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Mirador Linked Villas Phase 1 forum threads
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26 Sep 2007 12:00 AM by digger123 Star rating. 13 forum posts Send private message

Thats it I have a bloody tits full of the crap coming out of Palmera, See below of the emails that have been banded back and forth between me and Palmera, Only today they have given me mixed messages, I am now seeking legal advice and I am going to take both companies to Court, I suggest others do the same.

Regards

 

Nick

Good morning,
 
On one hand, the developer is telling us that completion will take place soon.
 
On the other hand we have had a phone call from Palmera Properties to advise our lawyer´s office that all clients buying from Grupo Mirador, to please log on to www.palmeraproperties.com and click on News.
There are apparantly certain problems with Grupo Mirador and Palmera Properties are dealing with. All the information they know is on this website.
 
Kind regards,
 
Elena Frías.
Completions Department.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: mirador villa

completion date please


-----Original Message-----
From: COMPLETIONS <completions@palmeraproperties.com>
To: gbwilts@aol.com
Sent: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 9.16am
Subject: Re: mirador villa

Good morning,
 
We called the developer last week, much to our surprise we were able to speak to someone, who advised us they still don´t have a signing date. We were advised to call back mid-September to try and get a clearer picture of when signings could possibly take place. Having said this, we are always told the same kind of thing.
I am agraid I can only pass on the information they give me.
Do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries or concerns.
 
Kind Regards,
 
Elena Frías
Completions Department
 
C/ MAESTRANZA
EDIFICIO 12, ATICO A
29016
MÁLAGA
ESPAÑA
 
T: 0034 952 219 871
F: 0034 952 225 048
e-mail: completions@palmeraproperties.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: mirador villa

Good Afternoon

Well August shut down is now over, So can I now have a completion date for my Villa plot 60a.
Mirador linked Villa at fuente de piedra.

Your earliest response will be much appriciated

Regards

Nick



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26 Sep 2007 3:14 PM by alpet Star rating. 25 forum posts Send private message

alpet´s avatar

From the Palmera site:

'Palmera Properties informs its clients. We have taken criminal charge for fraud against Grupo Mirador. As soon as the criminal charge is accepted by the corresponding judge, we will publish the details of the same and will inform our clients of form and method of joining in the legal proceedings. 'I gave up on Palmera years ago and the idea that they would have done anything  without all the bad press is laughable.  Nevertheless the houses are finished at Fuente bar some fittings but there has been no licence of first habitation granted as yet so the houses cannot legally be sold.  My solicitor has had no communication from Mirador whatsoever so we are now waiting for them to make contact before taking any action.  Has anyone reading this any further dealings with Mirador or know if they have applied for the habitation licence???




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26 Sep 2007 3:50 PM by digger123 Star rating. 13 forum posts Send private message

Hi Alpet

 

Please read below the emails that have be going on today between me and the Completion department acting for Palmera, I have had more communication in the last 24 hours than the last 4 years, I have now contacted a solicitor in spain to see what my options are, All I want is what is rightfully mine, Please read from bottom to top.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

Dear Mr Wiltshire,
 
When we tell you "next week or next month" we are informing you of exactly what the developer tell us, obviously, we will not invent information and can only rely on that which the developer gives us. 
 
Palmera Properties has its own lawyer specially for the Gurpo Mirador problem and that is why we are not holding the whole information, when we contact Palmera Properties, they ask us to look at their web page to get any information, so all we know is exactly the same as you do.
 
When we call the developer, they tell us that the signing is going to be "very soon" as usual, they always say the same thing, but what can we do if they do not tell us another thing?
 
I personally have argued with them in many ocassions telling them that I want to hear something different, but they keep telling me the same thing again!
 
Belive it or not, this situation is very frustrating for us as well, because we also need answers that we never get.
 
Do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries or concerns.
 
Kind Regards
 
Rocío Frías
 
Gomez de la Cruz & Puertas Lawyers.
Completions Department
C/ Maestranza, 12 Ático-A.
Málaga 29016
Spain.
 
T: 0034 952 219 871
F: 0034 952 225 048
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: mirador villa


we are a lawyer´s office that work for Palmera.

As you say above you work for Palmera, So I repeat as I am considering legal action against not only Mirador But Palmera Properties aswell, There would be a conflict of interests.

Palmera have done little for me over the past 5 years bar take a large sum of Money (deposit),
Why would I assume they are now going to work on "My behalf, When it is I and other clients alike that have to contact you for information, To be told, Next week,next month,etc etc.

