. We pay £11bn net member fee, £3.1bn of our Vat, and our non-EU imports are tariffed to the tune of £16bn pa pushing up prices and 80% of this goes to the EU. We are losing £4-5bn pa of our fishing industry Heath gave away. There are several billion £ of pointless grants made with our own money apart from the net member fee, such as ‘set aside’ upon which savings could be made.

The Treasury calculated in 2005 for Gordon Brown, that compliance with EU regulations costs UK industry 6-7% of GDP annually

That is over £130bn pa much of which is wasted costs, yet only 12% of businesses have any direct or indirect business with the EU. The most important thing now is that the UK must not be left having to comply with the EU rulebook in future. Even if full tariffs were imposed under WTO, Sterling would adjust by 4-5% to cope immediately. Average WTO tariffs are 3-5%.

Look instead at the superb options open to us and the EU cannot prevent them if we just leave on WTO- E.g.

1. The UK would receive £12bn pa in tariffs at the full WTO rates if we impose them on our EU imports alone and a further £13-14bn on non-EU imports.

2. We could also choose selective tariffs and impose nil tariffs on any class of imported goods we wish from all the world, such as food, medicine or even car parts.

3. OR We could simply impose no tariffs on anything with no extra customs work required for EU goods and reducing it from the 111 countries with whom we already trade under WTO rules. Imagine REFUNDING our businesses, all WTO tariffs imposed by Brussels (by reduced taxes/business rates or other means) would cost about £6bn, and LESS than our net member fee.
An intelligent application would leave us competitive and in a better place to negotiate excellent trade agreements across the world. There’s no £39bn divorce bill either, an amount the government have never explained or justified. We would be out of the single market and Customs Union and therefore free as an independent sovereign nation should be. People did not vote to be shackled to the EU any longer or the possibility of massive bail outs for Italy, now bust beyond belief as a result of EU policy and the Euro.

The EU would be terrified if we leave under WTO terms because their deal as offered is designed to strip us of all competitive advantage possible. The prize of leaving is huge yet so many are still unaware of the advantages it is very sad. Talk of cliff edge etc is totally wrong if an effort is made to prepare the ground, which could be done very rapidly.

The Prime Minister has deliberately kept two Brexit Secretary’s in the dark about parallel negotiations she has capriciously been conducting. She lives in a parallel universe in relation to the deal she offers. She made encouraging noises about leaving the Single market and Customs Union initially and you all stood on a manifesto promising to do just that. It is essential to leave both to make a success of Brexit, yet her deal is a million miles away from doing this.

She is not being truthful about the nature of this deal as it specifically does NOT deliver the referendum result.

It is a deal for a Transition period only. She should have been negotiating a Withdrawal trade Agreement, which may have contained a brief transition. This proposal has a particularly devastating fault which is inexplicable and dangerous. It does not allow the British government to unilaterally withdraw from the transition period and has no fixed end date by which there must be a Trade Agreement, or automatic withdrawal under WTO, if none were agreed. The transition can be extended indefinitely without any power to stop it - Article 132 is totally unacceptable and No wonder the EU want us to agree it! The EU can then pass laws we must obey which are wholly against our interests, interpreted by the ECJ. We would have to continue funding the EU AT A RATE SET BY THE EU with NO BUDGET REBATE REQUIRED.

EU law will continue to have effect as if we were a member – Article 127. But we won’t have any MEP’s or say over anything we must obey and the ECJ continues its ruinous rule – Articles 86 & 131.

Indeed, the ECJ will remain with us in many ways as it is the final court of interpretation for Mrs May’s deal – Article 174(1). We would have to comply with their Judgement on it, under Article 89(1).

The EU would be able to continue to treat our territorial waters as their own and we may only be ‘consulted’ under Article 130 as to what fishing we may do.

