Community Charge

Hi everyone

We finally got a notice of our community charge today - for the whole year. Anyone know why there is an additional charge of 86 odd euros, over and above the four quarterly charges?

We'd be very interested to know how many of you have had notification of the charges and how many of you have paid your charges??????

There's no explanation of breakdown - just a spreadsheet attached to an e-mail. Not good enough in our book; we want to know what it is we are paying for.

Irene & Alan

We received our email on 9/4/08. The charges are based on size of apartment (i.e. square metres), so your charges might vary.   The first charge we paid in April 08, which was 179,60 euros. This was for first quarter - 90 euros + 89,60 euros for one off legalization fee.
 We have also paid 90 euros  in June & 90 euros in September. This leaves one final payment this year of 90 euros in December. 

We do not understand why you have just received your community charges bill now. We thought everyone had received the bills at the same time.

Nick and Linda    
Mar y Sol

Hi Nick & Linda

We don't understand why we didn't get our bills either - I left my e-mail address on the sheet pinned to the mailboxes as requested early last year. Previous to that I had occasion to contact the administrators, which I did, by e-mail, but never got a response.

You have explained the 89.60 so thank you for that.

I have also been told that the payments should have been made IN ADVANCE and not in arrears, so on that basis the fourth quarter is in fact overdue.

According to Jim however, (our president) he said that there were issues with the set-up of the banking side that he was addressing and not to worry about the community charges at present. I haven't been able to get in touch with him since either, although I have sent a couple of e-mails.

I also understand that a few people made objections to their charges not being fair and comparable with other owners. Whether or not these issues have been sorted I don't know. I fully understand that they are based on sq.m and don't have an issue with that, however, I'd still like to know what we're getting for our money though because I think it's a bit on the high side as community charges go. A breakdown of expenditure would be informative, don't you think?

Additionally, the last time we were over - August - I noticed that the snagging on the roof still had not been dealt with. Isn't that our administrator's job to sort out? The builders were still using the garage space and I wonder why, if the building is finished?

We'll be in Spain from 9-13th October and we'll maybe see if we can get to see the administrator, but with so very little time, this might not happen!

Any other Mar Y Sol owners want to comment?

Thanks 
Irene & Alan

Hi Irene & Alan

We received a list of timing of payments of community fees as follows:-

Period March, April, May 2008         Payment to be received by  15th April 08

Period June, July, August 2008       Payment to be received by 15th June 08

Period Sept, Oct, Nov  2008             Payment to be received by 15th Sept 08

Period Dec 08, Jan, Feb 09             Payment to be received by 15th Dec 08

GWS emailed their bank details to us and after our first payment, we emailed them for confirmation of receipt of our payment and they emailed back to say they had received it OK. So we assume the bank details they gave us, must have been correct.  

Hope this helps.

Nick & Linda 

Hi Irene/Alan 

I have recieved the same info as Nick/Linda and have paid up until end of nov i think and wont pay again until recieve another email of due community fees...Will probs be over again myself sometime in the new year...

Although we are in a different block (1) we had received an email with our community fees way back in March. We paid our first quarter, which as Nick and Linda explained did include a one off fee for the set up, insurance etc. We thought that our bill was extremely high and did ask for an explaination from the administrators (160.50 per quarter) The explaination was that the percentages that determined the fee was decided by Palacios Mar so it was nothing to do with the administrator. Fair enough. We found out that everyone on the ground floor in our block had fees at least double or more than further up the block! We ASSUME it is because we have very large, but unfinished, basements. No one in the block has a habitable basement as yet but we are expected to pay for them now. I suppose it seems reasonable but the bill was so much higher than we expected and every euro counts in the present economic climate.

Events moved on during the summer and Walter, our president, decided to sack the administrators!!! We and a few others gave him our proxy vote as he was living there and could see that things were not being done. I believe that he found out that the building insurance had not been paid and a few other worrying things. Although Danish he is a fluent English and Spanish speaker so could explain this to all of us. We now have a new administrator based in Orihuela. Our community fees have gone down slightly to 154.30 euros per quarter! We have resigned ourselves to this figure as there doesn't seem we can do much about it. We did email our lawyer to see if he could look into it for us but ,of course, he hasn't replied.

