Spanish Mortgage Shortfall and UK Bankruptcy

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07 Jun 2014 15:54 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

My home in Spain has been repossessed, I have recently obtained a Nota Simple, which shows the bank now have 100% ownership.  From What I understand they have to take possession of it at 60% of auctionable value, which would leave a massive shortfall of about 200K.  Can I include this in a UK bankruptcy order?

Thoughts appreciated





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07 Jun 2014 16:46 by loramos Star rating. 16 posts Send private message

Ok an answer you may not like.Declaring bankrupcty in the UK does not absolve you of your problems in Spain.AND OF COURSE LIKEWISE.You were obviously in a position to spend a lot of money on a large purchase and a large deposit. you  employed and paid accountants,solicitors etc. this is not the place to seek legal advice.............Maria who has helped many,many people is the person you should be contacting.

What I have said will appear harsh but come on , you must have known what you were doing





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07 Jun 2014 16:56 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

I wish life was perfect, yes at the time we had money a good job, but that changed and we lost everything, I hope you never have to go through anything similar, so yes it does sound harsh, all I am after is some advice from people who have suffered similar things inorder to safe guard my families future.  I have been told by lawyers in the UK that under EU law insolvency proceedings are recognised throughout the EU, and so if that debt were included in a UK bankruptcy order they can not persue me any further in the UK, but in Spain they could, and the reality of it is, I wont be going back.....

 

Any CONSTRUCTIVE comments, please say....





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07 Jun 2014 17:35 by baz1946 Star rating. 2177 posts Send private message

If it's still on-going the UK had a thing called the Debt Relief Programme, cheaper then full bankruptcy, no court appearance, obligations end quicker, worth checking out if its still about and you qualify.

Also I did hear...Could be wrong....That before you could go bankrupt in the UK you had to live here prior for 3 years. You post makes it sound you haven't, also best to check on this as well.





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07 Jun 2014 17:38 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

HI, I have been back in UK since 2011, so is my centre of main interest, have looked at Debt relif order, but is for debts under 15K. Would bankruptcy solve my issue?





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07 Jun 2014 18:56 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1839 posts Send private message

A bankruptcy order in the UK will only resolve your liabilities in that country. That said banks in Spain have started pursuing debtors for their UK assets with a European charging order which is a relatively easy process. If you declare your debts in Spain to the UK bankrupycy court and request they be included then it should resolve that threat to your future in the UK but not in Spain. Debts in Spain remain for life until discharged.

You can then restart your life which is the actual purpose of a bankruptcy order.

 


This message was last edited by Mickyfinn on 07/06/2014.

_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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07 Jun 2014 19:11 by norm de plume Star rating in North Tenerife and L.... 162 posts Send private message

Wait and see what happens with the property before making any decision! You may not need to do anything.





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07 Jun 2014 19:24 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

Thank you all

 

mickyfinn. Do you have experience in these matters as I really need some experienced thoughts?





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07 Jun 2014 20:43 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9290 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Gonehome:

What was the value for auction contained on the mortgage?

How much did you borrow?

What is the pending mortgage? 

Sometimes the equation is not made with the correct values and therefore I would like to know if you are obntaining them correctly.

Kindest,

Maria



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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07 Jun 2014 20:59 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

Hi maria

 

the outstanding mortgage is 455k and an auctionable value of 472 k





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07 Jun 2014 21:29 by GuyT Star rating. 487 posts Send private message

A couple of people here giving advice that a bankruptcy order in UK will not absolve them of debt in Spain because "Debts in Spain remain for life until discharged." and "Declaring bankrupcty in the UK does not absolve you of your problems in Spain".

What makes you say such things?

Surely it's a no brainer that a UK bankruptcy order will extinguish debts in other EU countries. Not much point in all those bust Irish and German businessmen going to UK a few years ago to take advantage of simple bankruptcy procedures  if it didn't help them back home.

 

 





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08 Jun 2014 07:43 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1839 posts Send private message

The key principal is ‘jurisdiction’. Spanish bankruptcy laws are different to those in the UK. I doubt the poster would be declared insolvent in Spain given the detail he has posted.

It is possible to recover debt incurred in Spain from UK assets without bankruptcy proceedings. However it will depend on the levels of outstanding debt and assets he has in both countries. It also depends if the creditor believes it would be worthwhile or cost effective.

Bankruptcy is a very last resort process and not a free ride. There are consequences and creditors and the courts are often reluctant to take that route.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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08 Jun 2014 13:39 by mariadecastro Star rating in Algeciras (Cadiz). 9290 posts Send private message

Legal Questions? Speak to Maria Direct

Gonehome:

Where did you get the auctionable value from?



_______________________

Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA

Lawyer

Director www.costaluzlawyers.es

El blog de Maria



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08 Jun 2014 17:42 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

From the mortgage contract





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08 Jun 2014 17:54 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

something not right here!!

 

other post says the house was bought at 750K with a 350K deposit = 400K mortgage

how come the mortgage after 11 years is now 455K

 

Auction valuations etc also diifer on each post!!!



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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08 Jun 2014 17:58 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

Sorry my mathematics isn't great. Principle is what I am after. 





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08 Jun 2014 18:42 by Tadd1966 Star rating in Los Montesinos. 1755 posts Send private message

Ok

Principle is simple - sadly if you owe the bank then they will probably chase you for the debt, if you do not have the means to pay then they may give up but.....................

Probably best you go see a solicitor pretty quick and good luck



_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”



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08 Jun 2014 18:53 by Mickyfinn Star rating in Spain and France. 1839 posts Send private message

The principal is your mortgage contract in Spain requires you to discharge the original debt.

If you fail so to do then it follows the lender will by legal right pursue you for recovery of said shortfall by any legal means open to them.

Your accessible assets if there are any in UK or elsewhere will be at risk. That I’m afraid is the bottom line.

If you declare bankruptcy in the UK and it’s granted by the court the debt will still remain in Spain unless the court takes that into account. You need legal counsel, put all your cards on the table through a lawyer, accept the consequences and move on with your life. 

Like taxes and death there is no escape route.



_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn Time is the fire in which we burn. Delmore Schwartz.



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08 Jun 2014 19:02 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

Thank you all for your thoughts. 





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01 Nov 2014 05:26 by gonehome Star rating. 19 posts Send private message

Just to update. Have been declared bankrupt for a month now. Bank in spain have been dealt with. Best thing I ever did. Thanks all





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