El Pinet

I did wonder if the banks would pull the plug, so to speak. In view of the Irish situation, as that was down to a building crisis with banks funding it.

Still with us being the "Golden Goose" and being in a captive situation. Like you say this could rumble through the panto season.

The power and water are off again. More money demanded. Is it the same demand as before?  How many people are there and what the heck are they using?

Must be people using their air con and topping the pools up.

I heard on the jungle telegraph that they had a meeting about something. But like the other information about SJ and the AGM, we won't hear anything till there's more money needed.

Thank you to friends  who send me snippets. I have read those snippets and pose the following questions. Spanish law weird at best...however..no coh...no habitation..cant live there ...therefore no bills?  What are embargoes on property? Finally as a reminder to residents to pay their community fees....lets make them community fees not water and electricity fees.

if any legal proceedings do start then lets form a group to defend our rights. Our right in Spanish law, not that of residents

Hope this forwarded from friends enlightens

8th  of January how convenient !!!! Just as anyone taking time off for Christmas/New Year  has to be back at work .Strategic or what !!!!!!! Sack them all and start again , should never have been set up in the first place is totally illegal and just serves to let SJ away with their legal obligation. If I was not seeing this for myself I would not believe it !!!!!

With the snow in the UK I don't think I could get out there till the spring. Still its nice and warm in my UK flat and I've got a 230 volt supply and running water.

As I said in a previous posting its like Animal Farm.

Agreed J A . I might be able to get out there may or june.

GRUMPY OLD MEN OR WHAT

Reading these post's it seems that you lot have nothing else to moan about other than blame the people living at El Pinet. 

Can you lot imagine what it would be like if the site was empty, most of your property would end up in a Spanish boot sale. With people living there they are looking after your property. Do you think that if they saw a villain breaking into a property they would walk past. I THINK NOT.

These people are fighting to keep the site open, it of course benefits them but it also benefits you. We have all invested hard earned money only to be turned over by the builder. Take your anger out on him not the people that are giving up their time to help us all.

As for the money being collected for the electric, I agree that the people living there should pay for what they use and I wonder why installing our own meters never happened.However people are using power when on holidays as well, how many of them are non payers!! nothing in this world is free.

As for the date for the next AGM when should it be whats good for me maybe not good for you. What if the commitee waited untill the summer, thats six months away, do you want to wait six months to move forward again I THINK NOT.

Lets start seeing posts complaning about the builder not the people fighting for us all, he's the one who has put us in this position.

to win we must all stick together.

Well put Gringo.   I'm grateful to all the work the Committee have put in over the years to keep El Pinet up and running and am sorry for the residents who have had to live on a building site for so long and to suffer through cut electricity and water supplies.    

Whether it's legal or not, if we hadn't been paying for utilities over the last few years I imagine El Pinet would be uninhabited - derelict and vandalised.   Of course we'll never know definitely what would have happened but I, for one, wasn't prepared to take that chance.  (I am a law-abiding citizen, but find it difficult to understand exactly what is legal or not in Spain......).    Who pays what for water and electricity can never be worked out fairly until we have our own meters and I guess some owners have abused the system by filling private pools, etc. etc.   One has to just accept that there will be winners and losers.  

As for the timing of the AGM, the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.   At least it shows something is being done.   OK, not the most convenient time and I won't get to it myself but the date will never suit everyone and I shall look forward to hearing the outcome of discussions at this meeting via the Minutes.

My main grouse through all this has been lack of communication, more recently from the Community Administrators, Mediterraneo.   They replied to my email several months ago confirming that they have my correct details - name, property, email address, etc. but I was not aware that "Expenses" and "List of Debtors"  had been made available until I was at El Pinet in October and a resident neighbour happened to mention it.   I was then able to pick up a copy of this from a Committee member.  I would have expected this to be sent to all owners.

It was good to see the Minutes of the Meeting held last week posted so quickly on the website and to know that things are being done and action taken.   My thanks to those concerned, if they read this, and I would ask please if  messages could be posted on the website on a regular basis , even bad news or stalemate situations - just so that non-residents are kept updated and enabled to feel a part of the community.    I would also like to thank Alec Aspden for his excellent letter sent to the Diputada for European Residents.  Let's hope we see an end to this frustrating and difficult situation before too long. 

Thank goodness for the voice of reason!  This is exactly what we have been saying and  trying to get across to the dissenters on this forum, but they just don't want to listen.  We MUST all stick together on this otherwise we WILL all lose everything.  The Committee are doing a good job and deserve our support and advice not constant criticism.  More information and updates on the website would be appreciated as it has been a source of frustration for those of us not living on site. If everyone had paid their dues, we would be in a much stronger position.

The whole point of free speech and democracy is to be able to criticise when someone or group is not doing what is best and equitable. That is why there has been much criticism on here. Those living there are not paying their fair share whilst those there for one or two weeks etc are paying too much. Very easy to work that one out 

 Hi All,

A reply to the  e.mail sent on behalf of the Committee to the British Consulate in Alicante is now posted on the El Pinet website.

Completely agree with the recent comments supporting the Committee.

