Can I afford to live in Spain - Serious question

Bring a couple of cases of Boschendal and some biltong with you, and you'll have a ready made friend inTorremolinos - although there are other ways to make friends here - ask Smiley about that  
Nothing wrong with beer and wine in excess up my neck of the woods, but if you like the fancy drinks, I can recommend the Margarittas at Playa Miguel down by the beach at La Carihuela. http://www.playamiguel.es/principal.html Great atmosphere, too. Think Camps Bay. (No, really, Smiley, that's an actual place in SA!!!!!)

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Best way to make friends I have found is with a little Fuschia dress that I have - wasp waisted and sort of bustier top end. Pair it with the highest stillettos you can find and they will be after you in droves - if there is a strawberry Daiquiri in one hand then I imagine it might even be easier. Camps Bay or not!!!

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In the news today......South African emigrant, on encountering dangerous new breeds of chimp and aligator in southern Spain, decides he is safer staying in SA where the wildlife is more predictable, after all...............

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Ya well no fine

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Climatewise, Ivor, perhaps you should look at Almería.  It is drier and warmer in winter than the CDS, in fact is the driest place in mainland Europe.  The landscape is of the love-it-or-hate-it variety:  we fell hopelessly in love with it nearly ten years ago and would not live anywhere else.  We have never had a Christmas day when we have not been able to stay outside in short sleeves until well into the afternoon, and we swim some years into November with no pool heating.  The months when it can be chillier in the evenings are January and February. 

There are reasonably priced properties here not too far in from the coast and it is definitely a buyers' market at the moment.  Like anywhere else, there are areas which are much more desirable than others and in a short visit it is hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff.  If you are interested in knowing a bit more, don't hesitate to pm me.

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Work may be a problem and certainly a long trek to Gib every day!!

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I must say my biggest concern is work, at least until we decide whether to start a business or not. Work=location unfortunately.  A further dilemma is that I have done my own thing for 23 years and the thought of an 8 to 5 day (or equivelent) doesn't go down so well. How on earth am I going to get out at nine, get to the coffee bar, read their paper, have an anchovette toast then finish it off with a cigar.  It's called a mindset change. We will plan our two or three week trip very carefully in terms of what we need to check out, meet people, maybe a prospective employer or two and of course where to settle. Almeira does sound good - I just have no idea. I am absorbing all your info like a sponge, so please keep it coming.  

Roberto, plenty of good biltong recipes on the web. 1KG of siverside, cut into strips, seasoned and popped (hung) in a home made biltong maker. An old chest of drawers or broom cupboard type unit works. Door in the front with a hole in the bottom for a fan, (must be quite powerful) and a hole at the top for the air to get out.  In 4 days you have biltong. Lot cheaper than  R140.00 per kg. A glass of Boschendal Blanc de Noir and you're there.

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Hi

Can you afford to live in Spain?  The answer is simple - IF you own your own property AND you are prepared to eat in nearly every night, AND can grow some of your own veg, then you can probably live.  My advice is to look inland where prices are much cheaper than the coast.

Also, don't forget that Spain is nice and hot in the summer (forget paying for A/C!) but in winter it gets COLD.  Heating bills are less that U.K. but not much, and older houses are not well insulated.

I personally prefer Granada province to Almería - very scenic.

Finding work?  Good luck with that one.  Used to be that you could pick up labouring here and there, but the Ecuadorians and the economy crash have put paid to that one.

Best possibility - 3 months in U.K. working and 9 months in Spain with a cerveza. 

Good Luck

Max

 

 

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Hi Max,  Thanks for the feedback. 

On what sort of income are you basing this on. This is the scariest answer I've had so far and would like you to expand on it. I definitely don't want to trade downwards. Look forward to your reply.

