same thing happened to us, huma will ignore your solicitors, when you get the court date wich will be at least 6 months but more likley a year, huma wont turn up and the court wont expect them to,  the court will then give huma time to appeal, huma wont appeal they know they are in breach of contract,,  your solicitor will then go for a sentance, wich you will win, another 6 month wait.

you will then have to go for an embargo on a huma unmorgaged property on mazzaron cc, another 6 months,  you will need a nie number to sue huma, spanish consulate take min 3 month to give you the nie.

after another 2/3 years what will huma do.....................i dont know........but the spainish law system is a joke...all brits need to boycot the country...go on holiday or by homes in a country were conmen and theives are punished not allowed to prosper as huma have, at a great cost to us all.

huma have stolen our money,  mcc is a mess with no facilities, acc is abandoned, occ is a sham delaying tactic and the bast.rds are getting away with it.

I would just like to say that I have had a bungalow at MCC for 5 years and it is not a mess. Admittedly we do not have the golf course or facilities, but at least 80% of the owners are happy, and things are improving all the time.

With regard to the NIE number you only have to take the forms to the Police Station, who will process them, and you can collect the NIE 2 weeks later.

I agree that Huma are a bunch of crooks, but they are not representative of all Spanish people, and we have no intention of returning to the UK with corrupt politicians, over-run with immigrants all collecting benefits and a housing market worse than Spain

ragbetts not having a go at you or buyers at Mazzaron Golf and Country Club,  minus the golf course, the golf club house, the shops, the supermarket ect ect,  simply stating Huma dont deliver what buyers pay for they are liars and cheats,  not a sigle person buying on MCC, ACC or OCC got what they paid for. how many thousands of people have been conned and out of how many millions.

It is interesting to see that Rowlands has not given any input on the information regarding the recently appointed builders not getting credit to build OTCC.

I also find it interesting that he is giving his advice as a knowledgeable agent dealing with properties in Spain about excellent lawyers he knows getting Bg's quickly refunded for his clients including interest at between 5% - 6% on another forum.

A question Brian...

Where were these lawyers when you bought on ACC with no Bg and then advised to transfer to OTCC with no forthcoming Bg again?

Do you not feel embarrassed at all selling property in Spain when you did not even know the basics of purchasing yourself.

The reason i am posting is that i feel your postings are very misleading to possible buyers by making out you are a very knowledgeable agent regarding the Spanish property market.... which is just  not true.

You might have gained experience from the HUMA fiasco but that doesn't make you an expert.

Just turn the clock back to February 2008 and then reflect on what has happened to the world's economy since then and ‘ most importantly’ the world's banks’

Now I would have been a clever’ b…er’ if I had predicted that a large number of the biggest banks in the world were going to be saved by their governments in the next 12 months

If anyone thinks that this has not had an effect on the property market and those involved in every aspect of it, then quite frankly they are in cloud cuckoo land!!!

I can only take decisions on my own investments based on what is happening at the time and economic projections …if I had invested in bank or many other shares in early 2008, I would have lost almost the lot in most bank shares and circa 30% in any other shares

Many have lost their life savings in HBOS, RBS etc 

On all my post reference ACC and OTCC I have been frank, pragmatic and explained several times how I got caught on this one only and not the others I have bought

I have always been careful to explain my own actions and never recommend anyone to follow me

Unlike a lot of agents I am also a buyer, so I do put my own money on the line……and I am still here unlike some of the bigger guys…Parador! 

At least in Spain the banks are paying their guarantees whilst in UK some of the biggest can only pay them with tax payers money!!!

Anyway Ran you are entitled to your views but it does help for everyone to know the extent of your financial involvement in ACC / OTCC

Did you pay the full 40/50% deposit or just the reservation fee of 3005 € and if you had a BG, I assume that you have by now had your money back…lucky you!

Hi Brian

I got involved with ACC in 2005 and paid my 40% deposit I month before ACC was mothballed. I bought through Parador and paid the aftersales fee.

This lifestyle change was true to it's word my partner and i went through three years of hell which nearly put an end to our relationship.

I did have bank guarantees which were received by pure luck. Aldea were another nightmare to deal with.

We were lucky in the fact we did eventualy receive our money back but had to part with more money to Aldea, lose the €3000 deposit and had no interest paid on our money. This does not include the cost of hundreds af calls to Aldea.

You now promote yourself as being an agent who was bitten once.... but surely you mean twice as it was you who forged ahead promoting OTCC to everyone and claiming you had an insurance guarantee, that by this summer your property would be built. You were even promoting sales for Huma despite protests from people on here.

On one forum you are saying Almeria is still the best place to purchase...Do tell me how you come to that conclusion.

Dubai, Bulgaria, were THE hotspots but now look at them.

As an advisory.. what in your opinion should buyers caught up in OTCC do now. You as a knowledgeable salesman with good solicitors to rely on surely must have a contingency plan by now.

