Spanish bull fighting

I personally don't like any sport?? that involves cruelty to  animals but, and it is a big but,i feel it is down to the Spanish to sort it out.....i feel it will fade out in some areas very soon and many of the new generation of Spainiards are against this tradition.

I chooose not to go to the Bullfights although i have been to an alternative where the young matadors are trained without any weapons,just a cape.

If immigrants come into any country,they should do with open eyes and respect the traditions,culture,religous views etc etc.......

If they don't we all know what happens.....i think one country in particular is a prime example.

Unfortunately some of us Brits come here and expect to Change things and still continuously moan about, the weather, (either too hot or too cold) siestas (why is everything closed when i want to go shopping?), why don't they speak English?!!, everything is so slow here!!! why are the Spanish so noisy?!!! and so on and so on...............

i would say that a good percentagerof Brits adapt very well but so many who purchased holiday homes here didn't concern themselves with the most important thing, the culture.

I remember a fantastic speech from the Australian prime minister......"this is our country and these are our rules, if you agree your more than welcome, if not, if your quick you might just catch the boat"!!!!

A standard sadly not followed by other countries.

As sanchez so rightly said.................

 Why did you buy a house in a country with such a "barbaric culture then?

Answers on a postcard please..........

I haven't posted on this sight for a while, but follow it on a daily basis.  I could not keep quiet any longer after reading this blog. 

We have a holiday home in Spain, mainly because of the wonderful climate, but we searched many other countries before we settled on Spain and it ticked so many other boxes too ie food, language, scenery, friendly people, history, only 21/2 hours from the UK etc etc. 

As far as bull fighting is concerned, it is barbaric - end of.  I am not a vegetarian, I love meat and eat beef, but I  do not agree with making it a 'sport' to torture an animal to death.  I know this is a long-standing tradition in Spain, but just because something is 'tradition', it does not make it right.

Just because I am a foreigner, I still have every right to oppose something that is affecting the vulnerable in this world.  Would you say nothing if you knew a child were being mis-treated, just because you were frightened it was none of your business or 'the way it is done here', wherever you were in the world?

One of my favourite sayings is: 'All it takes for evil to flourish in the world is for good men to stand by and do nothing.'

I don't agree with people who move to a foreign country and expect the laws to be changed to suit their own customs but I don't think that something that involves cruelty can be catagorised that way. 

 I don't think we can categorize Bull fighting with Child abuse really............

There are many lababoratories in the UK that continue daily monstrosities so that ladies can have the latest shade of lipstick and other cosmetic indulgencies......

There are numerous atrocities against animals commited everyday in the UK and other countries.

You could travel the world trying to right Genecide,child expoitation and abuse, rape,honour killings etc etc etc before you worked your way down to bull fighting.

Two vastly different subjects.

It doesn't make it right! Whichever country it happens in.

It doesn't make it right.......whichever country it happens in!

I agree with what Goodstich44 said on page 1 about bullfighting. It's cruel and inhumane, just as foxhunting, dock and cock fighting are/were in the United Kingdom. There are people who argue it is a Spanish tradition, and yes it is, one that should be in the past, just as it is vital the United Kingdom fights to keep foxhunting in it's past. There are many traditions in any culture, and the best of them can be cherished and preserved, whilst the cruel and barbaric ones - which all cultures have- can be left behind. I should point out that Egypt banned female genital mutilation, much to the dismay of "traditionalists".

Spain doesn't need buillfighting to have a strong link to it's own cultural traditions, anymore than the UK needs fox hunting, or the US needs game hunting.

Sanchez1: Becuase you live in a state doens't mean you have to agree with everything that state does. I chose to live in the UK (I moved here in 2002) because when I moved here it was a good move for me, in terms of career, educated and life choices, not because I looked at the warmongering and not so vaguely racist undertones and said "I endorse that, lets do more of it!". Does that mean I should "go back where I came from"?

Dartboy: Showing me some of the things I object to about the UK. "They" just aren't as civilized as "us", that's the problem, right?! *headdesk*

Well said Fultond  Oh let's just let certain members think they're right. It makes them happy.