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Hi Ivorb

For me to be any more helpful, you would need to tell me what you can do for a living (Can't seem to find the original question amongst the threads - but I am a bit new to forum use).  I guess you live in South Africa, and are used to good weather.  Then forget utterly northern Spain.  Spain is divided horizontally on the weather map.  North of Madrid it never seems to stop raining, snowing, hailing, thundering, freezing etc.  South of Madrid (and, of course this effectively includes all of the costas) the weather is fantastic in the summer.  We in Castilléjar, in the province of Granada get week after week of blue skies and 32ºC interspersed with the very occasional terrific thunderstorm.  Winters are VERY cold at night, but pleasant (cardie weather) in the daytime.  The night cold (minus 10º normally) is a very dry cold, so doesn't feel like the less cool air that you get on the Med.  On the coast the cool damp air comes in and feels a lot colder than inland.

I have to say that we have lived in Spain for 12 years, and there have been some hairy times (usually to do with money, or lack of it) but never once have we wished that we were back in England (or anywhere else for that matter).  We love Spain, the Spanish, the food, the booze, but the bottom line is that you have to earn a living in a country that, like all of the west, is in recession, in Spanish.  

Post details of what you can do and I will do my best to advise.

Will see if I can attach some photos.

Max

I have uploaded some images to a folder called /Max but don't know if I've done it correctly - can you see them?

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Good morning Max

To put photographs on the forum you need a host a/c like http://photobucket.com/ . Then put photos from your desktop into photobucket & paste the URL into the scene 3rd from right above the post.

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If i was 55 with 250k in my pocket i'd do as the germans do, rent and put the lot in an high interest account.
That way if life in spain wasnt for me i'd have no hassle leaving.
 

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I've been spending the last few days in Munich, love the green green grass of home, but to get green you need loads of rain, think I'll stick to brown and dry Madrid.

Regarding employment your best bet is probably Barcelona or Madrid, along the coast it is more touristy and seasonal. Doesn't mean you can't find work but best to go where the companies are. Unfortunately the biggest issue you will face, particularly around Madrid are wages. Generally speaking as an accountant you can expect to earn in the 20.000€ a year, not near enough to live on. Most Spanish households are two income. Which brings another point which I don't understand about Spain. The siesta, generally speaking the working hours are 8-2 and 4-7  (or 8-2 and 5-8 in retail) which means you and the wife leave at 7am and arrive home, depending on how far you go, around 8pm. I still don't understand how anyone, other than a retiree could handle a daily two hour lunch. 

As others have mentioned best bet is to rent for a while. the housing boom is off so there's no hurry to buy. Renting allows you flexibility. 

Quick question, do you, or can you get a working permit for Spain.

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" I still don't understand how anyone, other than a retiree could handle a daily two hour lunch.".
When you know the answer to your question then you will understand the Spanish, the country and the reason you are here!!!
Regards
Georgia

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Thanks Max.  Yes will have about 250K on arrival, plus about 2k per month income from SA. Work will be the problem, as I don't want to go downhill. However, good weather is extremely critical so we need mild winters. Not worried too much about max temp in summer. We are used to being cooked with high humidity. I am an accounting software consultant, fairly good IT skills as well as being an accountant proper, but no Spanish (yet). Certainly won't be able to converse in a business environment. Rob, I do have a British Passport. Someone suggested I would probably get IT work in Gib and then cross the border each day. Another option. 

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Max Kite said - Can you afford to live in Spain?  The answer is simple - IF you own your own property AND you are prepared to eat in nearly every night, AND can grow some of your own veg, then you can probably live. 

I think it depends on the individual, how do you live now, do you eat out a lot or once or twice a week.

When we go on holiday to Florida we eat out every night even though we hire a villa.  When in Spain we eat in most nights, I shop at the local markets for fresh veg and we both eat fish so we experiment with the different varieties available.

With your income (2k euros?) you should be able to live comfortably.  The only thing that concerns me is that you want a large property and large properties are expensive to run.

I think that's where most people go wrong when they decide to live in Spain, it always amazes me when I read the I want list of all the newbies.  Most want a large property with pool but need a job to maintain this lifestyle.

What I'm trying to say is why not live in Spain as the Spanish do.  They've survived all these years in apartments and small country houses.

They know to eat a large meal at lunchtime to fill them up until they eat again very late in the evening when it's cooler to eat.

Most people when asked why they want to move out to Spain will say that it's the Spanish lifestyle but do they live it.  They live as though they are on holiday and wonder why their money runs out.  Also they have false expectations of how much money they will earn if and when they can get a job.

