Estate Agents Commission

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24 Oct 2009 00:00 by Frustrated Owner Star rating in Torreblanca del Sol. 56 posts Send private message

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What's the going rate for commission charged by Estate Agents ?



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25 Oct 2009 09:43 by Si`s partner Star rating in WEYBRIDGE , Surrey U.... 60 posts Send private message

I wish we knew, that way we could all value a property properly ,if anyone out there knows the going rate and the extra greedy rate please let us all know , then we can negotiate a price on something we would like to buy !!

It should be (in these staightened times) now more than 2% but have heard of still some greedy buggers adding on 5 plus % to the asking price!!

If one is selling its not so hard to do it yourself these days via th internet , of course the property needs to be priced sensibly otherwise no one will even look at it or even make an enquiry .

Vee



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25 Oct 2009 10:38 by Frustrated Owner Star rating in Torreblanca del Sol. 56 posts Send private message

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5% is crazy ! That means I would have to either inflate the price by €30,000 or take the hit myself.

Oh well, better start trawling through the internet sites to see who gives the best deal.



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25 Oct 2009 23:48 by Team GB Star rating. 1245 posts Send private message

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Hi

Yes it is 5% minimum for an agent that has offices and overheads, they all subscibe to various property sharing listing portals like for example www.infocasa.com if the the agent you instruct sells the property(unlikely) they get the full 5% if another agent gets the first call, ie from the internet etc and then closes the deal, the commision is then shared 2.5% each.

There is a growing number of 'private sale' sites appearing on the internet charging a fixed fee to list your property, the trouble with these  they are by and large poor quality sites that do not rank very highly on google searches etc.

The best way to value a property in Spain is to find out what has sold for what in your street,block or area, many properties have been 'se vende' for years, there are still some good agents around that will give you an honest valuation, the trouble is most brits won't take the advice thinking there pad is 'something special'.

Remember as well if you are sending the money back to the uk at the moment you will benifit from the exchange rate!, you could even make more from this than the agents fees.

Yes agents are greedy, but so are some british vendors, I know a couple who have had there villa for sale for over three years, they just wont reduce the price from 560k even though they have owned it for 17 years!!, they are puting there retirement on hold, because they are greedy.

s



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26 Oct 2009 12:49 by EOS Team Star rating in In Spain of course!. 4018 posts Send private message

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This is always a great topic!

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day about this very subject.  He is an estate agent and is finding it very tough at the moment.

Most of the properties he is selling are around 150K or less mark.  For very 100 customers he reckons he converts only 3 - 4% of those.  He has to show a lot of people around a lot of properties to make those 3 or 4 sales.

He charges 5% commission.  As most sales are split commissions, as they have been listed by another agent, he makes 2.5% on a sale.

Another agent I know only sells properties that he himself has listed and charges 3% which he doesn't need to share with anyone else.

Most agents today are struggling even at these commission levels mainly because only cheap property is selling and many prospective purchasers cannot get mortgages so these take up a lot of time and yield nothing.

This isn't my view, just the way things are today.

Justin



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26 Oct 2009 13:04 by joanmalaga Star rating in Costa del Sol. 420 posts Send private message

Depends on area and agency, quite a few agencies are dropping their commissions so look around. What area is the property in?





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26 Oct 2009 13:44 by Frustrated Owner Star rating in Torreblanca del Sol. 56 posts Send private message

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The property is at the top of Torreblanca del Sol, Fuengirola near Hacienda La Venta



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26 Oct 2009 15:53 by georgia Star rating in Algorfa (As seen on .... 1835 posts Send private message

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 Totally agree Justin..........

We charge 3% and our average sale price this quarter is 65,000€ giving us 1,950€ per sale.

When you look at Uk agents charging 2% of an average of £160,000, we do come off worse.

When you consider staff costs,wages,office costs,assorted overheads,Tax, Suma,car payments,Fuel,utilities etc etc etc we do not make a great deal of money....

I find most people are happy to get a sale at the moment but if we sell them quickly it's money for nothing...if we take our time we are bl****y useless!!!

The only advantage at the moment is that it should send the get rich quick scumbags back under the rocks they crawled out from when they heard the jingle of cash that sounded the start of the boom............

 



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04 Nov 2009 22:38 by Homefinder Star rating in Moraira. 36 posts Send private message

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At the end of the day very few properties achieve the asking price. Consequently the seller has to consider if the offer is worth accepting. At that point as well the estate agent has to declare the commission.