My Wiltshire


-----Original Message-----
From: COMPLETIONS <completions@palmeraproperties.com>
To: gbwilts@aol.com
Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 1.14pm
Subject: Re: mirador villa

We are not Palmera Properties, we are a lawyer´s office that work for Palmera. There certainly would not be a conflict of interests as you put it. It is actually Palmera Properties that ARE taking legal action against Grupo Mirador.
 
In any case, our interests are the same, to look after our clients. This is why legal action has been taken.
Finally, sales and re-sales are dealt with by Palmera Properties and not the lawyer´s office. If we have said that Completion was close, we were only passing information from the developer to the Client, which is our job to do and were NOT aware of the problems with Grupo Mirador.
Elena Frías
Completions Department
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: mirador villa

Thankyou for your reply,

However I must inform you after taking independant advice I have been informed of the liability your company (palmera properties) may have as agents for Mirador group, So I have been given another solicitor who will obviously not have a conflict of interests,
 
I will only stop this action should you as a company acting on my behalf finally get Mirador to draw up the contract for the purchase of what is now a 5 year night mare!
 
If you check your records you will see that around this time last year You instructed me to take my Villa off the resale market as Completion was to close for me to re sell to a third party.
 
A year later and I am hearing no different.
 
My solicitor will no doubt be in touch.
 
Nick Wiltshire


-----Original Message-----
From: COMPLETIONS <completions@palmeraproperties.com>
To: gbwilts@aol.com
Sent: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12.41pm
Subject: Re: mirador villa

Dear Client,
 
As our lawyer is out of the office for the rest of the week, I would like to ask you to please e-mail her so she can contact you next week. In your e-mail, please specify exactly what you would like her to do. Her name is Maricruz Puertas and her e-mail address is mcruz@activanet.es
 
When you speak to her on the phone, please bear in mind that her English is not great, and if needbe one of us will act as a translator when necessary. Therefore it is important that you specify in your e-mail clearly as much information as possible.
 
Regards,
 
Elena Frías
Completions Department.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: mirador villa

CAN SO ONE PLEASE CONTACT ME FROM YOUR LEGAL DEPT AS i WISH TO TAKE LEGAL ACTIONS AGAINST MIRADOR AS I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT COMPLETION IS CLOSE, I HAVE BEEN WAITING 5 YEARS FOR THIS VILLA WHICH SHOULD OF BEEN COMPLETED BACK IN 2004,

THIS IS SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH,



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26 Sep 2007 6:14 PM by alpet Star rating. 25 forum posts Send private message

alpet´s avatar

Hi Digger, 

There cannot be anyone buying on this development that is anything but disillusioned with Palmera and Mirador after this 5 year debacle.  The houses are currently making money for no-one however whilst standing empty.  I assume that Mirador will pay back deposits + 6% pa when they are forced to by the courts and then still sell the houses we have paid for them to build at a profit afterwards.  Indeed this kind of thing appears to be common in Spain. There is always the danger that the company could go bust after the latest revelations in the national press however.  What would happen then is anyone’s guess.  The best possible outcome in the short term for most of us is to get the keys to our promised properties and fight in the courts afterwards. Since there seems to be no imminent end to this saga neither those who want the houses or those fed up and taking court action are likely to be satisfied anytime soon.

Best open another bottle of Vino Calapso !!!

 




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26 Sep 2007 6:39 PM by ricko Star rating. 2 forum posts Send private message

Hello all !! Been watching the Mirador forum for a good couple of years now. Decided to make my first input as things seem to be ready to explode. Being in the same situation as everybody else, ie getting nowhere, I started dealing with Mirador direct and got to the point that they sent me a contract which obviously includede me paying the 'extra' package, but seemed to commit them to completing between 6 months and a year. PPs Completion Dept even arranged for the bank to value the house based on the bank receiving the 'end of works certificate'. This was required as I wanted the extra 12000 euros added onto the mortgage. well at least it looked as if i was going somewhere despite being ripped off !!! However, i have been advised by PP and an independent solicitor to sign nothing but to instead join in on the criminal action against Mirador (pp advice) and also against PP (solicitor advice). How much money am I prepared to keep throwing at this ???!! No more, is the answer. Maybe signing the contract and completing for an inflated price might be better than the alternative which is Miradors bankruptcy, re-emergence under a different name, then selling on the houses including our accrued equity !!! we then end up with nothing Maybe we should get more organised as a group - there must be enough of us !!!! P.s If you want to feel better about yourselves ive got an apartment off plan with Mirador at benalmedena (La Perla) and thats a bigger joke than this one !! Any views on the options would be welcomed