Most of anything useful is contained in the non-binding political declaration and Mrs May is using text from it to try and persuade Britain she has a worthwhile deal. Matters of co-operation can easily be agreed post leaving and piece by piece. This deal is nothing but a surrender. There is no incentive on the EU to agree any form of so called ‘Free Trade’ deal with us and they can continue to disagree with anything we put forward, holding us in a ‘backstop’ customs union they control. We will also be forced to comply with ‘level playing field conditions’ covering tax, environment, employment, state aid and competition policy. See P311. All with no control or say. The backstop also means the UK will be fractured down the Irish sea.

These provisions mean that effectively we are in the single market subject to swathes of public policy. There is scant democracy about the EU now, but this deal is an abrogation of responsibility to maintain and recover all our sovereignty, being the whole point of voting Brexit. There is plenty more alarming stuff, but I have said enough.

There is no right in British law to give a foreign power control of this sort within a Treaty or to pass legislation which cannot be repealed by a successor Parliament. You will not find a Treaty anywhere in the world where the parties have no right to withdraw from it unilaterally.

I therefore ask that you do not support Mrs May’s deal. Otherwise you are voting for a colonial status.

If there’s No Brexit there will be no Tory party and this deal is NOT Brexit. It is essential to vote May’s deal down and put together a safeguarding package to protect our affected industry to leave absolutely and finally under WTO terms. We trade like this with 111 other countries around the world.

408 (62.8%) constituencies voted to LEAVE. It is still not too late to prevent this betrayal by instead leaving on WTO rules. It is the duty of every MP to mobilise and to lobby for that.

We must not be left in the position of a vassal state nor exposed by REMAINING to the enormous liabilities arising from the emerging Eurozone disaster, an EU army and fiscal union.
Yours sincerely,

DJF42 said:
01 December 2018 @ 17:15

Well said Tony, and well done for taking the time and effort to read the whole "agreement".
We must leave with no deal and trade under WTO as you have said, can't believe the blatant lies and propaganda.
Nigal summed it up well when he said to Barnier, "I wish you had been on our side for the negotiations"
Let's hope parliament have the balls to vote NO and we leave with no deal. What have we got to so frightened of.

Tony said:
01 December 2018 @ 17:50

I haven’t read it that is a letter written by a solicitor a man who is far more informed than me as I am an ignorant out voter lol

karisy said:
01 December 2018 @ 18:10

Tony: an extraordinarily detailed & well informed/researched post all of which I agree with. I cannot understand how anyone reading/understanding it could possibly vote for this transitional deal & political statement as it stands. I've been involved in commercial negotiation all my life & if it gets through parliament, the UK is doomed.

As said in my original post, our PM; most of her government & the Civil Service never wanted to leave anyway! The agreement is just a way of forcing the "peoples vote" (another referendum) & splitting the leaving vote to ensure we remain & the EU powers are totally in conspiracy with it.

This will please the remainers but I'll be very surprised if we will be allowed to remain in the EU on the same terms; make no mistake, Brussels will punish us.

Bellachel said:
01 December 2018 @ 18:19

As has been said the only reason Brussels is kick in& screaming & refusing to be reasonable about UK,leaving is as has already been said......the Hrsvytrain if salaries & EXIRBITANT pensions EU officials pay themselves.
Leaving will have no significant affect on the average family......if UK were to stay in the UK it will be ruined by EXIRBITANT demand by those with their noses in the trough.

Charlietwice said:
01 December 2018 @ 20:54

Every single forecast has shown that the uk will be worse off under brexit so not sure where the idea there will not be consequences comes from? It’s the uk that want to leave the Eu not the other way round so why should the Eu bend over backwards. It’s complete arrogance to think they should. What actual benefits do British people who live in Spain get when we leave? Or even if you own a property Here? A no deal would be tragic for most Brits in Spain, something not one person has commented on here. Bringing goods from the other side of the world rather than our closest friends... crazy for the environment and cost. Pensions frozen, pound hammered? 5 million British people in the Eu stand to lose massively here. Many not allowed to vote. The corrupt British political system in full swing.