So what difference does it make nif it is 5% or 1%? The seller can either accept or deline.

Homefinder



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12 Nov 2009 20:36 by roybud Star rating in UK. 36 posts Send private message

I have posted before on this very subject. In my previous experience working with an English agent selling country houses in the Granada region (I could mention the name but not sure I should), the vendor would set a price they wanted and the agent would simply add on what they wanted to the asking price, sometimes as much as 30k or 40k euros on a 100k property - thats 30% or 40%!! The vendors didn't know what the agent was charging and the buyers didn't know they were paying so much over the top, most were paying in cash and never got a valuation carried out. Things might be changing now mainly due to the poor market conditions and agents cannot be so greedy if they want to compete. I also understand that a law has been passed that requires agents to declare their commission now. This was always a pet hate of mine, to see how Brits were being ripped off by other Brits pretending to be their friend in finding their perfect 'dream home' in the sun.





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12 Nov 2009 21:55 by Homefinder Star rating in Moraira. 36 posts Send private message

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RoyBud -

I aired my opinion in my very last post.

You are absolutely right, current market conditions and buyers getting wized up about paying cash has changed everything.

These days, in the Moraira Area, the commission is initally set at 5%. However, everyone makes an offer and the estate agent sets the offer amount and terms out for the seller, showing as well the actual commission to be paid. Everyone gets a lawyer who handles the money and estate agents insist on this, so everything has to be above board.

Many sales here are villas with private pools from 300,000 upwards, so 5% is a lot of money. At the end of the day they may have to reduce to 3%, or even less for a very expensive property, in order the achieve a sale.

I think its all coming into the realms of reality now. What do you think?

Homefinder



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13 Nov 2009 12:34 by roybud Star rating in UK. 36 posts Send private message

Homefinder

Yes I think thankfully there is a big reality check happening. Finally people are waking up to what was the madness of buying property in Spain over the last decade. Crooked agents, naive buyers, greedy developers and a corrupt and largely unregulated legal system all conspired to create the total mess that we see today.

I have been calling for agents and the property market in general to be better regulated and hopefully the authorities are starting to address this. The trouble is everything happens so slowly in Spain and where they do take action they seem to pick on one or two 'victims' and make examples of them while in reality the majority are still getting away with things just the same as ever.

However, ultimately buyers not only in Spain but in other countries around the world have to stop looking at these markets as being the same as the UK. The UK is a small, over-crowded island that consistantly has a shortage of housing for the ever expanding population. The property market is well established and highly regulated so everyone pretty much knows where they stand. As a result, one can generally sell a property within a reasonable period of time at a clearly definable market price.

Spain (and other overseas markets) is totally different and does not have the same factors. Spain is a huge country with a vast over-supply of property and a relatively small population, under-regulated market, and a wide variety of prices, particularly in the countryside. Thus there is no guarantee of prices increasing or being able to sell a property when needed. There is in my view simply no investment potential.

The real sadness is I have seen people buy what they thought was their dream home in order to begin a new chapter in their lives, pay way over the top for the property because they were persuaded by their 'friendly British agent' who convinced them that everything would be fine (exactly what they wanted to hear) only to find that the dream has turned sour and they are left with a property that they don't have a hope in hell of selling or even giving away! These are real people and real lives that have been destroyed as a result.

I just hope that things really will change now and that people can start to trust the system and all that work in it.





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16 Nov 2009 16:45 by televisiontechnology Star rating in Costa Blanca South. 165 posts Send private message

Well put Roy,

I have links with investors and over the past couple of years all have pulled out of any type of property / construction investment in Spain - due to the lack of regulation, outline planning and general level of corruption. That and most of them have had their fingers burnt....

It is most unfortunate as not only are the smaller home owners affected - but large commercial investment from overseas for construction of Nursing homes, Solar power plants - all potential investors have walked away from Spain due to these problems. This will cost the Spanish economy 100's of millions.

Unless a substantial change is made, things will only go from bad to worse.

Back in 2008 I represented a large construction company (UK owned - head office in Granada) that actively campained for things to be done differently to avoid the looming disaster. This letter (in accurate Spanish) was sent to the minister of housing - who is supposed to reply within a month. We have never had a response.