I read two threads on this site, one said an accountant would earn 20k euros in Madrid? on another someone wanted to earn at least 80k euros! and they still needed to learn Spanish.

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Hi Ivorb and all,

250K with 2k per month?  EASY!

My advice:  Come to Spain and rent a property inland - say 1 hour from the coast.  You should get something nice enough for 400€ p.c.m.  Spend AT LEAST 2 months touring around (NOTE: this is not holidaying).  Then you will have a hands on experience of life in Spain.

I would like to think that you will settle inland, like us, as I think it is much more interesting, and life goes on outside of high season.  I love going to the coast (we go to Mojacar, Almería) in winter.  Sunny day, beautiful beach and NO-ONE!  The whole beach to walk on to yourself.  But imagine living there, most places shut up until next season, no real village life.  Contrast this with an Andalusian village, with farmers going out early of a morning to their land.  Bars with locals chatting away.  Expat organized walks / Hash House whatever / pottery and painting groups.  People in the street saying Buenos dias.  Rivers, lakes etc.

Where we live, 2K a month would see you in comfort (assuming no mortgage).  During your 2 months, you could find a nice rural property for, say, 150,000€ (there are hundreds nay thousands), which for this price would be in good condition.  Spend another 20-30k to prettify it, which would still leave you 70K in the kitty.  You wouldn't need to work for some time for sure.

Question, can't you just work on the internet?  Why do you need face to face contact with your clients?  We do have broad band here!! (Well, not quite, but it is still very good).  ADSL they call it.

As I said, I didn't know your income when I first replied to you and thought you were perhaps coming out here to "scrape by" like so many others.  250K and 2K per month would cover that with plenty to spare.  Without our mortgage my family of 4 could survive very comfortably on 2k.  For example, in our local bars, it is normal to have a meal, with beer / wine etc. and when it all comes out, to pay between 10€ - 15€ per head.  And I am talking leaving full up and well watered.

Final answer - yes you can afford to live in Spain easily especially if you move inland.

Last comment - Start learning Spanish NOW!  It's great fun.

Best regards

Max

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georgia I understand the Spanish thing about the long siesta in the middle of the day, But it is slowly starting to change. A few companies still insist on the 2 hour lunch (and that means working till 7pm on Friday night yuck ) but more and more companies are starting to offer shorter hours during school holidays (no lunch or at least one not charged Spanish always take a lunch) and slightly longer hours during the rest of the year, again lunch is extra but max an hour (often employees take longer lunches but don't always charge it). A lot of the Spanish, at least those that work in offices around Madrid prefer an hour lunch and to get home earlier. I have a friend who's wife (they have 2 young children) who turned down a good job because it required the 2 hour lunch and didn't offer summer hours. I've been told that the Spanish sleep the least amount of anyone in Europe, and I'd believe it, most go to bed midnight or 1am and then get up at 6, and it's simply because they get home so late. It will never go American but it is slowly changing.

Ivorb one thing you should take into account is exchange rates, Spain sounds great when the Euro is weak, but talk to anyone who's paid in pounds or dollars how it feels to be taking a pay cut every time the dollar/pound drops. If you serious about living here I'd suggest moving everything over to Euros to avoid exchange rate risks.

Also I was just in Germany where the tempature is a comfortable 25 degrees but humid, Madrid is currently 37 and dry, that by far is the best part, the dry heat. The only other thing is the sun is incredibly strong here. Coming from Nothern Europe it takes a while to get used to it.

georgia, let me rephrase that, I don't understand the Spanish thing about long lunches, guess I'm too American for that. Lunch is always 30 mins.

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Appreciate all the useful advice here.  Don't really want to live in Spain like we live here anyway.  Definitely time to downsize, but we do want to be comfortable as that is where we will probably retire if it works out.  Exchange rate is a problem, particularly with the SA Rand, however the income is annuity based and I cannot move it. However, it can go both ways. The idea of spending 2 months touring and checking out the place really appeals to me. Good idea Max. Thanks once again. Must get off to work now. Chat later

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Hi Ivorb, Do you have a British passport? 

I assume Durban has changed a little, was there on hols in the late 70's.

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