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26 Sep 2007 11:53 PM by allthepall Star rating. 26 forum posts Send private message

I received an email from Mirador today; they say the licence inspection is 95% completed
And completions should start in the next 2 to 3 weeks.
Are you all aware that there is a 15-day clause in the contract that says we must complete within 15 days after notice to do so from Mirador.I know Mirador have failed to keep there side of this contract but that doesn’t seem to matter in Spain.
I agree with Alpet that we should sign for the property get the keys and then take them to task afterwards.
If we do not sign within the 15 days they have the right to cancel the contract and sell the property on, they do not have refund us anything at all as we would be in breach of contract.
I know the extras costs have to be found and should not be there but in the scheme of things it is a drop in the sea, The only people that stand to gain anything out of this situation is the solicitors who will make a packet we stand to end the fight with nothing but a large solicitors fee. I also believe there are some solicitors in Spain that are like loose cannons
If Mirador sell the property on then at end of the fighting nothing will get it back for us we could just get our deposit back if we were lucky. We need to remember that to buy now would be nearly double the issue cost when they were first sold



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27 Sep 2007 2:36 PM by alpet Star rating. 25 forum posts Send private message

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So the bad news is that we will soon have the opportunity to buy the houses at a vastly infalted price.  The even worse news is the pound has just hit a new low against the euro so when we convert it will be worth 5% less than a month ago.

Yet more vino calapso please!!!!




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27 Sep 2007 3:58 PM by allthepall Star rating. 26 forum posts Send private message

 

A BIRD IN THE HAND IS WORTH TWO IN A BUSH.




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28 Sep 2007 8:08 AM by digger123 Star rating. 13 forum posts Send private message

Hi Guys

 

Here is a letter I received today from a solicitor working for 10 clients in the same boat as us, I would like to arrange a trip to Palmera Properties in November probably the first week, If anyone is interrested in joining me for 2 or 3 days over there please contact me on gbwilts@aol.com I visited the site this time last year but just went to view the Villa, This time I am going to Palmera offices, And I think strengh in numbers may help, I will be flying around the 4th,5th or 6th of November,

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

Dear Mr. Wiltshire:

 

Many thanks for your mail.

 

I do understand and know the situation is getting worst day by day. Maybe you have been told about the last irregularities I have found in the case of Fuente de Piedra I.

 

The execution project of Phase I went lost (nobody in the Town Hall give any explanation about such strange circumstance). It was impossible to check it for some months until last July, when I received a letter from the Major giving me the opportunity to check it but forbidding me to copy it (something absolutely uncommon in Spanish Councils, because, according to Spanish Law, this project is public and any citizen has the right to get copy of it). The Town Hall ignores not only Law but the Andalucía Ombudsman, who I contacted with in order to informing him about the situation. He has requested the Town Hall to give me the copy but the Major does not pay any attention to him.

 

You know that these are only a part of the problem, there are more facts to bear in mind: the houses are showed as subsidised houses (VPO) in the contract but not in any other Public Office; the whole VAT (IVA, in Spanish) has been paid in advance by promissory note (not legal according to Spanish Law), no works finish date established in the contract; huge delay in the hand over, illegal, unfair and wrong clauses in the contract (house size, costs and expenses, notary selection…); no bank guarantees regarding the payments made in advance by the purchasers, obligatory comfort packages charged in 12.000 € plus VAT, land Registry arrest due to a serious debt (nearly 300.000 €) that Mirador holds with the Andalucía Tax Authorities; differences between the planning deposited at the Land Registry by the promoter to ask for the building license, the planning given by Palmera Properties to the clients and the houses that Mirador have actually built (without garage); the private swimming pool will be public (for the whole village of Fuente de Piedra); not helpful Fuente de Piedra Major Assistant and Architect and, in fact, a very important document has been “lost” there (execution project that is essential in order to grant the first occupancy license), the lost project has been found only two months ago but they did not permit me to make any copy of them; useless Palmera Properties customer service which is responsible for their lack of helping.

 

Regarding Phase II, all of my clients paid money (up to 88.000 €) three and four years ago but they have not received even a private contract, they do not have any new or info about the promotion, although they have try to know asking by fax, mail, letter and personally. The Town Hall has informed me Mirador has found archaeologist remaining and Andalucía Government has checked them for some months; after this checking, the promotion will not be with 140 houses because the remaining must be protected and only a third part of the houses will be built. Of course, the amounts paid by the buyers are not guarantee as Law requires, so it would be a big problem if something happen to Palmera or Mirador, the money will be reimbursed then.

