Spanish bull fighting

I tend more towards the posting of Sanchez1

We have been to our local ring. It'a a fantastic spectacle and insight into "old'' Spanish traditions. Wouldn't necassarily go again ..

Especially as

 " in this day and age I see it as a direct reflection of the bloodthirsty saddo's who sit and pay to watch it.. ''

Lucky i've got the hide as thick as a .............

people in general seem to be getting more barbaric as time goes on what with the rise in cage fighting  and all the new kick boxing tournaments that seem to be growing in popularity maybe its just among the types who also enjoy dog fighting, its on the increase since we joined the EU and the eastern eupeans have come over in numbers,maybe britain was a more civillised place before and with the mix of people we are being dragged back in time,soon we might have armed robbers using bow and arrows.

My wife owns a care agency and we work in some ruff areas that have a high mix of cultures and violence seems to be a way of life for them. We employ sumilean(sp) girls and some of the stories about face gouging and stuff like that as punishment is just horrific and it happens here in our towns.I believe our children mixing with these people who have come from places with such violence that they are descensatized to it is what helps to breed young violent offenders in our communities and its only going to get worse.

As for the Bulls they don't stand a chance and any unfair fight in my book is one that shouldn't take place

Sanchez, personally I think some people have a wierd idea of being 'entertained'.  Pity the bulls can't take it or leave it! There will always be those who agree with barbaric cultures. This topic has been flogged to death time & again on EOS over the years I've been a member. Recently there was a thread about people running & leaping over a group of tiny babies. As  long as we are 'entertained' THAT'S ok then!

Goodstich, I remember we (I'm sure it was you & I) had quite a discussion about female circumcision, didn't we, many moons ago. We felt the same, it's unacceptable. If I was to copy & paste details of some of what is still done to girls from the age of 3 you'd squirm & puke or you should!

Growler, for you & me!

Sanchez, personally I think some people have a wierd idea of being 'entertained'.  Pity the bulls can't take it or leave it! There will always be those who agree with barbaric cultures.... Recently there was a thread about people running & leaping over a group of tiny babies

Why did you buy a house in a country with such a "barbaric culture then?

The bullfighting, jumping over babies and other daftness, fiestas, the sense of freedom, the lack of nanny state and political correctness etc are the reason why I moved to Spain.  It wasn't just for the sun.  Spain would be a dull country without all this, and not one I'd like to live in.

You either "get" Spain or you don't. You can't change it.  You take it or you leave it.

You either "get" Spain or you don't. You can't change it.  You take it or you leave it.

Sanchez, I think you are wrong. You could say exactly the same about any country, but most countries over the years DO change laws and practices to protect the vulnerable. Using your logic we should just accept that there are corrupt developers, agents, lawyers and judges; accept our losses and get on with life!

I personally don't like any sport?? that involves cruelty to  animals but, and it is a big but,i feel it is down to the Spanish to sort it out.....i feel it will fade out in some areas very soon and many of the new generation of Spainiards are against this tradition.

I chooose not to go to the Bullfights although i have been to an alternative where the young matadors are trained without any weapons,just a cape.

If immigrants come into any country,they should do with open eyes and respect the traditions,culture,religous views etc etc.......

If they don't we all know what happens.....i think one country in particular is a prime example.

Unfortunately some of us Brits come here and expect to Change things and still continuously moan about, the weather, (either too hot or too cold) siestas (why is everything closed when i want to go shopping?), why don't they speak English?!!, everything is so slow here!!! why are the Spanish so noisy?!!! and so on and so on...............

i would say that a good percentagerof Brits adapt very well but so many who purchased holiday homes here didn't concern themselves with the most important thing, the culture.

I remember a fantastic speech from the Australian prime minister......"this is our country and these are our rules, if you agree your more than welcome, if not, if your quick you might just catch the boat"!!!!

A standard sadly not followed by other countries.

As sanchez so rightly said.................

 Why did you buy a house in a country with such a "barbaric culture then?

Answers on a postcard please..........

I haven't posted on this sight for a while, but follow it on a daily basis.  I could not keep quiet any longer after reading this blog. 

We have a holiday home in Spain, mainly because of the wonderful climate, but we searched many other countries before we settled on Spain and it ticked so many other boxes too ie food, language, scenery, friendly people, history, only 21/2 hours from the UK etc etc. 

As far as bull fighting is concerned, it is barbaric - end of.  I am not a vegetarian, I love meat and eat beef, but I  do not agree with making it a 'sport' to torture an animal to death.  I know this is a long-standing tradition in Spain, but just because something is 'tradition', it does not make it right.

Just because I am a foreigner, I still have every right to oppose something that is affecting the vulnerable in this world.  Would you say nothing if you knew a child were being mis-treated, just because you were frightened it was none of your business or 'the way it is done here', wherever you were in the world?

One of my favourite sayings is: 'All it takes for evil to flourish in the world is for good men to stand by and do nothing.'

I don't agree with people who move to a foreign country and expect the laws to be changed to suit their own customs but I don't think that something that involves cruelty can be catagorised that way. 

 I don't think we can categorize Bull fighting with Child abuse really............

There are many lababoratories in the UK that continue daily monstrosities so that ladies can have the latest shade of lipstick and other cosmetic indulgencies......

There are numerous atrocities against animals commited everyday in the UK and other countries.

You could travel the world trying to right Genecide,child expoitation and abuse, rape,honour killings etc etc etc before you worked your way down to bull fighting.

Two vastly different subjects.

It doesn't make it right! Whichever country it happens in.

It doesn't make it right.......whichever country it happens in!