Just because many of us enjoy Spain does NOT mean we have to agree with every last thing about the country, ill treatment of animals such as bull fighting & hanging greyhounds from trees after the hunting year so hunters won't need to feed them.

Tina, a member on EOS helps run a refuge near Murcia ... Los Infiernos Dog refuge ... that regularly takes in greyhounds that have been found hung up ALIVE by hunters, after the hunting season ends, so they won't need to feed them. They're left to suffer. Think they don't? Read this & stomach the photos! That's OK too, IS IT.  That's considered ok by many too. It's SICKENING!

I'm taking myself off watching this thread, it's not decent!

Just because many of us enjoy Spain does NOT mean we have to agree with every last thing about the country, ill treatment of animals such as bull fighting & hanging greyhounds from trees after the hunting year so hunters won't need to feed them.

But you called Spain a "barbaric culture" and yet you still decide to live/holiday in a barbaric culture.  I think that shows a lack of respect and a total misunderstanding of the Spanish people personally.

Sanchez1

on the contrary!  If you accept that barbaric and cruel practice is wrong, human or animal, then you have respect for what is right. You can still have an understanding of the people, and hope that education will open their eyes to cruelty and and suffering, which is what is happening slowly. Why on earth would you respect cruelty and suffering or corruption for that matter just because it's the tradition or culture of that country?  Thanks to the work of some fantastic people, many abuses (often called traditions or culture) of human and animals all over the world have been recognised as cowardly acts of sick people and dealt with accordingly.

I believe wrong is wrong on some issues however you dress it up or turn your back on it.  You choose if you want to see it?

"There will always be those who agree with barbaric cultures"

Thank you for calling my country barbaric. One thing is that people don't agree with treating bulls the way they are treated in bullfights but something very different is generalising about a country like that. I spent 10 years in the UK and never slagged it off like this cos it gave me a husband, job, family and friends. I hope people remember there are Spaniards reading these threads.

Ta

Whoaaah..calm down Nati  ;O)

Sanchez.. see what you've started now! .. when you state "You either "get" Spain or you don't. You can't change it.  You take it or you leave it."  I think (but it's only an opinion) you may be getting a bit mixed up with our (uk) common phrase " when in Rome do as the Romans do"

In other words no-one from outside spain (in my opinion) has any right to ban something such as bull-fighting (for example), however they DO have a right (freedom of speech) to express distaste (or whatever) or perhaps the ulimate statement would be simply never to support it (i.e. by paying to watch it).

What you seem to be suggesting is if we don't agree with everything then we shouldn't go there?

Nati

I understand where you are coming from on this.  When we criticise something because it's cruel or barbaric, our first thoughts are for the victims of the cruelty, but that can come across as insulting to a whole population, when in fact many people in that country often feel the same way as we do, but old traditions and cultures can be very much part of the fibre of the country, so are very resistant to change. I would think every country in the world has barbaric practice of some sort in the name of entertainment for humans, but as long as we recognise it for what it really is and do what we can to bring it to an end, then hopefully much suffering in the name of entertainment/tradition/culture will come to an end?

growler

I think you are right about this, the best way to stop cruelty is for people to vote with their feet. If no money was forthcoming from the suffering then I think most of it would soon stop!

Justice for the bull? Read about it & see incriminating video here.

A judge is to investigate the death of young bull in the Alhaurín el Grande fiestas.The young bull was tormented which eventually resulted in its death at a fiesta. This highlights what is going on at some fiestas. Lets hope the judge treats the people accordingly

There has been widespread outcry following the placing of a video of the abuse on the internet

Court 2 in Coín is to investigate the death during the local fiestas in Alhaurín el Grande, Málaga, on May 30.

A statement from the court said that the evidence ‘presents characteristics which show the possible existence of a penal infraction’.

The animal rights organisation, El Refugio, has placed a denuncia in the case after the regional Government also said that it was opening a file.

Six youngsters were identified by a video, placed on the internet, shown to be beating and abusing the animal. One of the six who have been released by the Guardia Civil after statements were taken is aged just 14.