When the  opportunity to trtansfer from ACC to OCC came up I thought long and hard about transferring.  Having paid 65,000 euros out with no BG it did seam like an option (the only option was to sue HUMA through the courts).  I looked at the correspondance on this site and spoke to HUMA in the end I decided not to transfer across on the basis that 1) the site was to remote, 2) It was to far from an airport which had flights from the south west of Englkand to it and 3) I just didn't trust HUMA any more.

In hindsight I was proved right but I do feel that the people who transferred across made a reasonable decision and at trimes looked like they had made the right one.  I also felt that Brian's original comments that if you have no BG then it was a way out was fair and at that time appeared reasonable advice.

I think I would like to hear what has happened to the insurance guarantee that Brian was so pleased to have had details on.  Has anyone taken this to a solicitor (a decent one) to try and get it enforced? Or is it worhtless?

Also I think a lot of people who critisize Brian would be happier if he coui

ld actually turn round and say " Sorry allthough my advice was given in good faith it would appear that HUMA have once again done the dirty on us".

Two other points need to be made:

1) If you transferreds to OCC from ACC without a BG you probably arn't in a lot worse position (the amount of interest you can claim is probably less and when suing you are behind everyone else and you will be suing a different company that may have more assets but may not).

2) I don't feel the credit crunch can be blamed for the problems here.  HUMA sold most of its units to ACC people all they had to do was to complete the houses to get the balances paid (no different than before).  THey were actually in a better position because they allready had the customers and with the recession there would be far more builders without any work available to take on the contract - building prices are cheaper now than 2 years ago because no one has any work. Builders are easier to find because no one has any work - so plerase don't blame the problems at OCC on the credit crunch.

In answer to Nigela point about the insurance policy....... ..that is currently being investigated for a practical outcome

But I am also advised that because of extension time allowed  it takes my contract time to end of July

And even then , before taking legal action, I have to give Huma Indalo a reasonable time to sort out the development finance....as the courts are realistic and take into account ' reasonable reasons for the delay' before they will cancel the contract

And the delay caused by the credit crunch will be taken into account

So going  to court too soon may not be the right strategy as regards OTCC...advice I have received

But everyone must take their own legal advice

I have yet to hear of anyone who did not have an ACC BG ,who has won at court against Huma Med re ACC ,getting their money back ..yes some have apparently found properties to get an embargo on [ UK term a charge]

It would be nice for a lot of people to hear that someone has !

However I have always assumed that 'all the assets of Huma Med 'will be subject to a first charge by their banks...because in UK that would be the situation [ eg Wimpey Barrett ettc] 

So winning a court case is the firsr step but the banks will have first call!!!...hope that my views are wrong 

The good thing, if there is any good thing about all this for those without a BG, is that so far Huma Med has not been put in to administration by it;s banks or even the owners...and a quite well known laywer also expressed the views that he was also surprised

In UK we call it doing a Phoenix........prior to administration the owners and banks get all set up to buy the main assest back from a receiver as soon as he is appointed

The banks take a small loss and provide refinance for a new company [ owned by the original people] to buy the assets cheap and all the other creditors get stuffed...and in the future they all make a nice profit!!

What does surprise me is that I have been told from a well known source that there are still lots of BGs not called in...and the banks are surprised about this !!!

If anyone has a BG for ACC  then take legal advice about calling it in asap

Now what am I doing....listening to my legal advice and waiting to see what happens...

All

Let's not get sidetracked here.  Yes there is a credit crunch but do not think for one moment that that has impacted ACC.  The real reasons ACC failed lie in the political arena. 

If the Junta hadn't placed an embargo on ACC, then the build (which was approved by the ayuntamiento) would have continued, the permission would have been completed retrospectively (as was the norm or so I am led to believe) and we would have all been sitting pretty and thinking we were pretty cool living the dream in Spain.

if Huma had obtained planning permission before starting the build, the issue of BG's not being issued would not have arisen, court cases wouldn't have been necessary and we would all be enjoying the good life.

If the banks had issued BGs as required to by the law, then we would all have been covered and we the prospective purchasers would not be left footing the bill, facing agonisingly long court cases with little or no prospect of a pay out when we receive judgement in our favour.

So what can WE do about this?

We cannot influence the politics of the situation.

Huma seem to ride roughshod over every legal institution in Spain

EU law cannot or will not intervene on our behalf unless we can prove our human rights are being infringed.

The Minister for Europe, various Euro MEPs and the foreign office all say their hands are tied.

So unless someone can frame a complaint to the European Court of Human Rights along the lines that our rights are being infringed because we are being ignored and discriminated against in the way that we have been treated, the length of time it is taking to resolve through the courts in Spain etc etc, then I think the only avenue left for us is to pursue the banks we paid our 40% money to.