I agree with what Goodstich44 said on page 1 about bullfighting. It's cruel and inhumane, just as foxhunting, dock and cock fighting are/were in the United Kingdom. There are people who argue it is a Spanish tradition, and yes it is, one that should be in the past, just as it is vital the United Kingdom fights to keep foxhunting in it's past. There are many traditions in any culture, and the best of them can be cherished and preserved, whilst the cruel and barbaric ones - which all cultures have- can be left behind. I should point out that Egypt banned female genital mutilation, much to the dismay of "traditionalists".

Spain doesn't need buillfighting to have a strong link to it's own cultural traditions, anymore than the UK needs fox hunting, or the US needs game hunting.

Sanchez1: Becuase you live in a state doens't mean you have to agree with everything that state does. I chose to live in the UK (I moved here in 2002) because when I moved here it was a good move for me, in terms of career, educated and life choices, not because I looked at the warmongering and not so vaguely racist undertones and said "I endorse that, lets do more of it!". Does that mean I should "go back where I came from"?

Dartboy: Showing me some of the things I object to about the UK. "They" just aren't as civilized as "us", that's the problem, right?! *headdesk*

Well said Fultond  Oh let's just let certain members think they're right. It makes them happy.

Just because many of us enjoy Spain does NOT mean we have to agree with every last thing about the country, ill treatment of animals such as bull fighting & hanging greyhounds from trees after the hunting year so hunters won't need to feed them.

Tina, a member on EOS helps run a refuge near Murcia ... Los Infiernos Dog refuge ... that regularly takes in greyhounds that have been found hung up ALIVE by hunters, after the hunting season ends, so they won't need to feed them. They're left to suffer. Think they don't? Read this & stomach the photos! That's OK too, IS IT.  That's considered ok by many too. It's SICKENING!

I'm taking myself off watching this thread, it's not decent!

Just because many of us enjoy Spain does NOT mean we have to agree with every last thing about the country, ill treatment of animals such as bull fighting & hanging greyhounds from trees after the hunting year so hunters won't need to feed them.

But you called Spain a "barbaric culture" and yet you still decide to live/holiday in a barbaric culture.  I think that shows a lack of respect and a total misunderstanding of the Spanish people personally.

Sanchez1

on the contrary!  If you accept that barbaric and cruel practice is wrong, human or animal, then you have respect for what is right. You can still have an understanding of the people, and hope that education will open their eyes to cruelty and and suffering, which is what is happening slowly. Why on earth would you respect cruelty and suffering or corruption for that matter just because it's the tradition or culture of that country?  Thanks to the work of some fantastic people, many abuses (often called traditions or culture) of human and animals all over the world have been recognised as cowardly acts of sick people and dealt with accordingly.

I believe wrong is wrong on some issues however you dress it up or turn your back on it.  You choose if you want to see it?

"There will always be those who agree with barbaric cultures"

Thank you for calling my country barbaric. One thing is that people don't agree with treating bulls the way they are treated in bullfights but something very different is generalising about a country like that. I spent 10 years in the UK and never slagged it off like this cos it gave me a husband, job, family and friends. I hope people remember there are Spaniards reading these threads.

Ta

Whoaaah..calm down Nati  ;O)

Sanchez.. see what you've started now! .. when you state "You either "get" Spain or you don't. You can't change it.  You take it or you leave it."  I think (but it's only an opinion) you may be getting a bit mixed up with our (uk) common phrase " when in Rome do as the Romans do"

In other words no-one from outside spain (in my opinion) has any right to ban something such as bull-fighting (for example), however they DO have a right (freedom of speech) to express distaste (or whatever) or perhaps the ulimate statement would be simply never to support it (i.e. by paying to watch it).

What you seem to be suggesting is if we don't agree with everything then we shouldn't go there?

Nati

I understand where you are coming from on this.  When we criticise something because it's cruel or barbaric, our first thoughts are for the victims of the cruelty, but that can come across as insulting to a whole population, when in fact many people in that country often feel the same way as we do, but old traditions and cultures can be very much part of the fibre of the country, so are very resistant to change. I would think every country in the world has barbaric practice of some sort in the name of entertainment for humans, but as long as we recognise it for what it really is and do what we can to bring it to an end, then hopefully much suffering in the name of entertainment/tradition/culture will come to an end?

growler

I think you are right about this, the best way to stop cruelty is for people to vote with their feet. If no money was forthcoming from the suffering then I think most of it would soon stop!

Justice for the bull? Read about it & see incriminating video here.

A judge is to investigate the death of young bull in the Alhaurín el Grande fiestas.The young bull was tormented which eventually resulted in its death at a fiesta. This highlights what is going on at some fiestas. Lets hope the judge treats the people accordingly

There has been widespread outcry following the placing of a video of the abuse on the internet

Court 2 in Coín is to investigate the death during the local fiestas in Alhaurín el Grande, Málaga, on May 30.

A statement from the court said that the evidence ‘presents characteristics which show the possible existence of a penal infraction’.

The animal rights organisation, El Refugio, has placed a denuncia in the case after the regional Government also said that it was opening a file.

Six youngsters were identified by a video, placed on the internet, shown to be beating and abusing the animal. One of the six who have been released by the Guardia Civil after statements were taken is aged just 14.


 

morerosado

I think (hope?) bullfighting and related cruelty is being seen for what it is, but as it's it's a long and proud tradition of Spain's, it will probably take another generation or more to revolt the majority?

long and proud tradition of Spain's

Much like smoking then, goodstich?  (I am not going back into the smoking/not smoking thread. )