karisy said:
01 December 2018 @ 22:23

The corrupt (current) British political system is indeed in full swing, all that's being portrayed it's just speculation & even outright lies, it's project fear Mk 4 - or whatever! Forecasts are exactly that; like statistics, they can be tailored to suit every need & in this case it's "lets make life easy in the short term & remain in the EU". Even at best, forecast are a guess & all forecasts made by Europhile establishments since before the original referendum have subsequently proved totally false! The UK economy continues to do tremendously well despite all this pressure, just think for a moment how well it could do without all this scare mongering! If you believe all the latest drivel from Hammond & Carney, your being rather naïve. Incidentally Carney has just become a British Citizen so he can be Knighted whenever he (eventually) stands down; Hammond recently persuaded him to stay beyond his 2019 contract! Hmmm, I wonder why Mother Theresa will be giving him a knighthood then! All this scare mongering is designed to spook, perhaps, the less informed when the demand for another referendum vote becomes inevitable. Negotiations are never easy & at this level you need years of experience & be rather "hard nosed" to get the best deal.

I certainly never expected Brussels to "bend over backwards", quiet the opposite in fact & it's exactly what's happened but why are those who are supposed to be negotiating Brexit doing their best to thwart it? Why have we lost 2 Brexit Ministers? Raab went after the deal he thought he'd negotiated turned out not to be!

Why stick with the constant EU drain on UK resources when there are much better international trade deals to be had, many of which we had to give up when we joined the EEC. Read Tony's contribution to try & have some idea of what's actually going on; you usually need a little pain to make a gain but it will be a very big gain.

Trust me the ex-pats who live in Spain (& I have 4 family member who are) will not have any problems - as long as you have Spanish Residency of course & are not fiddling the system like many do!

Ms Expatwise said:
01 December 2018 @ 23:01

It is ironic that many on this site side with Leave. You are betraying your fellow Brits who have made lives in the EU and who will lose jobs, careers, have families split and for many, a forced return to the UK in poverty. I have no time for these hypocrites who gladly use and abuse the benefits and ideals offered by the European Project, even if these decisions are made in obvious ignorance. It's your choice if you want to be a turkey voting for Christmas. But do care when you cause untold misery to hundreds of thousands of other Brits who unlike you, appreciate what the EU have given to them. You would be more at home in the UK.

Killy said:
02 December 2018 @ 00:13

Why do you think all those Brits are living in Spain/France, because life is better, why? Because these Countries are not overrun with migrants clogging up their health, education and welfare system, and bleeding them dry as in our Country. They are glad to send them all over to us to get rid of them, and the
Migrants are ruining our Country, they are filling our schools our houses and our hospitals. They are handed benefits and what they like most is they don’t have to carry identity cards! It’s just a vicious circle, the more people that live here we are told then we need to accept more to help us in the NHS etc. It’s just crazy. How long can we go on like this? No wonder people go to live in the sunshine and give up on poor old Blighty.

Watchmanager said:
02 December 2018 @ 09:42

I waited to give the poll a chance.
At this time it stands at 55 to 43 to LEAVE with a couple of don't knows. Even more than the referendum.
I'll just point out one thing :-
Why do you think it took only 38 minutes for 27 countries out of 27 countries to ratify Prime minister Mays ( Remainer ) deal.
It's because it's a Fantastic deal for THEM!
However NOT for Great Britain!
Eye on Spains own poll and the attitude of the 27 remaining EU countries shows that the reasons to leave have not changed one iota and we're correct.
I see another referendum happening but it can only be on HOW we leave not if!

karisy said:
02 December 2018 @ 11:29

I too am a little surprised the way the vote has gone so far but the poll question is “which side do you think would win”, not “how would you would personally vote next time around”. I fail to see how those who reside in the UK or Spain & voted leave have betrayed ex-pats living in Spain, the two are unconnected. I love Spain & spend 4 months a year there (rental) but reside in the UK; I’m certainly not a “Turkey voting for Christmas”!