Imagine the scenario in the UK:

a law exists which states that

• All money a builder receives as a down payment for an off plan property must be ringfenced
• The money must be secured by a bank guarantee or insurance contract in case the builder defaults

Then the unthinkable happens

• due to irregularities in the planning application, the courts order the builder to stop building
• The bank continues to allow the builder to draw from the ringfenced account(s) knowing that there is an injunction on the builder
• It transpires that bank guarantees were NOT issued

I think you know the rest of the story. 

If this happened in the UK, the banks (think Barclays, Lloyds, HSBC, Nat West) would have been made to account for their failure to protect the ringfenced accounts.  It is not beyond the realms of possibility that they would also have been held responsible for not ensuring that the ringfenced accounts were protected by bank guarantees.

Is there any way that we can bring pressure to bear on the Spanish banks?  I read somewherethat a petition was sent to the goveror of the Bank of Spain but I think that line of enquiry fizzled out.

Ran, Nigel, Brian, can we jointly think of some constructive way to focus our joint concerns and try to turn this debacle around?

For the record, I have staked over €80K, have no BG and have started court proceedings but as yet have not got a court date.

I couldn't agree more with the first part of you post.  As to where you go from here I am not sure but if we were in the UK before you could take the banks on you would have to pursue the developer to prove that they couldn't refund you the money - ie take them to court.

I think the only way forward is to sue HUMA - place an Embargo over any assets.  If you can then prove they can't pay you you can then either take action against the Banks as you have said or against your original solicitor who gave you bad advise.  There is a thread on Eye of Spain saying all solicitors should have insurance - which would mean if you win your case you would get your money back.

First comment Nigela is that 'Huma Med Banks' will have a first charge on all the assets.

In UK this would be the situation and Spanish Banks are very commercial so you have to assume the same.......may be wrong. hope I am wrong !   

In general Banks do not lend to developers without full security

I would have thought that any charges both specific [ on specified properties]   and general on all the assest of a company will be registered as they are in UK

And lawyers can find this out. if they want to and they are paid to do so

ILMSH post is about Banks not keeping the the rules of the Bank of Spain........interesting!

See my next post

ILMSH….even this is too long to be a touch more personal and writing it in full takes a long time!!

So perhaps we can have a name to help everyone!

Only just read it and not fully digested your comments but in general I think you are on the right track

My position is that I have gone to OTCC, so my contract is with Huma Indalo although I have the right to transfer back to ACC

So from a legal position I am not involved in ACC

Having said that I would be very happy to get involved in a personal basis [not business] in any action group which may arise out of your post and contribute any expertise I may have from my overall business experience [see my profile on My Space and Facebook or web site]

It does of course affect me to a degree as if ACC is sorted then it must help OTCC

Your post is a long one so I will give it a bit more time tomorrow and respond in any way I can to be helpful

Brian and Nigel

Thanks for your comments.

My point is that all banks and financial institutions need to be able to prove that they have exercised due diligence nowadays (BASEL II and Sarbane-Oxley have forced them down this route).  Where they do not exercise due diligence, they end up paying compensation.  This is the case with the scandals over the overselling of endowment mortgages and the application of bank charges which the banks and other institutions are paying out for.  There are also anti money laundering laws which mean that banks have to make sure where money is coming from and where it is going to.

If Huma was a front for some terrorist organisation then the banks would have been duty bound to freeze the assets until they received rulings to release the money.  In reality, it could be argued that Huma have publicly defaulted (allegedly) against court orders which the banks should have been aware of and should have protected the 'ringfenced' accounts.  Arguably they should have done this in October 2005 as soon as bulding at ACC was stopped by a court injunction.

As for my nom de plume, Nigel knows who I am but I prefer to maintain my thin cloak of anonymity while I am taking court proceedings agains Huma so I suggest you shorten my name to ILOST!  I lost a darn sight more than my sense of humour I can tell you!

The last I heard about my deposit (2 stage payments) was notes from my solicitor saying they had been transferred to the bank account of the developer (HM). After that Huma could have re-deposited it with the bank 'guaranteeing' the development but also   done anything else such as pay their contractors / employess or sit on it. What I am saying is it is pointless taking action against a bank unless you are certain they were the legal recipient for ringfencing the money and you can prove they received it.

All

Good news it appears Huma are not as Skint as they are making out.

Excellent news!  I presume you did not have a BG and had you transferred to OCC or were you still with ACC.  Assuming you had no BG then this is the best news we have heard for a long time.

Nigela

We did not have a BG and were still with ACC.

Papersere filed with the court in Jan 2008, so its taken 19months in total.

Has anybody actioned any court procedures with Huma yet concerning OCC,although the first phase should have been completed in June + two months so  i presume our chances  would be greater after this time .!

 Not building anyones hopes up ,but, Carmen is still on site and they have confirmed her position is safe,and something will be sorted soon,whatever that means!!

Not started yet but have sent order for Bank Guarantee/Insurance etc.....should start litigation 18th August this year which is 15 months plus the two months.

So let's hope.........

Regards

Carmen has just telephone us, the building will start in September, the machinery etc will be going onto site during the shutdown period of August.... thank goodness for that!