 

About Villanueva del Rosario, the current Major (very active nature protector) is working against some illegal license that Mirador received by the former Major in order to build the promotions in that village. The former Major gave some irregular license to Mirador in order to build in green areas and near rivers, not considering Spanish Law, so some of the promotions are in great risk of not being built or being illegal.

 

In the case of La Perla, the buyers paid amounts since 2002 in order to purchase a nice apartment in Benalmadena. After some managements we have found out the promotion is not a apartment promotion but an hotel, something that is incredible to believe by my clients, a lovely couple  tired of waiting for their flat which it seems to be only a room in a hotel, with all the disgusting consequences of it.

 

For all these reasons, last August I served a criminal claim against Mirador and Palmera Properties on behalf of ten buyers in those promotions; after that, four buyers have decided to join us. The seriously and importance of all the irregularities detected and the risky situation made the criminal case the best to get the money plus cost and interest: we do know the economic situation of the companies can make a civil action get useless –it takes too much time- the best option is not the perfect one –criminal case against the boss and the companies itself- but it is the more recommendable way to act as soon as possible and try to get something about all this mess created by Mirador and Palmera Properties in your damage.

 

Besides that, I can tell you some weeks ago (Sunday 9th September) the new about that criminal claim was showed in a national wide newspaper (El País), explaining the irregularities Mirador and Palmera Properties has committed which have been denounced; you can find it in the online version of the paper (in Spanish):

 

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/andalucia/Todo/catalogo/anomalias/elpepuespand/20070909elpand_9/Tes

 

You can find another article about the criminal claim in this online bulletin (“El Observador”) that shows real state irregularities, frauds and problems similar to this one I are working in. The article has been published today:

 

http://www.airon60.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1024&Itemid=27

 

The boss of Mirador, Enrique Faura was interviewed by the newspaper. He insisted in everything is right and says again that the house was changed and is not VPO because the buyers asked for it. He explains they have not problems with nobody and they are always willing to have a good deal with the buyers.

 

All the facts we know very well about every case and every purchaser seem to be “nice and right” for him. Of course, he is not the one who cares and is concerned about passing years, huge amounts of money paid, no houses, no bank guarantees, illegal contracts, lost projects, arrests at the land registry, public swimming pools, no information, no garages, no tax info, unpaid promissory notes (and bank costs caused for it), no accountant info in the company registry, debts they owe to suppliers and every serious and irregular point we find in these promotions, in the “special way” both Mirador and Palmera are selling houses.

 

Only Mirador has contacted me, they have paid me the promissory notes that were bounced one year ago and they have made me an offer about some purchasers in Phase I. They try to improve the situation (for them, of course); they know this is the way for them, they make offers, they pay part of the debts, the matter is that the crimes have been made in any case –money can not change it- and there are a lot of problems in all the promotions that can not be solved only with money. It is clear and experience tells us, they only worry (maybe a little) about us when we take them to criminal court.

 

Given all the explanations I have just showed to you, I must tell you the matter is really difficult and all these details we have just know make it worst. Please, think that the situation in Phase I is neither legal nor clear and in the not likely case they sign the deed they are going to make it in an irregular way and charging you with costs that are not your responsibility according to Spanish Law (obligatory comfort-package, mortgage cancellation, municipal gain tax). Besides that, if the “dark” situation about VPO matter and the Town Hall continues and Mirador does not pay their debts, getting the house in a safe and legal way is going to be impossible.

 

 

 

Kind regards.

 




This message was last edited by digger123 on 9/28/2007.


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28 Sep 2007 4:59 PM by digger123 Star rating. 13 forum posts Send private message

Hi allthepaul

Like you I would love to think they are 95% closer to getting the 95% of there paper work done, But I think we are all living in la la land if like you have been told, "In the next couple of weeks",

 

Every letter from Palmera has the line "In the next couple of weeks"

 

There is a 95% more chance of me flying to Mars than the inspection complete in the next "COUPLE OF WEEKS"!!!

 

"COME ON PALMERA,PROVE ME WRONG,PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"




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29 Sep 2007 11:14 AM by wibbleypants Star rating. 32 forum posts Send private message

Howdy.

Is there any chance of a copy of that letter in Spanish? That sort of stuff doesn't translate well, so I'd understand it easier in spanish.

Gracias.

Paul.


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