Spanish people moving abroad for work

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26 Nov 2012 7:34 PM by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

In another thread, some of us have gone off on the tangent of Spanish people having to move abroad for work, so I thought I'd put it in a separate thread.  I know a few people who have done this and repeat here what I said in the other thread:

The husband of a friend of mine has gone to work in France for a while this autumn and this income will support the family. Luckily his brother lives in France and was able to fnd him some work. I imagine it's not anything like that easy for most people to just walk into a job abroad although in our village in Andalucia there do seem to be quite a few people with French connections. For my friend's husband, it beats the short-term contracts he's been getting in construction in Spain over the last few years - on occasion, he's worked for three months, being continually promised his wages until he's given up after three months, having not been paid a penny and having spent a fortune on travel etc. I think he'll be better off in France for the time being. Some people I know, who are now in their fifties, used to work abroad in Germany or France - some (younger ones) still go up to France in September for the 'vendimia.' They get some welcome cash to supplement what is often an agriculturally-based income. Quite a few used to go to Catalonia too (almost abroad!). I think those times have come again. Quite a few people now see the future of their children abroad - they mostly mention the UK and the USA. Another friend's daughter is going to come and stay with us next year in the UK to improve her English and we've invited others. We are in a good position to help with that sort of thing and repay some of the kindness we've been shown by their families over the years. I think that we British can think of ways of helping that will be welcome to our Spanish friends and won't necessarily cost us anything to do.

Do others know of Spaniards moving abroad for work?  What effect will this have on village and town life?  Will smaller schools, shops, bars etc. close with this depopulation?  What are people's thoughts?



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27 Nov 2012 11:53 AM by moncapitan Star rating in South by South West. 117 posts Send private message

 I know of many Spanish who have moved abroad permanently.  There are jobs with a demand for Spanish speaking people in many countries and these people are now settling well in good jobs.

I do not know how it is affecting things back in Spain though.



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27 Nov 2012 12:09 PM by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

Well, I've noticed that our local bar is much quieter than it used to be.  Some of the older or less healthy locals have died (sometimes not surprisingly from alcohol and smoking-related illnesses) and there isn't the younger generation to fill that gap and many of the expats who bought holiday homes just don't seem to be spending any time in Spain, but are back in the UK.  One British couple had intended to spend six months of the year in Spain, but had to shelve that idea when their UK business wasn't doing well and they had to be more hands-on.  So, the older generation are dying off, many younger Spaniards are moving away, sometimes just to a nearby town and expats are spending less time there.  I think some of these villages could shrivel up into practically nothing.  That's the worst case scenario.  Hopefully it won't come to that.



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29 Nov 2012 6:04 PM by wodger Star rating. 28 posts Send private message

 There are a few Spanish youngsters working in catering in Tallinn, & loads working in Wroclaw & Krakow, I assume that they feel comfortable in cities where the tourist language is English. The kids will always go where the work is, & good luck to them. In border towns in Eastern Germany a lot of the schools are teaching Polish as there is work over the boarder in Western Poland, but there is little work Eastern Germany. South Western Poland around Klodzka & the Sudetenland have had this problem for at least 20 years, there are whole towns where most of the young people work abroad, there is plenty of work for them in Austria working in Old Persons Homes. & catering, lots work in factories in Holland & Germany, and as you know there are loads of Polish workers in the UK & Ireland. So I believe that the Spanish kids will be have to work abroad if they want to make a life for themselves.


This message was last edited by wodger on 29/11/2012.



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30 Nov 2012 12:04 PM by eos_ian Star rating in Valencia. 498 posts Send private message

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We all know that Spanish unemployment is the highest in Europe - and it's still rising. The number of people looking for work in September had it's largest increase in that month for 15 years.Among the young half of all 16 to 24 year olds are without jobs. It's a devastating statistic for a country that desperately needs a dynamic, thriving and young workforce to help it recover from the housing crisis that plunged the economy into recession. Gayle Allard , who has been living in Spain for 27 years, an economics professor from the Instituto de Empresa in Madrid said in an interview with the BBC

"It's a problem not just for them, but for all of us, this is the generation that will be paying for the welfare state and pensions in the future. If they can't get started with relatively secure, well-paying jobs, start to put away some savings, start to accumulate assets, start paying into the welfare system, where does that leave the rest of us? It's going to be backwards. We're going to be paying for these kids for years and years. It really puts at risk the whole [economic] model."

And she is so right. People are desperately looking to move abroad, language schools are bursting at the brim and a massive "brain drain" is occuring, where all young highly qualified professionals are leaving the country at the first opportunity they have.



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30 Nov 2012 4:21 PM by moncapitan Star rating in South by South West. 117 posts Send private message

Gayle Allard is correct, things can only get worse in Spain when you have the terrible mis-management of the last 4 years.