On a different subject but still on money, has anyone paid their wealth/renta tax yet? I did hear that it could be as much as 400+euros. Has anybody got any idea if that is right? We have again emailed our lawyer to try to find out when this would be due.

Gloria and Mike

wealth/renta tax? have no idea what this and have not been told anythng about it.. yet again is thsi another bill thats guna need paying that i knew nothing about.

Fraid so, Daz, BUT I think that the wealth tax has been abolished from this year so we will only need to pay for last year. The renta is tax the Spanish charge as if your property is rented out, even if it isn't, if you understand what I mean!!!! I'm not sure I do sometimes as I find the whole system confusing and just means we have to spend even more money.

DON'T go to Spain for an easy life- it isn't. Does anyone know of a nice uncomplicated place in the sun, maybe a desert island?

Gloria and Mike

will we be produced with a bill first ? i hope it wont just be debited from our accounts? because there isnt enough in my account!! wish i had never got involved with it all- too late now though.

Daz,

You have to submit the forms yourself (or get you lawyer to do it) I have no idea what penalties there are, if any, for not doing so. I hoped someone on here would know more than me!

Gloria

Are you referring to the SUMA's? If so, I was told that they could impose penalties up to 20% for late payment. We paid ours on Friday last week. The SUMA office, for the uninitiated, is in the market building in Rojales. We walked around for ages before we realised.

Tony & Kati informed us that ours had been delivered to the apartment, so I expect yours are waiting for you there.

You need to produce your passport. I believe that you must do this personally or have a lawyer who has power of attorney do it for you, for the first time. I believe after the first year, then they can be set up as a direct debit. 

If you want to read more, there's a whole long thread on the general forums.

Adios
Irene

How are we supposed to know about all these other charges when we are not informed about them ?? who is it i need to contact then about it and what is it im asking? i wont be charged for any late payments on somethin i know nothing about.

Does anyone in Spain have access to your mailbox and they can check and see if your SUMAs been delivered? I'll have a look at my receipts when I get home tonight and see what contact details are given.

Irene

thats the thing dont even have a mail box! yeah have a look please and let me know then i will get onto it. thanks

We paid our Suma bills when we were over in October as they were supposed to be paid by 3rd October. Ours was not left in our mail box as they needed a signature so they were sent back to the Suma office. We had them printed off in the Rojales office and then paid them in the Cam bank. Our fiscal representative will set up direct debits for the future but I'm sure that is easy to do yourself once you have paid the first bill.

I was actually asking if anyone had had notification of their wealth/renta taxes which is something different. You or your representative has to work this out and pay by the end of the year, I think. If your property in Spain is your main home then I believe that there is very little to pay but for those of us who have it a a second/holiday home the bill is usually more. I was interested to try and find out how much this amount is likely to be as I had heard wildly different amounts. I have been told that it is the value of your property from your deeds x 0.2% but on the main site someone said that it was the V.Catastral (taken from the Suma bill) x 0.2% which makes a very different amount!!!!

All very confusing but hopefully our fiscal representative will sort it.

Gloria and Mike

Hello it's Jim from block 3 problems logging on to site! so using Liz's. I have been reading some of the Forums regarding community charges etc. I was over in Spain last week and went to the Administrator and made enquiries about the charges. He explained how the charges worked and was based on sizes, quantity of rooms, where the apartments are situated, all this information was given to the administrator from the builder. He then bases what percentages each owner are responsible for. Some apartment blocks have 31 apartments ie..1 and 2. Block 3 and block 4 have 24 apartments and block  5 have 23. So the more apartments in the block the less community charge for individual owners as he was trying to say Mar Y Sol was all one big community and each block had a percentage to pay. Me personally thinks there has been a mistake, an example a ground floor 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom at the front with just a small balcony going across the livingroom in block 4 is 194 euros per quarter. The same apartment on the first floor was 103.50, also the same apartment on block 1(ground floor) was 150euros and the apartment directly above it is 79euro 50. Block 3. 2 bedroom 2 bathroom apartment groud floor is 183 euros a quarter, the one directly above is 96 euros so obviously there has been a mistake as l have been in both these apartments THAT FACE THE FRONT and the ones above are slightly bigger as they have a small balcony going across the main bedroom. l know that some of the ground floor apartments at the back of the property are bigger (some have under builds) also a big patio area but the ones at the front seem to be paying the same as them. Block 5 seems to be the only block that has been assessed properly because everyone seems to be paying an average 135 euros. l know that some of the owners have been to the builder just this week regarding this and they don't seem to be getting anywhere as they are blaming each another ie.. the administrator and the builder. ( Me personally l thought community charge was for maintainance of the block, cleaning, maintainance of the lift, pool, lighting etc...and the most fairest way would have been that everyone in Mar Y Sol should be paying the same for these services regardless of the size of the property.)