I am looking forward to the day when the only thing the dissenters can whinge about is the date of the AGM!!

Is this true?.. I have been told........Apparently the owner of the old show house is a spanish solicitor. If this is true and he is not paying the fake community charge then we know the ' committee'  are just trying to frighten/ bully  me and others into paying that which does not need to be paid by all.. Think beyond the present issues and what the ++++++++  could  land you with. These are people who elected themselves from an illegal set up. Almost Italian.

also..are 'charges'   / 'fees' being extract from those properties described as not owned?  They are owned...may be not sold ,,,but they are owned even if it is  by SJ? I their is a difference.....thats discrimination...ILLEGAL...........BO....TAKE CARE. I WILL.

The time is quickly upon us when the minority attempt to take on the majority..............................

Lets hope the majority.................holiday home owners / non residents..............are not taken in by the threats of legal action for non payment of utility bills (otherwise known as community fees)

Don't forget legal action costs money.....serious money.........the one commodity the 'so called' community doesn't have.

Personally I will be ignoring all requests as I am advised they are empty threats that cannot be backed up with actions.

Its also extremely sad that with over 50% of owners not paying (as stated in August 2010) the remainder believe it's the right thing to do to proceed with legal action. How can any commitee proceed with no majority?

In fact of the 50% who are paying I would estimate at least half are only doing so because they feel threatened and are just hoping it will do some good to contribute. (who knows)

I don't know what is right or wrong, everybody has there own opinions and are affected differently, but what I do know is that the 'so called' community are not trying to bring together all parties and understand or mediate between the different perspectives of the owners, they are simply trying to rail road all owners down one particular path. A path which seems to suit the minority who are residents.

I appreciate the residents are looking after the site and have our best interests at heart, but it still doesn't justify the fees requested.

Time spent talking to all owners individually would be time better spent than taking the broad brush approach of suing everyone, I think you would be suprised how many owners want to contribute and help the situation for all.

"Time spent talking to all owners individually would be time better spent than taking the broad brush approach of suing everyone."

Never a truer word spoken Divineintervention - that approach would definitely, definitely have worked for me (as it did the previous year when I was happy to contribute).

Like you I will be ignoring all requests for money.

Like you I have made no irrelevant postings for some time, preferring action to words.

Like you I have been advised that I stand correct in the eyes of Spanish law.

I would urge anyone who is thinking of going down the legal route to think long and hard about where this will lead.  There can only be one outcome.

"There can be no reward for aggression. Nor will there be any negotiation. Principle cannot be compromised  --> the choice is yours to make" - George Bush senior to Saddam Hussein, 5 Jan 1991.

Despite my many rants, I was also in the group mentioned by Roly. But then the DEMANDS on my cash grew ever larger and I was seeing no progress whatsoever. It became clear that we were not just paying for our usage but (in my opinion) for SJ debts. I agree with so much that D I  has been said. I have looked on various web sites to try and gain some understanding of the horizontal law. I think it's mainly for flats as they have many common areas and a common structure. It can include houses where there is a common  asset ownership. Those items of common ownership are in you deeds and in a Master deed. Any community formed anywhere then has the common areas set out in a legal document.

The committee has no other concern than those areas. i.e. We dont need security guards because one bag is stolen (sad as it is ). Pools don't need lifeguards (They would need an office, changing room, toilets etc.) Trees in private gardens do not need anyone other than the owner or their gardener to look after them, they certainly do not need spraying (without the owners consent) once a month for 4 years. est cost over that period €20 000.

Yes, It is time for the committee (the legality of which I still doubt) to listen. More and more people are withdrawing their goodwill, their support and stopping any payment because it is an unfair system and we are receiving promises that are continually being broken. The majority, as it has been said are not wrong. Democracy not  DICTATORSHIP is what we want.

Threatening Legal actions so so wrong.

I suspect that spending the so called community money on personal utilities would be an offence. It would be here.

It is good that residents 'keep an eye' on the place. I do the same here in the u.k.for my friends and neighbours.

I saw the list of payers / non payers and wonder if the unsold properties (empty but owned by SJ) which had no contributions next to them will be receiving the same threats?

Sorry forgot to add.

Read the two documents on the web site.

I

Are others coming to the same conclusion as I?

1. Nice letter, worth the effort, but you are on your own! I will give you some contacts but....etc

2. Here we have the admission that community funds were / are being used to support SJ.  That was kept quiet.  That support is outside the remit of horizontal law. That Iberdrola do not deserve our custom when it is sorted. I think we were all signed up for them, however it is so long ago, I might be wrong.

3. I hate anything being 'secret' and only available to a select few. It is happening, you and I have been sold down the river by those who are presenting themselves as our elected representatives, which they are not. All in their self interest, but who wouldn't in a similar situation.

4. I suppose I am lucky, I don't live there.  I wish I had never heard of the place but I also can sit it out. SJ want to sell the properties on EP as they have more money than you or I tied up in the estate.  Residents should be intercepting every potential buyer and giving them the grim news...remember SJ need the money. Perhaps then they might start to come down from their high horse if there was a fight.

This is for those who stand at the side and willingly stump up in fear.

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

I hope it makes you think