Spain has spent the following amount more than she has taken in:

2008  - 12%
2009  - 31%
2010  - 25%
2011  - 26%

 

 

Any young person with a head on their shoulders would be wise to get out of Dodge while they still can, because the Spanish government is going to have to piok a pocket or 2 to repay this debt.

The spending is much worse in the UK btw.

 



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30 Nov 2012 6:55 PM by moley87 Star rating. 2 posts Send private message

I am currently looking for a job. Things are pretty tough here to be honest.





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30 Nov 2012 9:04 PM by moncapitan Star rating in South by South West. 117 posts Send private message

 don't worry Moley87, you can claim unemployment instead of looking for work



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01 Dec 2012 12:36 PM by graeme13 Star rating. 33 posts Send private message

 

 

In time we will see the influence of them working in other countries but if i was in their shoes....i would be doing the same...

 

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01 Dec 2012 2:43 PM by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

Does anyone have any personal knowledge about this though?  That was what I was getting at really when I started this thread.  It would be interesting to have some more real examples of people Forum members know who have left, where they have gone, what they are doing, what parents are saying about their children's options when they leave school, what the children, especially teenagers are saying about it, how it is affecting your local area and so on.  Or, is it the case that many Forum members do not know enough Spanish people to have many examples to give?



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01 Dec 2012 7:01 PM by besj Star rating in Sweden. 5 posts Send private message

Living in Sweden with a second home in Catalonia I have just been to London with my daughters to do some Xmas shopping. One thing we all noticed was that there were so many more Spanish speaking people in the shops and the restaurants...

 



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01 Dec 2012 7:10 PM by moncapitan Star rating in South by South West. 117 posts Send private message

 I work directly with a large number of Spanish.

Many more new arrivals have been joining our company in the last year as recommended by their friends.

Most are now settling for good, buying homes and starting families.



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01 Dec 2012 10:11 PM by laup Star rating. 7 posts Send private message

I help Spanish adults who are learning English; some are unemployed and using the time to extend their potential for employment abroad. I know of two who have recently left for Norway, apparently having reasonable English may be sufficient for them to make a start there, several others are now working in the UK . Others are also learning German, with the hope that their pot of gold may lay there. A number are young "architects" who gained degrees toward the end of the building boom and have little chance of ever working within this field - they tell me that their degrees are not internationally recognised so are virtually worthless outside Spain: even the qualified indicate that they would go abroad for the most menial of work as they just see no future for themselves here in Spain for years to come. All very sad, as the ones I encounter still have the motivation to extend their learning in order to persue a viable future, I wonder how many lack that motivation, and what will become of them?





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02 Dec 2012 9:23 AM by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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My neighbour is doing an Access course in order to go abroad for work. She's about 40, and is doing a certificate course to boost her maths, Spanish and French. She's Spanish, so her doing Spanish is the equivalent of English-speakers doing the English GCSE to improve grammar and vocabulary if they didn't do well at school. Isabel is quite upset at the prospect of having to go abroad and a bit scared, but she feels she has no prospects at all in Spain even though our village has good access to Málaga and Antequera where one might expect work to be available. I think she feels she is at a disadvantage because of not doing well back in her school days. She has only worked sporadically for the last ten years, and because her partner has lost one of his jobs they are really struggling. I'm not sure if he would move abroad with her. She's doing French rather than English because she did French at school so feels it would be easier to learn as an adult, but she knows she has less options of where to get work if she has French as her only other language. She doesn't know whether to go and seek work in France or to head south to one of the African countries that speak French. She gets upset thinking about where she might find work because she doesn't want to leave the village. Her intention is to go for a year or two and then come back "when the crisis is over" .....

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02 Dec 2012 9:25 AM by dbd Star rating. 63 posts Send private message

Spanish moving abroad to find work...............big deal..............the irish have had to do it for decades



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02 Dec 2012 9:36 AM by tamaraessex Star rating in Colmenar, Malaga. 508 posts Send private message

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I flew to the UK on Friday, and on the airport bus to Bristol l was chatting with a young Spanish lad who has lived in Exeter for about 8 years. He says there is a large Spanish community there and a couple of good Spanish restaurants. He has seen an influx in the past year, that people from the Jerez and Cadiz provinces are heading for Exeter - presumably reporting back to their homes that there is work, and also helping their own friends with accommodation and perhaps jobs etc in Exeter, so it encourages more people who already know each other and can help each other.

He said he couldn't get the kind of work he had hoped for, but he was earning more than he would in Spain. Obviously his expenses were much higher, and he said that he felt he was too old to be living like a student in a shared house (he was probably 30). He was disappointed not to have a career he could develop - he was doing casual work varying from bar work to admin work through a temp agency, and trying to do some web-design work as well. It isn't the life he had hoped for, but he said there is at least lots of work for inward migrants in the UK for people willing to work hard so he wasn't at all worried about not having work to pay his rent. But he came from a stunning coastal village in Cadiz province and hugely misses the beach, the sea, his family and his country. He said that the one consolation is that British people seem to enjoy Spanish football so it is sometimes possible for him to find a bar showing the Real Betis match. He wants to go home as soon as there is work in Spain, because in Spain he will earn much less but he will be able to have a house and live near his beach. He had just visited his family for a week and it seemed to have made him rather sad.