                                                                                         Jim Phillips President Block 3 Mar Y Sol

Hi Jim,

Long time-no-see!  It is interesting to see how many people are surprised by the plethora of taxes levied on you, once you have purchased a property in Spain.  When we were enticed into the honey trap of wall-to-wall sunshine and jobsworthy free environments, we were told that we would pay a nominal maintenance charge (community fee) and that was it.  We were amazed at how the Spanish system could provide all the wonderful facilities at no cost.  Now we know, there are at least FOUR taxes to pay on top of a substantial Communty charge.  As we are only occasional occupants who don't let, for the time we use the place, it works out more expensive than UK Council Tax!

Still, having been sold a pup from the tax point of view, we are not displeased with the place, although after a year we are still spending great chunks of cash on it. We also see the inequity of the Community charge.  Our block appears to be between 160e and 60e with an average around 72e.  In block 1 all the ground floor apartments have basements, however most are simply rough concrete and bare block from the original construction and require thousands of euro's spent to make them into anything that can be used.  Most of the apartments are very roughly the same size (there are a few anomolies with some 3 bed and some smaller attico's), but to say that we should pay double the average because we have a totally unoccupied and unnocupiable basement seems more than unjust.

Our President chucked out the original incompetent Administrators and installed new ones.  They have immediately made their presence felt.  For instance, in spite of making a song and dance about the cost of insuring the building and taking up-front-charges, we learned just before going out in September that the building had in fact never been insured and that therefore all owners were at risk, not only for building damage, but personally liable for public liability (someone hurting themselves).  This is now all sorted thank goodness.  However, even the new Administrators are saying that the proportions for Community Charge were set by the builder and cannot be changed.  I don't suppose there is much enthusiasm from other residents to see this inequity corrected as they are mostly Spanish and except for those on the ground floor would end up paying more.

Then there is the pool, which is still shared between the bungalows and blocks 1&2.  I am not going to go into it here, but apparently during the summer it was turned into a cesspit with broken glass and soiling so often that the pool had to be refilled several times and we, who never use the damn thing are expected to pick up the bill for water and labour!  It's a stupid little pool and definitely sub-standard to Brisas del Mar and what we were led to expect.  I and some other owners feel that it should be filled in and turned into a little quiet garden, but I suppose this will upset those who cause the problem.

Mike & Gloria

We have paid our wealth Tax for 2007. for a 2 bedroom 2 bath in Mar y sol in Joint names it cost 175euros each. plus our Spanish Solicitor charged 70euros each for setting this up!!
Hopefully this will be the first and only charge for this as it's been ABOLISHED..! unless they find some other charge

                                                  Regards Jim

Thanks for that, Jim. At least we have rough figure to allow for in our bank account.

Gloria and Mike

Hi Jim & everyone else!

I got your pm Jim but haven't had a chance to call. Won't be around over the weekend either.

My questions re the Community Charge  are not so much how the amount is apportioned, it's what our money is spent on. I'd like to hear from you that you've seen quotations and tenders for work or services that are variable and you are happy that we are getting the best - not necessarily the cheapest - and we are not getting ripped off with someone's second cousin once removed doing the maintenance (or not as the case may be). It would be even better if the budget was published in summary form for all owners to see, but I'd be content to know that you'd approved the way our money is being used. Can you also tell us what the Administrator costs? Is this standard for all administrators irrespective of what they do?

Regards
Irene