Beatriz Corredor Sierra, (minister of housing)
Ministra de Vivienda
Paseo de la Castellana, 112
28071, MADRID
 
26 June 2008

Dear Minister,


In 2007, Spain’s property boom ground painfully to a halt. The result of a decade of frantic building activity based more on greed than the need for housing has brought about a situation where Spain has a huge housing surplus, an economy addicted to cement and a coastline which suggests that bribes are still effective when it comes to planning matters.

For ten years the property market has served Spain well, providing employment for millions of people as well as a significant percentage of the revenue required by the country. However, hidden behind this impressive information is the simple fact that the Spanish property market has been hit by a never ending stream of bad news involving corruption scandals, illegal building, demolition threats, land grabs, over-development, dishonest and corrupt estate agents, corrupt and incompetent lawyers, tales of huge, obscene commissions and countless stories from unhappy owners, buyers, and investors.
 
With newsgroups, bulletin boards, web sites and much of the British and European media now bored witless by the sheer weight of complaints about Spanish property there can be few today who when considering buying a house abroad consider Spain for long if at all. For many - foreigners and Spaniards alike, buying a property in Spain has proved to be akin to playing hopscotch on a minefield.

Minister, we are aware that you have been inundated with requests from constructors, estate agents and others working within the property market for action which will hopefully kick-start the market. However, with a glut of almost 1 million homes in Spain and many people trying to sell their holiday homes, we are not convinced that anything wonderful is going to happen soon. This being the case, we would like to suggest that you turn your attention to the property market in an attempt to rid it permanently of the fraud and corruption with which it has been associated for so long.
 
We appreciate that the government has made inroads into this problem with several mayors and others having been imprisoned and others awaiting trial but the corruption which concerns us is that which affects the single property buyer and who can end up losing everything. Unfortunately, most of the people caught up in the various types of property fraud are foreigners who simply are ignorant of the laws, habits and culture and who believe that as with most other European countries, laws will be in existence which will protect them not only from the actions of others but those of themselves.

Fraud involving foreigners is no worse than fraud involving Spaniards save for one fact. Foreigners are usually able to find powerful sources to whom they can complain. Usually the media in their own countries, each such complaint when reported can and does influence the actions of many people who had been set on taking the same route as the complainant but now decide against it. The loser is of course the Spanish property market.

We are a small firm of constructors, dealing in the main with foreigners wishing to either retire to Spain or live and work here permanently. We know from our own experience of these people that many are now turning away from Spain simply because of the risks involved with purchasing Spanish property. The only comforting advice available to these people seems to be along the lines of finding themselves a good, competent lawyer when everything should be OK. There are enough demolition orders on properties throughout Spain to cast extreme doubt on the ability of many Spanish lawyers to keep their clients out of trouble. All too often, the lawyer ends up part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution. The intention here is not to insult or denigrate the Spanish legal profession but with the greatest of respect its role in the purchase of Spanish property may well benefit by a glance from government.


In 2006, 22,600 of the 900,000 Spanish property transactions inscribed in the Spanish property register involved British buyers - making them the biggest single group of property buyers after the Spanish themselves. Too many of these people ended up in situations which should not have happened. Dishonest estate agents coupled with lazy and incompetent lawyers have left many with land upon which they cannot build, houses in which they cannot live and every situation imaginable in between. In the meantime, the L.R.A.U. Act Valencia 1994 (condemned by the EU) and the L.U.V. which replaced it (and just as enthusiastically condemned by the EU) lays in wait for those victims who may not yet have heard of Spain’s Land Grab acts. In total, the British represent over 60% of all European demand for holiday homes in Spain and each time British demand falls, it puts pressure on the Spanish market.

Earlier we mentioned that in the main we dealt with foreign retirees. These are a particularly unique group of people who in the main are unaffected by credit squeezes etc., having planned their retirement and organised their finances some years ago. Demand for Spanish property among this group of people has fallen seriously even though they are financially well off. Perhaps the fact that those with a budget for overseas property know they now have a far greater choice of destinations than ever before and they are starting to exercise these options - finding them preferable to the risks associated with buying Spanish property.