Permanently residing in Spain is your choice & a good one if you make it work. If you have made your life there, work & perhaps own a property you have, presumably, complied with Spanish Residency & Employment law; you are obliged to take residential status if you spend more than 6 months a year there anyway. If you have become a legal resident, you will not suddenly become illegal once the UK leaves the EU. The Guardia Civil are not going to turn up on your doorstep in April & put you on the next Ryanair flight back to the UK. May & the leave agreement gives protection to EU citizens currently resident in the UK &, as far as I’m aware, the agreement is reciprocal in Spain! Providing you are “legally” in Spain, your fears that the UK leaving is going to cause “untold misery to thousands of Brits, splitting up families etc”. is just irrationally based fear.

If you’ve been a Spanish resident for 5 years why not become bullet proof, give up your UK passport & become a Spanish Citizen. However, residing/working in Spain illegally whilst fiddling the UK health/welfare/benefits systems as some are doing is another matter & deserve all you get if you get caught!

Graham said:
02 December 2018 @ 16:32

There is a vast army of trolls (some automated) on the internet that seek out polls and comment forums to post a particular view. We witnessed this with the election of Donald Trump and probably with the UK/EU Referendum (unverified). Since this is an Ex-pat forum it seems odd that the poll suggests that a higher percentage want to still leave the EU given the probable negative impacts on Ex-pats. Whatever the outcome the then and future UK governments will be tasked to make the lives of UK citizens better, if they don't they will be voted out. Ex-pats living in the EU will be at the mercy of their EU governments and this will probably depend on how the UK treats residing EU citizens. It seems likely that there will be a general election rather than another referendum in the UK and it now looks more likely that there will be a hard disorganised exit from the UK on March 29th. Ex-pats in this forum need to consider these worst case scenarios and prepare for them. A sudden fall in the value of the Pound for example will have the most effect on their daily lives if their income comes from pensions in the UK. Flight disruption and healthcare might be worth planning for. It is not believing in or accepting the so called scaremongers to prepare for potential bad outcomes, it is common sense.

Brian said:
03 December 2018 @ 09:29

Killy, I just love it when Spanish immigrants moan about all the immigrants.

Killy said:
03 December 2018 @ 09:35

‘It’s not about the money’Graham all you’re thinking about is yourself,
We want to safeguard our grandchildren’s future.

Killy said:
03 December 2018 @ 09:37

Brian who said I was an immigrant? yes I spend a few months a year there, but I stay true to my Country of birth.

Killy said:
03 December 2018 @ 09:43

Karisy explains exactly how it is, well done, GB♥️

mutley51 said:
15 December 2018 @ 17:09

A very informative read Tony.

If only this level of information was made available to the public at large through the mainstream media, the number of leavers would increase exponentially.

Unfortunately, politicians (other than the true Brexiteers) and the media do not want people to know the facts behind and the benefits available to the UK, if we were to leave on WTO rules and the flexibility we will have to offset any short term adverse effects on our trade. £39 billion would help to start with.

All we hear from the Establishment is that it would result in a "disaster", a "catastrophe" "complete chaos" a "cliff edge" and any other fear factor you could imagine. Of course they are never able to explain why this would be the case other than citing unfounded concerns of the CBI and other institutions or multi-national companies with vested interests in remaining in the EU. Speak to the small an medium sized business operators who employ by far the larger proportion of work in the UK, and you hear a far different story. However, they are never asked to contribute to the debate.

Despite what certain people (Remainers) would have you believe most people clearly understood what they voted for when they voted to leave even with the knowledge imparted by Project Fear.

Leave meant leave - deal or no deal.

Ricardo said:
15 December 2018 @ 20:47

I voted to leave the EU not Europe. I agree with a lot of the stitch up sentament made clear with some of the comments on here. If the backstop option was to revert to a "Common Market" type agreement I for one would have no problem with that.

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