 

morerosado

I think (hope?) bullfighting and related cruelty is being seen for what it is, but as it's it's a long and proud tradition of Spain's, it will probably take another generation or more to revolt the majority?

long and proud tradition of Spain's

Much like smoking then, goodstich?  (I am not going back into the smoking/not smoking thread. )

 No Bullring in Algorfa for the fiesta again this year.......

morerosado

no, nor me. When a sensible discussion is reduced to toddler talk, it's a waste of time.

I don't agree with bullfighting but I don't have the right to inflict my views on the Spanish.  I wouldn't go to a bullfight and that is as far as my protest would go.  However, what I do think is unfair is when the bull gets the better of the bullfighter it is still killed.  Surely if the bull wins he should get the glory not the sword?

orda

I would guess the suffering endured by the terrible wounds and mental trauma would probably make it kinder to kill the bull anyway?  What mental or phisical state is it left in? Having said that, if anyone considered the bull's suffering, I don't think they could support the hideous cruelty involved anyway?

True, good point, but it would be nice to see a bull on Sky News trotting round the arena with a garland of flowers round its neck and all the ladies throwing their knickers at him LOL.

oh yes, now I would pay to watch that!!

 Bullfighting banned in Catalonia from 2012.

Mark

Good for them. Hopefully people all over Spain will start to vote with their feet, by considering the animal's suffering for their pleasure??, and not support this hideous cruelty for much longer.

Or will these pimped up so-called toreadors just go to a province that will still allow this disgusting spectacle.

Remember, they are paid tremendous amounts of money to torment and finally kill an animal that has been severely weakened by picadors long before this "movie star" makes his entrance!!

I know I am a guest in this wonderful country and am very pleased and proud to be allowed to live here.

I try to respect all things Spanish but this is the 21st century, not the dark ages!! Brings to mind the Iranian woman who was going to be stoned to death for adultery. I think she is still going to die but by a different method! Dark ages again!!

The biggest problem is, as I see it, what can be done to replace the lost revenue that bull fighting created?

They have until 2012 to sort it out, of course.

I'm just waiting for some posh campo jerk to start complaining that the countryside will become overrun with vermin bulls - it won't be long before the headlines will be reporting some baby has been mauled in its cot by a bull and that bullfighting must be reintroduced to keep the menace at bay.

Well done, Cataluña!

I am pleased to report that one of my Spanish facebook friends, Irene (who runs 4 Patas the local animal refuge), has posted the news on her facebook page, and her Spanish friends are supporting the idea that this decision should be the way forward for other Spanish regions. It's not just the Brits in Spain who want to see the end of bullfighting.

Sue

suemac

that's so good to hear. Once it becomes accepted that it is nothing more than barbaric cruelty, dressed up in fancy dress and tradition, then hopefully the end will be in sight?

Roberto

love your bit about 'some posh campo jerk'.  So true. I was also waiting for some knob- head to come along and try and defend Bull fighting or Fox hunting with feeble reasons masking a blood lust from selfish people with no feeling for animal suffering. I fear many of those sorts will try and reverse the Fox hunting issue in the UK, and sadly  have the support from many Tory MP's. Hopefully public opinion against cruel sports in the UK is growing as with the Bull fighting in Spain.?

At least the fighting toros live in the wild for at least 4 years never bothered by human been,not injected with vitamins,antibiotics,force fed and living in lots like their brothers which are sent to the abatoirs and have never a chance to survive.By the way their life end after 2 years.Barcelona has only one bullring left and have only 15 bn llfights a year  out of a 1000 in the whole of Spain .A political statement by their parlement.

Viva Cape town

viva cape town

a good point, and I think most people want animals killed for food to be given as good a life as is possible before being slaugtered. The sales of free range chickens and eggs for instance proves that point, though I would love to see it become compulsery, and wouldn't mind paying a bit more if I knew the animal had had a better life, short though it is.  Having said that, I don't feel the  point that we could do better justifies the cruelty and suffering involved with blood sports, and it just shows humans as horrific bullies, making creatures suffer purely for our enjoyment. I don't think that can ever be right.