The constant threats of demolition by what potential buyers see as the “bullying state” don’t help matters at all and they need to be quickly removed. Demolition should only be carried out if it can be shown that there was clear intention on behalf of the owners to disregard or ignore the law for whatever reason and it should be carried out quickly. For others, whose only crime appears to have been appointing an incompetent lawyer or deceived by an estate agent or developer the situation is very different. Little point exists in punishing the victims for the incompetence or dishonest actions of those they retained to represent them. Punishing them can never be effective as a deterrent. Instead, the law should pursue all those responsible, dealing with them firmly and in high profile manner in order that not only justice be done but be seen to be done. The threat of demolition is an ongoing saga which needs to end. It’s an ill wind which blows no good and something most decent people find offensive.

Your predecessor, Maria Antonia Trujillo, correctly observed that more qualifications are required to sell a lettuce than to sell a house. However, the revelation of this remarkable fact seems to have brought about little by way of change despite revealing an obvious weakness in the system.

As long as the sun shines on Spain there are going to be foreigners who wish to live here. They will contribute considerably to Spain’s economy by purchasing property and cashing their retirement cheques each month. Relations and friends will visit them and their expenditure whilst here will also benefit Spain. However, many potential buyers of Spanish property who are well funded simply have no confidence in the property market for a variety of known reasons and currently will not buy.

We sincerely believe that immediate changes in the way the property market operates are necessary and if brought about will bring immediate and needed benefits. Among many potential buyers of Spanish property there exists a single common denominator which is: allowing that the government must know of the things which are wrong why does it allow them to continue? Anything the government does now will go a long way to answering this question which is not only being asked by buyers of Spanish property but another group which is equally or more important and for years has had hundreds of British buyers arriving at Spanish airports each month.

These are the UK estate agents who have chosen to specialise in selling property abroad but who have shown an increasing reluctance in dealing with the Spanish property market because of the seemingly never ending problems. To understand their reluctance requires only that you know that under UK law, any person involved in any part of a commercial action for which they will receive payment can be held responsible for any losses or damages incurred by the buyer. Therefore any client referred by a UK estate agent suffering loss can simply look to the agent in the UK for compensation and not have to become involved in the Spanish legal system.

We believe that confidence in the property market, particularly among foreigners wishing to live permanently in Spain would be improved considerably and possibly far beyond what it had ever been if there were a house buyers charter which guaranteed to protect them from fraud or incompetence. If you feel the cost of this would be too great then you are clearly aware of the problems. However, the costs of operating such a charter could be reduced almost to nothing by ensuring that Estate Agents were required to undergo formal training at the end of which they would be examined and if successful, licensed to practice. Further, once licensed they would be required to carry malpractice insurance and it would be obligatory to prove to all clients that such insurance existed and was currently in force.

When selling property in Spain there seems to be no standard on how it should be measured and sized. As a result, the size of a building can vary by us much as one third simply by including terraces, flat roofs, staircases and patios etc. There should be one basic measurement which only concerns useable living space. We use this method ourselves, even though in comparisons with other properties our own property appears to be smaller, even though the reverse is usually the case. Other salient measurements such as roof terraces, balconies etc can be included separately but will not create the misunderstanding which they usually do and which in many cases is intended.

Competence among many lawyers leaves a lot to be desired and in some cases so does integrity. Lawyers are the subject of many justifiable complaints by buyers. The habit enjoyed by many lawyers of demanding fees “upfront” is something which should be stopped. They should be allowed to ask for a deposit in order to qualify that their appointment is genuine and to invoice for work in progress but the significant part of the bill should be collected when the work is done and a final itemised invoice is provided in writing. All too often we have seen “raring to go enthusiasm” evaporate or stall once a lawyer has received his full fee in advance of carrying out any work.

All lawyers practicing law should be required to carry malpractice insurance which in the event of them being held responsible for any act of incompetence or neglect is more than adequate for the purposes of providing full compensation. Lawyers should not be able to limit their liabilities by any means other than insuring them.

The quaint habit of Lawyers under-declaring the purchase value of a property to evade tax should be ended. Enough is known about the practice to know that the buyer has never benefited from the procedure, which when carried out makes him immediately guilty of tax evasion. How are housing figures issued by the Ministry to be taken seriously when a significant, unknown percentage of the purchase price of each property sold is being withheld from them and apparently with their full blessing!

Cap commissions for all property sales to a maximum of 5% per sale with the seller being required to declare in writing to the buyer what his commission is. Move the overcharging of commissions from civil law to criminal law.