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02 Dec 2012 10:58 AM by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

Yes, Tamara, the difference between many Spaniards going abroad to work and other emigrants is that usually the Spanish don't want to leave Spain and love their country.  That's different to most of the English and Irish abroad that I've met who often profess they never want to see their native country again.

Dbd, wouldn't you say it's the case that many Irish leave Ireland because they want to get away from the laws on divorce, abortion etc. - i.e. the way the Catholic Church has such an influence in society and especially to the detriment of women?  The Catholic Church in Spain no longer seems to have that kind of influence.



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02 Dec 2012 11:05 AM by maddiemack Star rating in Grantham, Lincolnshi.... 194 posts Send private message

We have some Spanish families living here in Grantham and we love listening to them talk to each other, in Spanish of course.  With a view to tightening up my own Spanish, I have decided to place an advert in our local newpaper in the hope of finding a Spaniard with good English who can help me for a reasonable hourly rate.  Hopefully, my small contribution will help someone who needs a little extra cash, at the same time as helping me with my Spanish. 

Just a thought, as I realise most of us are finding it harder to make ends meet at the moment.......but are there any on this site with a property in Spain that employ a local Spaniard in any capacity to help run the household?  We are thinking we could do this, when we find a place to spend our winters, by way of givng something back to the locals that are always so kind to us wherever in Spain we stay.  How much would a cleaner expect per hour, for example? Or someone to keep an eye on a place whilst we aren't there?



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02 Dec 2012 12:26 PM by eggcup Star rating. 567 posts Send private message

Hi Maddie, I've often done 'intercambios,' whereby I meet a Spaniard for maybe an hour and a half and we do three quarters of an hour English and three quarters of an hour Spanish - no money changes hands and it doesn't matter if you have different levels of the language.  I've done it recently where I taught the Spanish and my friend taught me Welsh - she is a Welsh teacher, so she taught me really well, whereas she just wanted to practise Spanish conversation, so I'd let her chat away practising her tenses, write down any mistakes and let her know at the end, to not interrupt her flow and also help her with pronunciation.  I have also in the past employed a Spanish private tutor for £20 an hour, but honestly I much prefer the informality of the intercambio.  Also, that way you can talk about whatever you want and not what the teacher wants to teach you.

Regarding employing locals in Spain to look after our house, we have done that for years and pay 8 euros an hour for cleaning.  You just need to ask around and find someone trustworthy.  We've never had a problem with this, taking recommendations of our very good friend and neighbour and in fact, employing her sister and later on her daughter-in-law.  It would be best if you could get a friendly neighbour, Spanish or British/Irish/other to 'keep an eye on it' for free, really - Spanish neighbours don't usually charge for that kind of thing.  Our neighbour waters the garden every week for example and doesn't expect payment; instead, we do her favours like take her to hospital apppointments when we're over or get some shopping in for her and refuse payment.



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02 Dec 2012 2:02 PM by mac75 Star rating in Valencia. 412 posts Send private message

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Does anyone have any personal knowledge about this though?  

Yes, I know dozens and dozens of Spanish familes who are encouraging their children to leave Spain. Investing in language courses and pulling on contacts left right and centre. However it only tends to be the qualified that really make it abroad. I have also known many to go abroad and come back 3 months later not having found anything more than positions for kitchen helps in restaurants. A friend of ours has a son working in Mexico, another has a daughter in Germany, another has a son in Canada, a friend of mine is working in Cambridge and the list just goes on and on. Sure the Spanish would rather stay in Spain, the Spanish love Spain but the young have totally become used to the idea that they will have to move a broad when they finish their studies. I have friends who are English teachers and their classes are full to the brim with 17 and 18 year olds who all say that they will be looking for work abroad and that is "the norm" now for educated youth. They have accepted it and so have their families. How does it affect the area? Well I suppose it will only affect those who stay behind and see their friends and family move away. I couldn't say that it is very noticable though. I even have a friend who works for the Home office and is perfecting his english to be sent to the Embassy/Consulate in Ethiopia. Only by moving to these places does he have a hope of moving up the ladder. Literally it was Yemen or Ethiopia. take your pick, they said. A neighbour of mine has recently been posted to Costa Rica and another to Dehli, it was "go" or loose your job. Obviously they have gone. However not with all the "extras" that would have received in the past. Another friend of mine went and tried his luck in Australia, ended up in a restaurant washing dishes and is an expert jeweller. The general feeling is "whatever it takes" at least amongst the families and friends I have, and within my circle of friends I only know a handful of Brits/Americans over here, they are all Spanish.

 


This message was last edited by mac75 on 02/12/2012.

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