Small 8 property comunidad.

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27 Mar 2018 22:40 by Skyethedog Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

We are a small 8 apartment comunidad with no amenities or common ground apart from the car park. Can anyone advise me on the cost of an administrator for such a small complex. 

We currently have 2 co-presidents who own 3/8 of the complex and no administrator. Can a comunidad have co-presidents as opposed to a President and a Vice President? 

Thank you.

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28 Mar 2018 11:50 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4536 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

Have you asked any local administrators for quotes? It's not difficult to do so. As a rough guess (but that's all it is because I'm not an administrator so can only guess) I would expect it to cost less than €100 a month. 

I don't think on paper you can have more than one official president - although I don't know for certain the legality of it. But in practice, if you have a president and co (or vice) -president who are running things, including the admin side, is there a good reason to rock the boat?



"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain




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28 Mar 2018 19:30 by Skyethedog Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

Thank you Roberto - and in theory you are absolutely right. Why rock the boat when the administration of the comunidad  is being run for free.  But sadly there is a need to 'rock the boat' as the co- presidents constantly make decisions and spend our money many times without consultation wth the owners first. And the owners often disagree with those decisions after the event has happened and the money spent. This has been raised before at an AGM and I guess will have to be raised again next year - as this is not strictly their role. Hence the question- can we lose the co-president without voting another one in, thus giving them less control. An administrator would also alleviate the problem, but as you so rightly say, in such a small community it is a lot of money when we should be able to manage without one. The presidents wife used to take the minutes, and they were never accurate and when challenged, were never changed and often we did not get them untill the next AGM. But now I have insisted that I do the minutes and these are circulated within 7 days, and in all languages, so at least now anything raised at the meeting and voted on will legally get recorded and have to be addressed or acted on. I will think on and make sure at the next AGM the issues are raised in a way that will bring about change. I will try and access an administrator who will know about the legality of co-presidents. Thank you again. 

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29 Mar 2018 23:43 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4536 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

A couple of points:

You say you are a small community "with no amenities or common ground apart from the car park". (No lift? A cleaner for common parts?) I wonder what exactly, therefore, these presidents are spending the money on? And more to the point, what money? Do you not set an annual budget at the AGM? Are your contributions not based on this projected budget? Are they spending more than you budgeted for, without prior agreement?

As for the decisions on how to use the community funds being "not strictly their role", I'm not entirely sure I agree with that statement. Assuming that there is in fact an agreed budget, I think legally it is the responsibility of the elected officials to oversea the expenditure of community funds; an independent administrator (i.e. not an owner in the community) may alleviate the "problem" to a certain extent, but ultimately any administrator is basically an employee of the community, and will have to take instructions from the president, rather than the other way round.

Losing, as you say, the co-president (and presumably continuing with just the one president) surely won't really change much? If these two are in cahoots, removing the official title from one of them is unlikely to make any significant difference in practice. I don't quite follow how this will give them less control.

Another point, regarding the minutes: if I remember rightly, for them to have any legal validity, they have to be recorded in a book of minutes and officially registered. A qualified adminstrator will be able to advise you on this and other aspects of community law etc. Why not try to speak to a couple, get some quotes, and pick their brains a bit on yor specific concerns and issues, and take it from there.

And finally, what do the other (four?) owners think about the current situation? Do you have any support for the kind of change that you hope for - or just the usual apathy and reluctance to get involved? Because if that is the case, I fear you may be orinando en el viento, so to speak.

I hope my idle thoughts on the matter may help a little.

Good luck. wink



"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain




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30 Mar 2018 19:21 by Skyethedog Star rating. 3 posts Send private message

Thank you again. And yes we have an agreed budget with no debtors. However I was under the impression from what I have read about the role of presidents, that they are the owners legal representative, and that he could only spend money from that budget with the owners permission. And yes there are regular outgoings each year  which are agreed on an annual basis. But when it comes to large more complex, individual single issues that require large sums of money - I thought he had to consult with the owners and could only go ahead with a majority vote. But he investigates a problem and make his own judgment and implements it without any notification to the owners until after the event. In certain cases he has had to return a situation to the status quo, because when the owners found out - they disagreed with what he had done. So not only money spent to implement something, but more money spent to remove it. 2000 euros wasted. He has spent great sums of money over the last two years on a problem with our pozo, doing as he thought best - no consultation - but he got it wrong! More than once! And after spending all this money, the pozo was still functioning no better. It was only after I insisted at the latest AGM on getting an expert in and being present with other owners at the consultation - that hopefully the pozo is now sorted. But another 1000 euros. He had already spent 2000 euros getting it wrong. I understand that in an emergency he might have to make a decision on our behalf. However - there are only 7 owners, all accessible by email even when not in residence. 

Three other owners are like me are equally concerned, but being as the co-presidents constitute 3 votes and another is an elderly Spanish lady who would do as she is told by the president - the best result we would ever get is 4-4.Can you help with how I could word an item to go on the agenda for the AGM next year, that would stop him spending in this way without consultation, one that we could vote on.

Thank you  



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31 Mar 2018 00:20 by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4536 posts Send private message

Roberto´s avatar

I'm surprised that such a small community, with very few shared elements, has enough money in the kitty for the president to spend on things that weren't actually included in the budget. Perhaps one solution to propose would be keeping only the annual budget for known expenses in the main bank account, and opening a second account for any surplus (reserve) funds to be kept in - and which needs a second signature (not the co-president!)

think I'm right in saying the co-president who owns two properties actually only has one vote. According to the Horizontal Law, "resolutions shall be adopted with the vote of a majority of the total number of unit owners
representing a majority of the assessment quotas." So although his total quota may add up to more than yours, with only one vote he and his cohort won't necessarily have the majority of the total number of owners (he is only one owner). Hope that makes sense, but do check this with a qualified administrator rather than take my word for it!

The other option of course is to put yourself forward as president at the next AGM - you may just get elected; but think very carefully before taking on the responsibility!!



"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

Mark Twain




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