With Spain not having a system for outline planning, the purchase of land upon which it is hoped to build can be risky. Where land is being purchased for the construction of a private house, purchase should not be able to take place until construction has been approved by planning and other relevant authorities. Deposits for land purchase should be held in escrow by a bank or lawyer acting for the purchaser and refunded in full if planning is refused. If planning is approved, the price agreed for the purchase of the land shall be that agreed initially in writing between seller and buyer. Should the land purchase fail to take place within 3 months from the approval of planning then the buyer should be entitled to review his selling price. Should the buyer withdraw from the sale following planning approval his deposit should be forfeit to the vendor.

Many potential buyers of Spanish properties are deterred by the fact that there have been many cases in Spain of building being approved but at a later stage being refused by a greater authority to the detriment of the owner. As to how this situation can come about is irrelevant but any authority giving permission to any person or organisation for the construction of a building should be responsible in law for its decision. If a greater authority at a later stage shall deem the construction illegal, then the granting authority should be responsible for all losses incurred by the constructor and those instructing him. Further time limits for recompensing should be set so as to avoid long, unreasonable delays.

Previously mentioned is the L.R.A.U. Act Valencia 1994 and the act which replaced it (L.U.V.) Both of these acts are iniquitous pieces of legislation and have been abused by corrupt officials and developers alike. Known almost universally by the foreign media as the "Land Grab Act" this legislation serves to do nothing now other than to keep Spain held in contempt by far too many people. It is doing dreadful damage to the Spanish property market with many boycotting Valencia and other parts of Spain simply because they have no desire to provide the roads and infrastructure for urbanizations they are never going to live on. The European Union has ruled against both of these acts and it is now time for them to be trashed – something which should have happened long ago. They are associated with dishonesty and unfairness and the longer they are allowed to exist, the more damage will be done to Spain. It is clear now that if these acts last for another hundred years they will never be able to achieve what they were designed for so no logical reason exists for them not to be axed.

Foreigners are important to the Spanish Property Market and logic points towards encouraging them to invest in Spain but in real terms, their treatment, together with that of many Spaniards whose only interest was in buying property has been an outrage, with the government doing little or nothing about the frauds perpetrated against them. Despite the fact that these frauds were regularly being reported by the foreign media the government did little and the damage to the property market continued.

To add insult to injury, today as the effect of interest rate hikes start to bite, the banks or some of them are up to their old tricks with their treatment of repossessions. In common with many others, we are being offered property from a variety of sources at knock down prices but where the proviso is for large amounts of under declared black cash. The idea of the property being sold to raise as much money as possible so as to be able to discharge the banks debt and return as much as possible to the previous owner is laughable. The previous owner is going to be very lucky to see a single cent of the proceeds, unlike the many cronies who gather around on the day of the sale to share in the plunder. Strict, laws are needed to monitor and control the disposal of repossessed property and to afford maximum protection to the former owner.

We have already mentioned the negative effect of demolition orders on properties belonging to both Spaniard and foreigner alike. We would ask both the National government and that of the Autonomies to look sympathetically at as many of these properties as possible in the hope of being able to legalise some of them.

One final point which is worth considering is that for anyone to be able to buy and sell a property in Spain requires that his property increase in value by at least 20 per cent just to pay for the buying and selling costs.

Minister, as foreigners living in your country we both are aware of our right to do so but have always held the belief that primarily Spain is for the Spanish. For our part we are grateful to be in Spain and this letter should not be considered as a complaint but rather something constructive which may point to ways of quickly resolving some of the problems within the property market and helping to re-establish confidence in it – particularly with foreigners.

As a courtesy, I must inform you that once you have received this letter, copies will be made available to the media in Spain, many of whom hold an interest in this subject and have campaigned actively on some of the points contained within.
 
The simple fact that in spite of many warnings, they were all ignored - generally due to the level of easy money back handers involved with zero legal retribution.
 
The only way Spain can save itself is by a dramatic uturn of policy and to protect the buyers and investors.
 
Paul.

 

 

 



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16 Nov 2009 17:16 by roybud Star rating in UK. 36 posts Send private message

televisiontechnology

What an excellent letter! It perfectly encapsulates all the problems in the Spanish market - "playing hopscotch in a minefield" sums it up perfectly. I am not surprised either that you received no reply, that just sums up how seriously the Spanish aurthorities take these issues. Did you get anywhere with the Spanish press? It is about time all of this was published and the Spanish were shamed into doing something about it before anymore innocent victims are thrown to wolves. We have all known that it goes on and we have said nothing and quietly gone along with it but surely enough is enough. Perhaps we should start a campaign to expose all those that contribute to the corruption from the top down!

Roybud





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16 Nov 2009 23:35 by televisiontechnology Star rating in Costa Blanca South. 165 posts Send private message

No we got we did not get very far with the English press, though the UK media was briefly interested in the letter - having said that it was probably lost on a myriad of other complaints that people were writing in at the time.

We did at one stage come quite close to being sued by the head of one of the largest law firms in Madrid - for accusing certain lawyers for misadvising clients. Fortunately the 50 or so email & letters on this subject we had from private individuals stopped this matter progressing further.

Firstly - I would dearly love to right all the wrongs, throw those into jail that deserve it and refund everyones money who has been caught by the unscrupulous individuals out there - however.....I do not have the time or the money - it takes so long to fight anything in Spain, that you have to ask yourself the question - why bother in the first place?

Secondly - apparently I look better without a bullet hole in my head!

I believe that a shift of generation will fix this matter. Younger generation has a different mentality - unfortunately i'll probably be bankrupt or on my pension by then :)

Paul

 

 

 



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19 Nov 2009 10:52 by Si`s partner Star rating in WEYBRIDGE , Surrey U.... 60 posts Send private message

We found a house we liked in Olvera  after looking at so many , found out on another website that it had been on market for 3 years , first for over 200,000 Euros , then recently 140,000 and now last Oct when we found it its now 108,000, all these prices are ambitious to say the least !!

Getting a rough quote for works needed was approx 58000Euros and  NOT including IVA and Licences etc , we are going to offer 80,000 , tell the `builder` to sling it , and if offer accepted will not pay a deposit until a Survey has been done, we know it needs roof taken off and redoing, all new electrics , plumbing , doors , windows , kitchen , bathrooms , all this to make it habitable not to jaust move in and make `pretty` !!

The `rough` quote made us laugh , we originally wanted a small plunge pool , then we decided this was pushing up the cost too much so we said forget the pool , the Spanish builder tells usit wont make any difference to the price !! Eh ?!!!!!!!!!!

Wake up guys, the gravy days are over , people are still willing to buy a house but firstly price it right , then you builders, seeing as about 98% of you are out of work how about doing work offered to you for a sensible sum , not a crazy figure plucked out of the air or none of you will ever work again because you are putting yourselves out of work with such greedy attitudes , no one expects work to be done cheaply, we don`t want that , we want a very good job done and expect to pay a fair price too but please stop looking upon us all as your cash cows, THOSE DAYS ARE OVER  , GET USED TO IT AND GET IN THE REAL WORLD !!

Then, just maybe people from other countries will come back , until you change they won`t , well not the ones you really want !!

We are prepared to have to walk away AGAIN , but there is only so much a place is worth and until the Spanish AND Brits reaslise this then those house will fall further into disrepair and no one will want them , not unless the price is dropped to that level that makes it worth refurbishing  or reforming .

The house we like will probably be on the market for another 3 years if our offer is not accepted and probably will be increased when /if the market improves , shame really , it would be another old Town house saved and Spanish Heritage preserved !

Si


 



This message was last edited by Si`s partner on 19/11/2009.

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19 Nov 2009 12:20 by televisiontechnology Star rating in Costa Blanca South. 165 posts Send private message

Sounds like the usual - pluck a price out of thin air!

I was once told that generally in Spain the valuation put on land or property is determined by how much the owner needs at the time!  Very realistic.

It does appear that finally a few locals are facing up to their houses / land is simply not going to sell at the prices they were a few years ago - however many are stubborn and will not sell at a realistic price.

The fact is the house prices were 50% over valued in the first place - so they are back where they should have been. Unfortunately not much consolation for those of us who paid too much for their properties.

In terms of building works, I have seen many examples of half finished jobs, builders running off with a large deposit and works costing €30,000 more than anticipated - all of which you could do without.

To protect yourself get a private conteact drawn up, properly translated into Spanish, covering all the works - then get notorised. If a builder will not put formal pen to paper on this type of contract - then simply don't deal with them.

While your at it, if you are using an estate agent - tell them the most you'll pay is .€5000 of commission, this is more than enough - 10% - 20% simply is not on anymore (shouldn't have been in the first place).

 

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 


 



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19 Nov 2009 15:05 by Si`s partner Star rating in WEYBRIDGE , Surrey U.... 60 posts Send private message

That was good to know Paul , we at times begin to think we are either crazy or out of touch !!

You did mean 5% didn`t you and not 5000 e commision  to an Agent , as they only get 1.5 - 2 here in UK why on earth should they expect to get a lot more in Spain in the present climate , 2% is more than enough for most of `em , the few who are very professional again should be entitled to a maximum of 3-3.5 % , it should be in increments according to the asking price and the condition not just a big `blanket` price !

As for the builders, thank you sooooo much for that tip , again same as here in UK but the drawback is that when a builder realises he may be into costs if he does not complete in time they tend to `load` the quote from the outset so one is screwed either way !!

We would never give `em a deposit anyway , if a builder is worth his salt he should have a slush fund to begin with and payment in stages , but we will insist on a contract no fear , had enough problems in that dept here in deepest Surrey where , as in Spain , the builders all think anyone living in Elmbridge Borough are minted , in Spain they asssume we are all minted also, its either that or just bloody stupid enough to pay up which sadly a lot of `not too bright Brits` have done over the years, especially in places like Torreavieca or whatever its called, you know , the place that looks like Coronation Street but with stucco and `balustrades` near Benidorm UGH !!!

Well we are NOT minted , we are just a couple who would like to have a nice home in Olvera , Andulcia without the greed and hassle that has always put us off over the past 14 years of looking, if this house doesn`t come off then we may have to just finally give in and look in another country that is more reasonable and not so greedy , shame really because we love the culture , way of life and the country , its just that the ugly greed of all around just stops anyone appreciating what there is .

We still live in hope !! Vee



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19 Nov 2009 16:21 by televisiontechnology Star rating in Costa Blanca South. 165 posts Send private message

Actually I did mean €5000 not 5% - which is still too much, as you say - in comparison with the UK. In fairness its probably a little more difficult to sell a house in Spain - give there are over a 1,000,000 houses standing unsold!  Fact is houses are so cheap that 1.5% of an average Spanish property is not so much money. Eitherway estate agents charges in Spain are less than they were and hopefully they'll stay that way around.

According to Spanish (civil) law, last time I checked - 5% is the maximum permissable allowance for an agent to take on a property for commissions. Atlas, Masa, Medsea and a few of the other big boys were taking 20% for years on end and no one - even the smaller agents were taking 10% or so on many properties......and you wonder where there are (sorry were) so many estate agents in Spain.

Building - stage deposit is a good way to about this. Split works into 5 or 6 stages, payable at the end of each section at the agreed specified costs. Many builders have be so quiet, that perhaps if offered a job now, they may make an effort to do this properly.....

Be very careful with land and old fincas in Andalucia . rustic land / borders / family ownership etc - employ a lawyer OUT of the local area - so you know they do not have any involvement with the locals.

Unfortunately greed is everywhere - just in some places more obviously than others.

Good luck with your property

 

Paul

 

 

 

 



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19 Nov 2009 22:30 by Si`s partner Star rating in WEYBRIDGE , Surrey U.... 60 posts Send private message

Thanks again Paul , still can`t get my head around 5000 e for selling a small house, thats almost £4500 which still seems a bit over the top , its always bothered me that some Agents , especially the Brit ones have absolutley no experience of Estate Agency work , they move to Sapin and Presto they are suddenley Agents , they still don`t know anything about property ( as we have always found out ) dso why anyone should pay them that much is beyond me , if the Vendor wants to pay that their look out ,we shall walk away as we do know what property is worth both here in UK and in Spain , we have years of practice !!

If Agents can only command 1.5-3 % here for excellent property how come these so called Agents in Spain can demand 5% or more , the houses selling at present are cheaper than UK , the work the Agents does is little , most have no more than a tiny office and a website!

You are so right about Lawyers too , we have one who is based  some miles away in Tarifa , also a builder we have had recommended from Arriate , we too think its always best to have as much from outside the area , that way one does not upset people or get into difficult situations with people who live in the same town, too much like incest !!!

Glad to say its not an old Finca but a town house which, one hopes will not pose any problems , we tend to want to know the ins and outs of a crabs bum before we part with ANY money , too many s...s out there , in any country , probably more here in UK granted but none the less one is always on ones guard .

Will let you know if we get the place, may start a blog if we do , will be quite informative and amusing I hope !!

 

Regards Vee



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